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Sports Over Camping


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Why do parents pick a youth sports game over a scout campout? Is there a team element that exist in sports that is missing in scouting? We have our annual Cub scout campout in one week put on by the council over two nights. Its usually a good program with activities through out the day on saturday a big camp fire program at night. My assistant den leader just informed that he won't get there until saturday 5:00 PM. His boys (a Tiger and a Bear) each have soccer games. So! My boy does too I am the coach but we are going camping. Are my piorities flipped?

 

 

 

 

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I dont believe that people feel a commitment to scouting as they do to a sports team. We have not and probably never will emphasize the participation part of scouting. Heck, even in this forum the players cant agree on what constitutes participation. Sports on the other hand emphasizes participation from day one, some even demand participation.

 

A campout goes on all day, so what if little Johnny missed the morning activities sez the Dad. All you can do is make sure the parent realizes what activities the child will miss during the daytime hours.

 

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Little johny is going to mis 24 hours of experience.

 

Friday night dinner (with friends)

Friday night flashlight tag

Friday night in a tent

Saturday breakfast

Saturday Flag ceremony

- BB gun shooting

- Craft

- Group games

- Making a bird house or toolbox

 

For a 40 minute game?

 

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This has been a problem for umpteen years now, but it is escalating. Years ago there was only Little League in spring. Now we have little league, all star ball in summer, fall baseball, soccer in fall, indoor soccer in winter, pee wee football, basketball, etc. etc. etc.

 

I agree with fotoscout, parents don't have the commitment to Scouting as they do for Sports (Reliving their childhood thru their sons?) ALso, the coaches are to blame, as they demand players attend EVERY practice and game. Miss a practice and you won't play in the next game. Miss a game and you will be benched the rest of the season because you are not a team player. We in Scouting don't have that to hold over the boy's heads. In some cases I kinda wish we did!

 

I just had a discussion with a parent about next summer. Her son can't go to either Summer Camp or on a High Adventure trip because he is going to THREE soccer camps during the summer. I asked her, "Why not 2 Soccer camps, and one scout activity?" Because if her son goes to these camps her may get better and get a college scholarship and become a pro player.

I wanted to ask "What are the odds" and what are the chances of burn-out. I've seen that already too, where a kid just up and quits his sport at 16 because he is just sick of it all.

 

I don't know what the solution is, if there is one. At the beginning of the year, I ask my PLC members to "once in a while" make Scouting your priority. For the most part they do, but Sports still takes priority almost every time!(This message has been edited by eagle90)

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I think one factor is that members of a team feel an obligation to the other members of the team: if I don't play, my team may lose or even forfeit. Depending on the particular scouting activity, there may be less of such a feeling of obligation. In It's Me's example, the cub scout will miss lots of fun activities--but you can't let your team down to go have fun activities. I think it becomes a different story when you become a Patrol Leader or other leader, or when your patrol is counting on you to be able to do the activity.

My son is on a rec-level baseball team, and he has missed a few games because of scout activities--however, if his absence would make the team forfeit the game, he'd be at the game.

Also, if you're going to be very serious about an activity--whether it's a sport or Scouting--you have to decide that it comes first.

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I ask that our parents provide some balance. Sometimes pick the sports, sometimes pick scouts. When possible, pick both. I think it comes down to a few possibilities, of which most have already been mentioned:

1) Sports emphasizes participation to the point of punishing those who miss.

2) Parents are living a fantasy life (reliving what they couldn't do). This is especially big with dads.

3) They honestly think that little Johnny will get a scholarship.

4) Missing something cool like football or soccer for something uncool like scouts, is - well - not cool.

 

How do you fight it:

1) Make sure they understand that it hinders advancement. Johnny wants to make 1st Class just like his friends. But, if he misses half of the campouts, he's going to be behind.

2) Make parents realize that the likelihood of Johnny getting a scholarship based upon becoming an Eagle Scout is far greater than earning one as an athlete.

3) Make sure the activities are as cool as they can be. This is the PLCs job. They should make activities of such a nature that a boy doesn't want to miss.

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This is a decades old discussion just with newer leaders involved in it.

 

There have always been aother choices. There will always be other choices.

 

It's Me, you signed you kids up for soccer too right? Why? What did you hope they would get from it? Whatever your resons don't that have to be there in order to get those benefits? Just because you chose the campout does not make it the right choice for each family.

 

You cannot evr turn back time. Wishing that boys had fewr choices will not make it happen. Competion for attendence ahs always existed and the number of activities contines to increase and there is no signs of it stopping. You have three choices.

 

1-accept it

2-complain about it

3-compete for their attention

 

1 is the easiest

2 is the most common

3 is the most rewarding

 

I think the scouting program is developed to successfully compete with any other activity, but as Bill Hillcourt always pointed out... "you have to be the Best Show In Town".

 

Each leader must make their own choice.

 

 

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Bob, I think that answer is too simplistic. Its a cultural thing. Sports has a culture of participation, requirements, and demands, we dont. Face it, if youre on a team for multiple years you have one choice..get better and become a starter or a valuable alternate, or get out of the way and make room for someone else. We dont even require our kids to advance. We dont require them to come to meetings, we dont require them to put on the uniform, all we ask is that they pay the fees.

 

Were not too upset when a kid doesnt show and screws up the whole patrol, are we? We pander to the kid who just wants to go camping and hang out with his buddies. We pander to the kid who just wants to have a good time without doing anything more than the bare minimum. No good team would ever put up with what we put up with. Most bad teams wont even put up with it.

 

Heres a good idea, lets do like the sports people do, make special units of good Scouts. No, not the OA!. Just one good unit in each town where participation is both expected and demanded, where advancement to Eagle is the norm. Lets give the kids that really love this scouting stuff, a place to be on the all-star team. Let's give them a place where planning and execution are taken to a higher level. A place where everyone, even the adults are pushed to the limit. A place where EVERYONE can be counted on to get their job done all the time! A place where you either perform or are asked to leave.

 

Oh yeah, one more thing, lets be brave enough to publicly announce this new all star unit, with all its demands and expectations.

(This message has been edited by fotoscout)(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

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I got so absorbed in my reply that I almost forgot where I started.

 

You cant be the best show in town without commitment. Youll never become the best show in town without demanding commitment. And thats just something we dont do.

 

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This is a well run Council event. This is about as good as it can get for a Cub. Its close. Its fun. Its camping, hiking and campfires. I showed this campout on our den calendar back in August. Head to head the Pack's annual Council campout loses to a routine sports game.

 

Why? Although the parents want good and responsible kids, the aggressiveness and competitiveness offered in sports are considered more important attributes to be learned.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Its Me)

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Eagledad, I dont think youll regret that thought. I understand what Bob is saying and there is certainly truth in it. But I dont believe that you can become the best show in town simply by working hard to get there without demanding a commitment.

 

Say you have a Troop of 30 boys and 10 are really gung ho active Scouts. Those 10 boys can work themselves to death in an effort to better the program, but the other 20 are going to stand as an impediment to progress at every turn. Look at this in terms of the sports analogy, 10 dedicated players and 20 hangers-on. Those 10 players can stand on their heads all day long and the team wont get any better without a commitment from the other 20. This is a simple equation; commitment = excellence (or, the best show in town)!

 

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If a group of performers have a show to do, does the attendance in the audience get to determine the quality of the show, or are the performers expected to put on the same high quality show regardless of how may spectators arrive?

 

A Scout unit cannot excuse the quality of its program based o how many scouts show up. The ones that come expect, and deserve, the best show in town.

 

As word spreads on the consistent quality of the show, more people come to see it.

 

As word spreads of the consistent quality of unit program, more will attend, and join.

 

You cannot concern yourself with the other choices a youth has for activities. There will always be other choices. If you follow the scouting program you can be the BEST choice. Isn't that the best recruitment and retention tool?

 

BW

 

 

 

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