Wearing the uniform

[msnowman]

Wow - that ESLP uniform thread got...lively I guess it what I'll go with.

 

So? When (outside of Den/Pack/Troop meetings) is it okay to wear the uniform?

 

Someone on the ESLP uniform thread asked is it okay to let Cubs wear their uniform to school on the day they have a den meeting. How about on the day someone from the Pack will be going in to visit the classrooms as part of spring or fall recruiting?

 

How about while performing the service hours needed to get from Star to Life? Do they always wear their uniform? Or should it fit the service? Nephew wore his uniform for his service at the library, but not while bleaching dog kennels. Should the SM not counted his dog kennel service?

 

I'll jump in with my thoughts first, just to kick things off.

 

1 - Scouts + Uniforms + School = the best advertising your unit can get. How many recruiting drive ideas try to urge you to get the boys to wear their uniforms to school? At least Cubs still want to.

 

2 - Uniforms for service - It should fit the project. Food Drive = Yes. Library service = Yes. Cleaning kennels = No. Removing fire/smoke damaged items from the church basement = No. (But, ultimatly, counting those hours will be at the SM's discretion)

 

On your marks - get set - opine away.

 

YiS

Michelle

 

 

[Bob White]

Wearing the uniform is not what determines whether an activity can be used for advancemen, nor is it required for a Scout activity. Conversely, wearing the uniform is inappropriate for a non-scouting activity.

 

Whether a person wears the uniform is determined by the uniform regulations of the BSA, and not by personal opinion or sketches in a magazine.

 

The important thing to remember is that the uniform along with the names, phrases, and images of scouting are owned by the BSA and not by the unit or individual member, and so the authority to determine their use is held by the excutive board of the BSA not by then unit volunteer, or individual scout or scouter.

 

You can learn most of these rules by attending job specific basic training, and through the contents of the BSA Insignia Guide and the Unit Money Earning Application.

 

Wearing the uniform somewhere while on the way to a scout meeting is not an issue. Wearing it to a school when representing yourself as a scout leader to recruit members is not a problem If you have permission from the unit.

 

Wearing clothing that identifies you as a scout when doing a service project as part of a unit or council activity is not required in order to do the project or to recieve credit toward advancement. And some activities that a scout could do for service may not be an activity where the BSA approves using the images of the BSA.

 

An example would be if the scout wanted to pass out flyers for a candidate. The scoutmaster could accept those hours as a service project, however the BSA says that he cannot use the name or images of the BSA whle he does that activity. So he could do the project but not as a scout and still recieve the advancement credit.

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

The wearing of the Scout uniform can be summed up by viewing it as a Public Relations gimmick on the part of the BSA. If it makes the organization look good, wear it, if it may cause the organization embarrassment, then don't.

 

The uniform is not a requirement for the individual, thus it is there only for the organization's benefit, i.e. sale - profitability, and image - public relations.

 

The Scout stores offer these items for sale for the purpose of supporting the program with added income that enhances the bottomline financially and doesn't necessitate the additional burden of more fund-raising.

 

If the group decides, one doesn't need to wear the whole uniform, just the shirt, everything else is unnecessary. Any cheap tan shirt from a discount house, of course, will also work because the uniform isn't necessary to begin with.

 

Stosh

[Bob White]

The thoughtful selection of quality adult leadership is the most important part of developing and delivering a quality scouting program to youth.

 

[evmori]

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[evmori]

Again, my post is removed without any explanation! It was not a personal attack! It was an observation! And I actually agreed with Bob! Maybe that's why it was removed!

[John-in-KC]

Michelle,

 

I've seen a lot of Scouts now in various middle and high school classes. At the middle school level, you may or may not get them into anything Scouting related at school. Scouting's a little bit to the dorky side, and there is huge peer pressure to conform.

 

At High School, though, there seems to be a difference. They will wear their Class A uniforms, briefly, if there's a true need. More importantly, though, they'll gladly wear staff T-shirts, OA T-shirts, Mic-o-Say T-Shirts (the honor society local to Kansas City, eastern Kansas, and Western Missouri), and all manner of polos ... generic Boy Scouting or Venturing, unit, Eagle, OA, MOS, and camp staff.

 

True story: 4 autumns ago, one of the first Freshmen Mentors EagleSon encountered at his 9th grade HS registration day was wearing a Mic-o-Say Firebuilder T-shirt. Another was wearing a H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation camp staff T-shirt with the specific camp big and bold on the back of the shirt. One of these mentors was also co-captain of the track team; the other was President of Debate Club and eventually Salutorian of his class.

 

Most HS Scouts will talk with quiet pride about being part of Scouting. It's become embedded in their character.

[Stosh]

Maybe like Bob's comments it was removed because it had nothing to do about wearing the uniform, the topic of the thread.

 

Instead of off topic questioning the quality of adult leadership, it might be better served to actually address the topic of the thread itself.

 

In spite of the style in which it is written, the comments themselves are all valid. Identity, logo, and such are all valid marketing ploys/gimmicks for product recognition. No entity out there is going to want that image tarnished, questioned, or portrayed in a way that would cast a negative light on the organization. Surely one of the major reasons boys don't wear their uniform is the image that has been created over the years. No one can thus argue that BSA will go to great lengths to protect that image and apply rules that pertain to maintaining that image. All this falls under the public relations departments of all businesses including BSA.

 

It has already been established that the wearing of the uniform is not required for the individual member of the organization so any wearing of the uniform under the strict rules of the organization could easily be interpreted to show a reflection on maintenance of a positive logo/image for the organization. Also the uniform as a logo of the organization gives instant recognition as to the connection to the organization. The average person walking down the street will see a boy in a t-shirt and jeans, but they will see a Boy Scout when they see the uniform. Again instant product recognition.

 

No one can deny the monitary benefit to the organization gained by the sale of uniform and uniform like merchandise to it's members. It has been shown over and over again, brand recognition is maintained by constant exposure in the marketplace. The organization gains no such recognition when the boys do not wear the uniform.

 

And the last paragraph addresses not only that which is allowed by the organization, but also the flexibility allowed and often practiced by the individual parts of the organization. A large majority of units may adhere to shirt only in their practice, but it is tacitly condoned by the organization because a shirt alone is better than nothing.

 

And of course with the uniform being optional, this whole discussion is a moot point. Maybe that's why it's easier to comment about the one making the post rather than address the issues.

 

Stosh

[Pack212Scouter]

The uniform has far more purposes than fundraising or promotion (although these are valid points). It has a purpose in Scouting beyond that for the boys. Teambuilding, unit cohesion, pride, and many others. BSA and many of us say "Uniform is optional" to get them and keep them Scouting. And keep in mind that most are proud of their uniform and it's awards (even if it is more secretly as they get into the teen years). I think a far better thing is to find ways to get boys the uniform if they can't afford it.

 

Is the uniform essential to Scouting, no. Does the uniform contribute to the Scouting program and have benefits to the Boy, yes.

 

In some ways it still amazes me that BSA and some units and individuals are so cavalier about it. It has been shown time and again in schools and other programs that, especially at a young age, uniforming helps maintain unity, discipline, and even improve program effectiveness.

 

In most private and religious schools uniforming is not optional. In many public schools uniforming is not optional. In most sports activities uniforming is not optional. In many non-sports activities (band, etc.) uniforming is not optional. In many civic organizations uniforming is not optional. In the military uniforming is not optional. In public service organizations (police, fire, medical, etc) uniforming is not optional. In many jobs uniforming is not optional (primarily branding & PR purposes). Yet in Scouting we say "uniforming doesn't matter."

 

Ok...done with my rant...just my opinion though.

 

 

[Bob White]

An excellent understanding and explanation or uniforming Pack212Scouter

[Stosh]

I have often found that uniforms make or break the esprit de corps of the unit. In my Venturing Crew, uniforms are not optional. The wear them, wear them correctly and wear them completely, or don't bother showing up. This approach is totally inappropriate in the Scouting program, but as a totally adult directed unit, there's no room for discussion. And by the way, after 10 years, I haven't had anyone question the policy. I have charter members that have continued on in the program into adulthood, so we must be doing something right.

 

It may be a PR gimmick, but in many respects it works quite nicely. Never said it was a bad thing.

 

Stosh

[Pack212Scouter]

jblake, I'm not firing rounds across your bow or anything, but I've never been involved in Ventures and you totally lost me with your statement "This approach is totally inappropriate in the Scouting program, but as a totally adult directed unit, there's no room for discussion."

 

I thought Venturing *was* part of the Scouting program. I also thought that crews were directed by youth leaders under the guidance of adult advisors. Is this not the way that your crew runs?

[ccjj]

While in elementary school, my son wore his Cub Scout uniform to school on meeting days, until he had gym class on that day, then he wore a scouting t-shirt.

While in middle school, he sometimes wore a scouting t-shirt to school.

While in high school, he often wears a scouting t-shirt to school, and several times has worn a full uniform. Several of his teachers came to his Eagle Court of Honor last week.

 

On the girl scout side, my daughter wears cub scout shirts to school all the time. Once I got her some girl scout shirts, she wears them as well.

To her first girl scout meeting, she wore her boy scout troop t-shirt!

 

ccjj

[msnowman]

There are lots of interesting posts here. Lots of different views.

 

Just thought I'd add - the next generation of Uniform Police are coming along nicely. At the Scout show 2 weeks ago Nephew says to me "I can't believe how much bad uniforming there is here....there's a Bear in a tan shirt, a Webelos with red loops. Can i go say something?"

 

Ah, they grow up so fast.

 

YiS

Michelle

 

 

 

[Stosh]

Pack212, I have a military reenactment Crew and there is no way we can operate under the accepted regulations of National BSA. National has exempted us so as to conform to the accepted safety and procedures of the hobby and not BSA. As president and commanding officer of the Crew's CO, I don't really have much option. I am training boys to handle leadership in the hobby, not the crew. We are very successful with what we do, but we are not any glowing example of how to run a normal Venturing Crew.

 

Stosh