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trainerlady

When is enough enough

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Ex-SPL son says after Scout 17 tied up the younger Scouts, he would have asked his SM to send 17 home, because that kid obviously has issues.

 

So if my 17 year old realizes this, your troop may have other problems.

 

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"BTW, we're hoping not to have to press charges against 17. "

 

Yep, just keep giving him that pass.

 

What needs to happen is that charges DO need to be made. No one else in your community is apparently willing to confront the problem. The result is a non-functional member of society who is probably headed for a lot of bad things down the road... *because no one is challenging him in the here and now*.

 

 

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Dealt with issues similar but it involved a church elders grandson.....fighting with other scouts......we ended up leaving the Pack over it......The DE did nothing after a fight that drew blood was reported....

 

 

That was the reason for my question.......

 

 

I think that the Troop leadership should suspend him for a number of weeks and outings, he should be removed from his POR....

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Yeah politics can play a role. We had a kid on staff I caught stealing at summer camp. He was sent home. B/C dad was on council exec board, he showed up the next week on staff. Luckily not in my area.

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Some of this behavior is downright dangerous. I wonder what the local laws have to say about responsible adults being liable for NOT calling the police.

 

This guy needs to be suspended from all further events for the safety of the other scouts.

 

I wonder how the SM will handle the lad's eagle application when it is placed in front of him for signature.

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In this forum we read a lot of disagreement over issues ranging from trivial to relatively significant.

 

But on this important issue, it's nice to see near unanimity of opinion in that it is serious and demands swift action.

 

What's described in the OP is beyond an adolescent fit of pique over life's ups and down. And it's outside the realm of juvenile hijinks gotten out of hand.

 

It seems unlikely that this behavior came out of the blue. If this was not surprising from this boy, one wonders how and why he was still with the troop. And one wonders why other boys would not take their scouting elsewhere if such a situation were festering untreated.

 

Broken home? Upset over event in his life? Sorry. Neither causes or excuses being a sadistic creep. My capacity for sympathy began to diminish at incident 2.

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This isn't just a problem with a 17 year old scout. This is also a problem of a serious lack of adult leadership and supervision, not just at this camp, but at summer camp as well - and I wouldn't send any one out on any outings with these so-called leaders.

 

Tossing knives at a wall across a room? He's going home - and getting the bill for the drywall repair. BTW - he "repaired" it with toothpaste? I'd be hacked off enough right now to send an e-mail to the Scout Executive (you can contact most councils through their web sites) stating that your son's troop was camping at the local scout camp and one of the scouts damaged the walls - was he aware of that? When the Scout Exec contacts the SM or CC and lets them know the troop is banned from council properties until they pay the repair bills, and possibly for longer than that, maybe that will get the adult "leaders" attention.

 

#2? Sounds like the adult leaders didn't learn about the duct tape or bunk tying incidents until you told them, if they didn't investigate why there was a commotion in that room in the first place - just another example of the lack of sense the "leaders" had. If the leaders had known what was going on? He should have gone home.

 

#3? Not going home (unless told in advance not to go out on the ice because it was dangerous) but would certainly lead to a lecture to ALL of the Scouts on the dangers of thin ice.

 

#4? Going home

 

#5? Going home

 

I'm sorry to say, if these leaders don't step things up and take their responsibilities to provide a safe environment for your son and the other boys, the only real options you have is to become the COR and fire them, or find a new Troop.

 

 

Correcting a typo(This message has been edited by calicopenn)

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Ditto CalicoPenn, on all points. The knife-throwing would have been the tipping point for me. Dangerous, inexcusable behavior.

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Guess I musta missed why the law was going to get called????

 

For one boy who is a story teller saying he got "popped" in the chin?????

 

 

Guess I missed why the troop leadership is negligent????

 

Sounds like trainer lady is portraying her son as the victim.......I bet this is the last time he goes on an outing with out mom in tow.....A shame.

(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

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I agree with calico also.

 

Having a broken home life might be a reason why a boy acts this way..but DOES NOT excuse any of it.

 

Yeah, I'd call the law too. Just calling the law will not result in a boy going to jail. It will not mean he will be handcuffed and slammed into the back of the car and hauled off.

 

In alot of case, the law wil show up, investigate and give you some options..many of which do not inviolve the youth being arrested. But can/will result in a parent getting called by the officer and told to come pick up the youth.

 

If nothing else, the 17 year old will realize that he does not have free license to continue and he will also see that the troop will not put up with this type of activity.

 

Now consider this: The boy is 17 and nobody is doing anything yet. Well, when he turns 18,. many people will do something about it because he is a legal adult .

 

Other adults will take an oppertunity to "straighten" him out behind the woodshed, and parents will be more likely to sue and press charges as you will be dealing with an adult, not a child any more.

 

If this boy is allowed to continue on this path, he will be in jail before he turns 19.

 

 

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remember that it could be your son having a bad day and another scout runs his mouth and your scout pops him....Want him to end up in the back of a squad car.... Boys will be boys........

 

 

I hate to see the Man getting involved, which may lead to child protective services, which may lead too..................................

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Well, I guess things are a bit different here in my area. We are a bit more rural.

 

We know about half the police officers or Sheriffs deputy's on a first name basis.

 

At our council camp ( 2 hours away) I do not know any of the local law Enforcement, but about half the staff of any given event at camp do. Some of our staff are officers of the law, Some are magistrates, some or police.

 

It does make it eassier to have a officer show up and give a good talk or lecture or just sacre somebody.

 

I guess in a more urban area like yours, there is less familiarity and stricter responce.

 

Not trying to sound like Matberry or that Sheriff Andy is in charge, but depoending on what you do around here, you may get picked up by the law and taken home to your parents, which can be - and has been - worse than going to jail! :)

 

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Just got back from meeting with the CC, SM and ASMs that were at camp and one of our troop Dads that is a juvenile probation officer (the committee brought him due to his expertise in youth behavior). Got the concerns sorted out and clarified.

 

17 had 4 other boys throwing knives with him by the end of the evening. All four will be sharing the cost of the drywall repair. The SM went out on Saturday night and got supplies to repair the wall after 17's Dad came for him. The council was alteredd to the problem today, they were closed yesterday and the ranger was out of camp on Sunday when they left. The 5 knife throwers will be doing an 8 hour service project at that camp later this month. The SM and ranger are looking for a suitable punishment for the crime. All knife throwers lost their Totin' Chips with no re-earn date in the near or distant future. The leaders had a "ceremonial shredding and burning" after breakfast in the fire the first years built.

 

The ice incident was on a swale area, depth estimated to be about 1-2 feet max. The scouts were told to stay off but went out anyway. One scout did run into the cabin and alert the adults to what was going on. All involved were scolded and they lost outside privilieges for the rest of the day.

 

The punch was witnessed by all in line for chow. The eye witnesses say that 17 was flipping his arms up to protect himself, supposedly he thought my 5 foot tall 11 year old was going to hit him. 17 is close to 6 foot and has 50 pounds on son. Thought that was a lame excuse but everyone claims that 17 didn't hit son on purpose.

 

17 had an partner in crime on the duct taping and roping event. Everyone in the bunk room got it to one degree or another. Son and first timer just got it the worst because they were sounder sleepers than the others. Due to the closed steel fire doors in the cabin none of the adults supposedly heard anything. The leaders found out about it in the morning when son and first timer said something about it at breakfast. Turns out the older scouts that were put in charge of the bunk room were the ones that committed the event.

 

Lemonade event was premeditated. And 17 admitted to it.

 

17's Dad came for him. Turns out he's is the best of the 6 kids from a combined family. Dad was pissed and 17 was fearful of Dad coming to get him. Dad said 17 wouldn't have a knife until he was 21 now.

 

17 and his fellow duct taper will be banished from camping and outings for 4 months, not allowed to run in troop elections and will not be passed on Scout Spirit for at least 4 months. Duct tape assistant was also a knife thrower. The rest of the knife throwers will also suffer loss of Scout Spirit for 4 months and will not be allowed to run for elections.

There will also be a troop wide bullying/hazing discussion at our next meeting.

 

My email to the SM actually moved the process forward. They had originally planned to meet tomorrow night to discuss the events of the weekend and figure out the consequences. Now my nerves have been calmed and so have those of first timers parents too.

 

Lessons learned this camp. 1) take son's reports with a larger grain of salt; 2) this cabin will never be used by our troop again; 3) watch which boys you put in charge; 4) zero tolerance on safety issues; 5)SM realizes that he needs to step up and not let things go on because "boys will be boys"; 6) ask boys if they don't get along with others in troop on a regular basis and separate them as needed, probably a SMC question now. Finally parents will be notified on events at camp as soon as the happen not from their sons stories of camp - ie. better communication with parents.

 

Thanks for your insights. Son will be camping without Mom for a while more. If he wants me or Dad on the first trip when 17 returns we will go with him. If he wants us there before that we'll go then too, but we're not going to push ourselves on him at camp.

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First off, like Nike's, my 17 year old former SPL-son also thinks this kid should have gotten the boot for tying up & duct taping young scouts. Seems we have consensus among the ex-SPLs around our houses.

 

Most of the things you describe would be enough to merit sending a boy home, in my book, too. The knives, duct tape, harassment of a new scout on his first trip with the troop, hitting, and ice trick could all be reasons for suspension (the ice, I think it depends on the exact circumstances).

 

If this is typical behavior, one wonders why the troop has allowed it to continue for so long. "He needs scouting!" is a terrible cop-out and does no one (including this boy) any favors. It simply teaches this boy that he can play the pity card and get away with it (which will work very poorly for him in the adult world). And other boys in the troop shouldn't be subject to this sort of behavior. I'll be surprised if your brand-new scout on his first ever weekend away from home comes back again. Did he not also deserve a safe scouting environment, and might he not have "needed scouting" too?

 

As for pressing charges - not sure if I'd do that over what you describe as a "pop on the chin." I might be more inclined to do so for the duct taping! But I'd probably hold off to see what the troop is going to do, first. And I'd encourage my son not to tent with this fellow, ever. How could you trust someone who ties you up or duct tapes you while you're sleeping? Creepy.

 

 

 

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Yah, thanks for sharin' the outcome, trainerlady. Your points are good ones to remember, too. The stories boys tell are rarely the whole version; we need to listen with alertness and concern, but also a bit of calm adult perspective, and an ounce of good communication is worth a pound of explainin' later on. Glad the troop leadership responded, and glad they set your mind more at ease.

 

If I were to sit with 'em, though, I reckon I'd be offerin' a few words of advice along the lines of many of my fellow scouters here.

 

B

 

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