BSAs next uniform

[dan]

If you go to http://www.scoutstuff.org/ and than to the catlog, there is a poll about the next uniform! Not real in depth but it seemed to cover all the issues discussed here!

 

BSA Catalog: Opinion Poll

Please take a moment to share your opinions with Supply Division by completing this on-line poll. Your input is essential to meeting our goal: to deliver all the excitement and fun that is Scouting.

 

When you purchase BSA merchandise, the money you paid goes to:

 

The BSA

The manufacturer

The merchant you bought it from

The manufacturer, the merchant you bought it from, and the BSA

Don't Know/No Opinion

 

Next time Supply Division changes the Boy Scout shorts and pants, what would be the most important consideration in your opinion?

 

Large Cargo Pockets

A generous fit

100% cotton fabric

Blended high-performance fabric

Made outside the USA to lower the price

Be very simple to lower the price

Change the color

Don't Know/No Opinion

 

The BSA Supply Division has a Satisfaction Guarantee that states we will replace any item or refund your purchase price if you are not completely satisfied with your purchase. Which statement below best describes your reaction to this policy?

 

Knew about it, and believe it.

Knew about it, and don't believe it.

Did not know about it, and believe it.

Did not know about it, and don't believe it.

Don't Know/No Opinion

 

If the BSA were to make a change to the uniform shirts, what would be the most important consideration in your opinion?

 

Don't change anything.

Change all uniform shirts (Cub Scout, Boy Scout, and Venturing) to the same color.

A generous fit

Blended high-performance fabric that is cooler

Made outside the USA to lower the price

Be very simple to lower the price

Add more construction features like pleats, Velcro, vents, and a yolk (shoulder panel)

Don't Know/No Opinion

 

How did you find out about scoutstuff.org?

 

Through a Search Engine

A link from another website

From a friend or family member

Read the address in a BSA publication

Other

Don't Know/No Opinion

 

By 2003, Supply Division will change the Boy Scout cap (currently Green & Red) to a more relaxed fabric, with a lower crown (top). What color should it be?

 

All tan, like the Boy Scout shirt.

All green, like the Boy Scout merit badge sash.

All red, like the shoulder loops.

Keep the green and red look; just change the fabric and crown.

Give me some more color options.

Don't Know/No Opinion

 

[dan]

FAQ from the BSA website.

 

Are the Philmont shorts going to become the official new uniform shorts?

The Philmont (High Adventure) shorts are not going to become the official new uniform shorts. The shorts are khaki in color and the official uniform colors are olive pants/shorts and tan shirts for Boy Scouts. We try to be responsive to our total memberships needs and wants. We are continuously researching and testing new styles, different fabrics, and many other opportunities to fulfill our mission. A Philmont (High Adventure) style short in the proper Boy Scout colors is a possibility, as well as a number of other options under consideration.

 

In 2001, we will be offering a made in the USA High Adventure short through our custom design department to councils who want a camp short with their design embroidered on the pocket. This short will be exactly the same style as those currently available at Philmont.

When will the Boy Scout pants and shorts change again?

The bottoms that we introduced in 1999 are very functional and have been a great improvement from the previous edition. We are striving for continuous improvement, researching and testing new styles, different fabrics, and many other opportunities to fulfill our mission. If changes are determined to be desirable by all facets of the organization, it will not be prior to the 2001 Jamboree and could be as far off as the next Jamboree in 2005. As always, we will strive to manufacture our uniforms in the USA.

Why doesn't the BSA take on-line orders?

The BSA Supply Division does not take direct on-line retail orders because we are trying to encourage our members to make their purchases at our 1500+ licensed distributors and Scout Shops. We currently offer to take retail phone orders at our National Distribution Center, however that only reflects 5% of our total annual sales. We do receive lots of feedback, especially through this website, that many Scouts and leaders would like to be able to order on-line. Perhaps in the future, that will become a reality, but not until after some serious consideration of our existing partner retailers.

 

[hops_scout]

I think we should have olive drab BDU pants as our official uniform pants. They also need to be fairly inexpensive.

[scoutldr]

YES we need a new uniform!!!! The current uniform is very poor quality in both fabric and construction, not to mention it costs twice as much as it should for what you get. I refuse to pay $43 for a shirt!!! First of all, design a shirt that doesn't shrink around the middle and put buttons at the belly that will stay buttoned! ;-)

 

I was a Scout in the 60s and the uniforms then were ideal, in my opinion. The winter shirt was long sleeved and of a heavier gabardine fabric. It had a placket front and pleated shirt pockets. The summer shirt was a lighter poly/cotton blend that didn't "pill". There was no collar, so it really looked ridiculous and incomplete without a neckerchief. No epaulets, so those with multiple positions weren't constantly conflicted over which color to wear. Overall, the uniform design was sharper, with a more "tailored" look. Adults wore a tie for all but the most casual occasions. And the "overseas" cap was comfortable and easy to store tucked in your belt.

 

I recently purchased a used shirt on eBay and when it arrived, I was pleasantly surprised to find it was 100% cotton, so it must have been a special order. It really looks good and feels good when it's pressed and starched. But it is a pain!

 

One other thing I would like to see...eliminate those patches that have to be replaced periodically, like the Quality Unit patch. How about a special shoulder loop with gold trim and/or the current year to denote a QU??? Easy and cheap!

[hops_scout]

I dont do the sewing at my house, but I do agree with not having to replace things so much. BDU stuff is much cheaper and more effective than anything in scoutstuff's warehouse most likely. I have a catalog right here and it was a pair of BDU pants for about $25 dollars!!

[scoutldr]

As a trainer, I don't advocate openly anything but full BSA uniforming. If asked, I will quote BSA policy. However, I did recently purchase a pair of new OD green BDU pants from www.military.com for $18.99. For district/Council meetings, Courts of Honor, camporee opening and closing ceremonies, and training sessions, I'll gladly wear my $40 pair of cheaply made official BSA trousers...for troop meeetings, camping, hiking, and other things, I'll stick to my $20 BDUs or $12 blue jeans (Costco), so I won't have a fit if I rip out a knee or splatter bacon grease on them. The BSA needs to get real. $43 for a shirt (XXL at the local Scout Shop) and $38 for pants is ridiculous. And for those who don't know, there is officially no such thing as a "Class A" or "Class B" uniform. As far as BSA is concerned, you are either in uniform, or not.

 

BY the way, I attended the Council Trainer Development Conference yesterday, and we were sternly and rudely lectured by the senior staff guy present (6 rows of square knots, including a "Silver Antelope") for wearing "half a uniform" (some had blue jeans on, in accordance with their unit custom or policy). Having spent a great deal of time reading the "Insignia Guide", I then started looking for a Council or District rep on the course staff who had all of their stuff in the right place...guess what, I didn't find one. What did I find? Wearing troop numbers with a Council or District position patch...position patches in the wrong positions (should be touching CSP - Position 2, if there are no unit numbers), wearing the "trained" strip for the wrong position, adults wearing unapproved patrol patches, too many Quality Unit patches (only the latest one earned may be worn and then only by unit scouters, not district or council scouters), OA lodge "trader flaps" on the pocket flap, Brotherhood and Vigil members wearing an Ordeal flap (different color borders), no service stars, wrong color shoulder loops, no OA pocket ribbons, "Proud Parent" ribbons, etc, etc, etc.

 

The moral of this diatribe is two-fold: make sure your own uniform is perfect (check a uniform inspection sheet and the Insignia Guide if you don't know) before you dare to criticize others, and 2) the way uniforming is currently done, I will need 4 different shirts, costing almost $200 (with patches)depending on which meeting I'm going to, to be considered "properly uniformed"....that's unreasonable, and it ain't gonna happen.

[OldGreyEagle]

Do you see a correlation in the shrinking number of volunteer hours and receiving a stern and rude lecture from a senior staff member? Instead of thanking you guys for being there and hanging in there during difficult times, the spliting of the District and all. You are there for training and get a lecture?

 

Wonder why volunteers are down?

 

[hops_scout]

I agree!!

[scoutldr]

Yes, there is a correlation! More than a few have thrown in the towel after a run-in with the Council/District staff, both professional and volunteer. That's how I got the training job...the last guy showed up at the Council office and turned in his "training kit" and said, "I quit." And he quit everything, even his Unit position. Now I understand. Seems to me that the volunteer Scouter cadre should be catered to and made to feel valued and appreciated...not as additional "staff" to be dictated to and ordered around like low-level employees. I get enough of that at work, and I'm NOT going to tolerate it as a volunteer.

[KoreaScouter]

We've debated this so many times, it's become like the old "less filling, tastes great" commercials.

 

Unless and until BSA makes the uniform mandatory for all participants, this will continue. Right now, all you can do is "encourage" full uniforming.

 

Let's keep our perspective. The uniform is one of only 8 methods. It's important, of course, but is it more important than the patrol method? That's one of the 8 methods, too, and some troops don't use it at all...

 

KS

[anarchist]

ahh the uniform debate, its been a while since I checked things out...seems more and more folks are agreeing with us that the current 'garb' is close to garbage. I agree that the BDU is tops, and perhaps if Texas really wanted to they could tighten up the cut somewhat to make the appearance somewhat sharper. But in the end, my uniform argument is: we are an OUTDOOR 'uniformed' movement, not a bunch of 'dress soldiers'. The basic uniform should be field wear first, dress wear second... {OUT is 3/5ths of scout}

 

I just dropped $77.00 for a uniform for my oldest scout's life to eagle conference (shirt he needed, bsa pants he didn't but was required...) the bdu's we use on camping events are just soooooo much better; quality, utility, fit (now and next year too. I think we should do a mass email to BSA and keep it up until they cry uncle...or BDU....

[SR540Beaver]

This thread is so old, I don't remember if I said this here or not, so I'll possibly just say it again. I'd like to see an all purpose uniform. By that I mean instead of shorts and pants and long sleeves and short sleeves, how about one pant and one shirt that has zip on/off sleeves and legs. One uniform for any season instead of two seperate uniforms. The pants need double knnes and crotches and the shirts need double elbows. Make them roomy enough to wear long johns underneath. What would be really cool is if there was a seperately purchased flannel liner that could snapped in and out of the pants. The pockets on the pants need to be bigger, including usable cargo pockets. A couple of D ring sewn into the waistband for snaping gear to would be nice. Adjustable tab waistbands for a custom fit would be nice too. While we are at it, lose the neckerchiefs. They serve no purpose other than window dressing. I think that is the part of the uniform that makes many of the boys not want to wear their uniform because they think it looks "dorky". My son has tried to talk a number of his friends into joining and everyone of them has complained about having to wear the uniform. Perhaps a more modern (cool) uniform would entice more boys to join. I don't think they need to look like a BDU dressed combat soldier, but they need to have a uniform that is distinctive and usable in the outdoors. I think it could be made in such a way as to look sharp for dress too. Instead of the neckerchief, perhaps different color combo hats with a more modern cut could be worn. Just a few ideas I had if I were charged with making up a uniform for an outdoor oriented group.

[hops_scout]

We wouldnt look like soldiers in combat. The pants would be olive drab, not woodland camo. Also, in winter we dont need to wear a uniform on a campout therefore there would be no need for long sleeve uniform shirts.

[SR540Beaver]

Hops,

 

The need for a long sleeve shirt is for any activity during winter period. I see many scouts who opt to buy only one shirt and it is short sleeve. During the winter, they wear a variety of different colored long sleeve shirts underneath their uniform shirt. Whether it is to a meeting, a campout or a community activity. It distracts from a "uniformed" look. Many scouts don't wear a uniform during summer campouts either. Just for traveling and flag ceremonies. The idea is to have a uniform that is usable in the field also, not just ceremonies or dress.

[KoreaScouter]

The way I see it, much about our uniform is inspired by or a continuation of our traditions and history. That's okay, but it can be "limiting".

 

Take the neckerchief. Now, for the record, our Scouts don't consider ours "dorky" -- they custom-designed them and they are distinctive. That said, the main argument given in favor of the neckerchief is that it can be used as a sling, bandage, or to secure a splint or tourniquet. However, the situations during which those incidents are most likely to occur are the situations in which we're wearing activity shirts, not class As.

 

How about the wool jac-shirt? Expensive and mainly decorative (but adopted by the OA as their official jacket, so it'll be around forever). The only catalog alternative is the windbreaker. For purposes of comparison, I recently got a Polartec fleece jacket, nylon lined, 2-way zipper, 2 external zipper pockets, 2 internal mesh pockets, with zipper armpit vents, velcro cuff closures, etc., etc. Not cheap at $70, but for that design, those features, and the performance in the field, it's worth it, especially compared with a jac-shirt.

 

Our catalog is full or examples like this. Why does BSA still sell that crappy plastic flashlight they know won't survive the first campout?

 

My impression is that Scouters and Scouts don't object to spending money for gear, if they're getting their money's worth (A Scout is thrifty, after all).

 

I took the poll at the Scoutstuff.org site, and it suffers from the same design problem many polls do -- you can only answer the questions they ask you, with just the answer choices they provide.

 

BTW, I firmly believe the long sleeved shirt isn't even intended for unit level Scouters -- it's for District-and-above critters who spend most of their time indoors...

 

I'll tell you, if it wasn't for the boys, this would be pretty aggravating. This minor uniform stuff is offset for me by things like our COH at last night's troop meeting...11 rank advancements, 25 merit badges, training certificates, appointment certificates, a pot luck, and a gift exchange...smiles and fun all around...makes the cut of the pants seem less significant.

 

KS