Campaign hat on a Boy Scout?

[Kudu]

The "Insignia Guide" is what Uniform Police usually refer to when explaining why you can't wear outdoor pants (such as olive drab BDUs or "zip-offs") with the BSA shirt.

 

If all of the Scouts wearing hit pins in the official "Boy Scout Handbook" are wearing the adult pin, then you can't say that BSA headquarters takes what the "Insignia Guide" has to say about hat pins very seriously, can you? :-/

 

I like the 1st Class reproduction hat pin myself. It can be painted green to conform to the Scoutmaster hat pin of the same era. Assistant Scoutmaster pins were red. Field Commissioner pins were baby blue, Council Commissioners were dark blue (almost purple). Patrol Leader's pins were silver. See:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/uniforms/hats/pins.htm

[FScouter]

The Insignia Guide is written for those that care about the uniform and want to wear it correctly.

 

There is no such thing as a hat pin restricted to adults only. Refer to the Insignia Guide.

 

The internet if full of sources for imitation Scout merchandise.

[Kudu]

> The Insignia Guide is written for those that care about the uniform

> and want to wear it correctly.

 

Those who care about the uniform wear it the way that it SHOULD be designed.

 

I once shared a sewing machine in Ely, Minnesota with the executive in charge of the insignia of the BSA Boy Scout Division. I was surprised to find out he and a couple of the most senior executives in Irving Texas had unsuccessfully tried to get the Supply Division to introduce official nylon cargo "zip-off" Scout pants. I would not have learned that if I hadn't been wearing my Scout Shirt and olive-drab zip-offs to a national training course :-/

 

> There is no such thing as a hat pin restricted to adults only. Refer to

> the Insignia Guide.

 

Silly me. When I read "The large pin also may be worn only by boys....Adults may wear the adult universal hat pin...." I jumped to the conclusion that the large pin is only for boys and the "adult" universal hit pin is only for, um, adults!

 

Which only goes to show that if you read the Insignia Guide closely enough, parsing it for loopholes, a sentence can mean almost anything :-/

 

[fgoodwin]

Anybody who ignores BSA policy, procedures or guidelines (and the Insignia Guide certainly qualifies as an official statement of BSA policies) is running their own Scouting program -- not the BSA Scouting program.

 

Everyone who signed an adult application pledged to abide by BSA rules and regulations -- if you can't do that (and you're not one of those whose signature means nothing), then you should do the honorable thing and resign.

[Kudu]

> Everyone who signed an adult application pledged to abide by BSA

> rules and regulations --

 

Not so fast. We agree to abide by rules and regulations that the BSA discourages us from learning. If you want to actually read them, then you have to make an appointment with your Scout Executive to view them (eyes only) at your local Scout HQ under someone's supervision.

 

Actual sentences taken from these semi-secret official rules appear as bold-faced print in the publications that we are actually allowed to view freely.

 

The reason for all the secrecy might be because the BSA is ashamed to allow their "policy, procedures, or guidelines" to see the light of day. Or it might be because, like the Insignia Guide, they are so poorly written that if you parse them carefully they could mean whatever you want them to mean.

 

> then you should do the honorable thing and resign.

 

Well, no matter where we stand on this issue, I'm sure that we can ALL agree that the SPIRIT of the law is that we should be intimidated by mean-spirited old men at BSA National Supply who wear fluorescent green and orange polyester golf clothes to work and want us to wear an over-priced indoor hot house uniform just the way the dress designer Oscar de la Renta designed it a quarter of a century ago :-/

 

I'm just saying that the LETTER of the law is not so clear.

 

For instance, FScouter says that obviously "ADULTS may wear the ADULT universal hat pin" means that "there is no such thing as a hat pin restricted to adults only."

 

Do you agree, Fred?

 

If not then FScouter may be allowing Scouts to wear the adult hat pin and therefore running his own Scouting program. Perhaps you should tell him to do the honorable thing and resign!

 

If you agree with the commonsense meaning of the rule, then perhaps you should alert the BSA that all of the Scouts in the Boy Scout Handbook wearing hat pins are ignoring BSA policy, procedures or guidelines (and the Insignia Guide certainly qualifies as an official statement of BSA policies) so they are running their own Scouting program, and should do the honorable thing and resign!

 

Or maybe it is the publishers of the Boy Scout Handbook who are ignoring BSA policy, and you should tell them to do the honorable thing and resign!

 

Oh intolerance, where is thy sting? :-)

[Mike F]

Ronvo asked about the ribbons on the Troop 17 uniforms.

Check out the description under "Recognition Plan" on their home page.

I've never seen anything like it.

[evmori]

acco,

5 beader - served on WB staff at Gillwell?

 

Are we allowed to wear our hearts on our sleeves?

[Kudu]

John, are you still reading? How did your son's crossover ceremony go?

[OldGreyEagle]

"Are we allowed to wear our hearts on our sleeves?"

 

I am not sure why one would put the life rank patch on a sleeve, but I do know our intelligence is shown by what we post

[ronvo]

Mike F

 

Thanks - I didn't spend enogh time there but went back and looked at THEIR troop recognition plan.

 

Now they are a SHARP LOOKING troop - no question about it. And the public will say "now there goes a real Boy Scout troop."

 

HOWEVER they are 'doing their own thing' (troop recognition plan) wearing unapproved ribbons on the sacred BSA uniform.

 

THEREFORE they are not doing BSA Scouting but rather Troop XVII Scouting.

 

THEREFORE they are NOT "a real Boy Scout troop"

 

THEREFORE they should do the honorable thing and surrender their charter.

 

:) :) :) :) :)

 

What's a Spizerinctun?

 

 

ronvo

 

 

[evmori]

Troop 17 sure does look sharp! And they have tough rules! BTW, are all those ribbons & do dads BSA approved?

 

Spizerinctum is a term meaning

"ambition to succeed"

 

Its geneology is unclear but it was a favorite of Jack Baker and he used it frequently.

 

The term has been used for many years to designate the silver stars (ie "Spizerinctun Stars")on ribbons such as honor camper and honor patrol.

 

This is appropriate because, where used,

it indicates special effort or achievement.

 

Found that on their site.

 

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[evmori]

The humor impaired are here!

[emb021]

Two responses:

 

1) if its so impossible to see the BSA Rules & Regs, how is it that I had no problem to order a set of these for about $3. I have Sept, 1998 and Jan, 2003 printings of both the BSA Charter & Bylaws and the BSA Rules & Regulations.

 

2) There is (was) both a Six-beader and a Five Beader. There is only one six-beader in the world: the Gilwell Camp Chief, who is responsible for Wood Badge world-wide. There is supposed to be only one 5-beader in each country that runs Wood Badge. They serve as the person in charge of Wood Badge in that country, and are called Gilwell Deputy Camp Chief. However, I don't think these traditions continue. Green Bar Bill was the only BSA scouter who put himself forward as the 5-beader for the US. No idea if his successor(s) continued this.

 

[Kahuna]

I went thru my Gilwell Book and J.S. Wilson's Scouting Round the World, but could find nothing on five or six beaders. There are several pics of Wilson when he was Camp Chief, but you can't tell how many beads he wore. The only five beader I ever saw was Bill Hillcourt. He had one of the original Dinizulu beads as his fifth bead. I met Lady B-P and have a photo of her, but don't recall and can't count the number of beads she wore.

[KoreaScouter]

I didn't look at Troop 17s web site (I'm at Narita airport in Tokyo on a 6-hour layover), but based on what's been posted, I'll say this. I wear a campaign hat at all ceremonies and Troop meetings, and take it with me to summer camp, too, although I don't wear it all day there. The campaign hat, like the Baker tent and the round metal canteen, evokes nostaligia in us oldsters and conjures up a simpler time (just look at Fred MacMurray's picture to the right side of this pane right now). It's not comfortable, though, and not very practical either, if you take care of it the way you're supposed to. I can't imagine a Troop of boys wearing them voluntarily as regular Troop headgear. On hikes, the backpack frame will knock it off your head, and that's just one example of why they're great for ceremonial wear, but not the best option for activities. Plus, those critters are expensive after you get them all tarted up AND purchase the press, too.

 

I wear one because I'm a Scoutmaster, and that's part of the memory I want the boys to have when they look back on their Scouting experience.

 

KS