moosetracker 132 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Does anyone else think something is off when you compare this post, and the post about the declining BSA scouts?.. I mean how do we get so many more eagle scouts between 2002 & 2001 and only 4% of scouts make it.. And the average age of the Eagle scout has raised for the age of 14.6 to the age of 17.1... (meaning alot more scouts for only 4% of our scouts making Eagle, they have to stay in the program longer..).. Yet from the other thread BSA's 2011 annual report shows continuing annual declines in membership and revenues. I am not a statician.. But, I just don't see these two reports jiving??.. Who is doing the creative statics?? Link to post Share on other sites
JMHawkins 15 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I am not a statician.. But, I just don't see these two reports jiving??.. Good observation. The only possible explaination is that the percentage of Scouts awarded Eagle is higher today than in the past. Even if it's only 4%, it has to be higher for there to be more Eagles when there are fewer Scouts. Link to post Share on other sites
bnelon44 17 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 More information here: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/marketing/pdf/eaglescoutsinformationgraphic.pdf I notice a decline in the 70s. There was a general decline in membership in the 70s as well. However the requriements for Eagle changed then too. In 1972 requirements also increased the number of merit badges required for Eagle rose to 24. However, just 10 badges were required, letting Scouts choose 14 elective badges. Changes in the required badges and lower ranks meant that in the 70s a boy could, in theory, become an Eagle Scout without ever going camping, hiking, or swimming. That ended in 1979. The introduction of a required project was in 1965, it didn't seem to stop the growth of the number of eagles during the 60s. But that was also the height of the "baby boomer" generation being in their teens.(This message has been edited by bnelon44) Link to post Share on other sites
BSA24 10 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 > Who is doing the creative statics?? No one. The Eagle Award is given out far more frequently today than previously. The membership numbers are falling, and a higher percentage of boys are receiving the award. 4% instead of the previous Link to post Share on other sites
desertrat77 1144 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 As a '70s era scout, I can offer a few differences between then and now. In the '70s, Eagle rank had prestige, but there was almost none of the hype that you see from National today. In fact, I don't recall any Eagle hype. If you earned it, great. If not, that's okay, I hope you enjoyed camping and being in the troop. Despite the fact a scout could theoretically earn Eagle without camping, I don't remember one that did. The seasoned scouters that lead the various troops I was in were big on the outdoors. Why do scouts wait till the last minute to finish Eagle today? I think earning the rank is much more tedious, in the administrative sense, that it was back in the day. It's always been difficult to earn, but there is alot more red tape today, it seems to me. I think today's Eagles are avoiding the hassles until they absolutely have to sit down and deal with it. Seems more of a chore today than a journey. Regardless of how old they are, more scouts are earning Eagle. College apps, driven parents, and MB universities will not wait! Gotta fill that binder full of congratulations letters from people who don't know you!(This message has been edited by desertrat77) Link to post Share on other sites
fred8033 1594 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 desertrat77 wrote: "there was almost none of the hype that you see from National today" Really? Eagle has always been hyped. But I agree that the average scout is more motivated to earn Eagle. IMHO, there might be fewer scouts, but scouts in the program are much more motivated to earn Eagle. That itself can cause a big statistical shift. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Yep I've seen more emphasis, a heck of a lot more, placed on being Eagle than when I was a yute. Another factor I'm willing to bet on is the "one and done" mentality of rank advancement instead of the mastery of skills mentality. Kinda sad when an Eagle can't tie knots, or talk to you about various things he did to earn merit badges and rank. Also sad when literature from national promotes this idea of "one and done" in its training materials fro training new adults. I am speaking specifically of the IOLS syllabus that says to have the participants get signed off on the outdoor skills as they do them. Sorry a weekend of training does not make you an outdoorsman. Another factor is the use of appeals. I never heard of an appeal on a BOR's decision until after becoming an adult. Now it's common knowledge, and some of the cases I've heard and seen make you want to scratch your head as to "How did he win his appeal?" Link to post Share on other sites
desertrat77 1144 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Fred, in the three councils I was in as a youth (two in the states, one overseas), I recall no hype, no bandwagon, etc, for earning Eagle. And nothing from National, except a mention in the handbook. The prevailing attitude was "you want Eagle, better get to work." Concur, Eagle92, the "one and done" ideal is misguided, produces weak scouts and scouters, and encourages pencil whipping of requirements. That is a big change from the past. Once you learned a skill, you can bet you were tested again and again, during patrol competition at troop meetings, during every board of review for subsequent ranks, and while you taught the skill to others. Your SM was watching and if you didn't remember something, you were going to hear about it. I realize that is all ancient history. After all, we must not hurt feelings, because a scout's positive self image is the most important thing. Which is baloney. The scouts are far more intelligent and capable than many adults think. It's the adults who are often on shaky ground for self confidence, and then tend to coddle rather than challenge. Link to post Share on other sites
shortridge 184 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Why do Scouts wait longer to earn it? I think the answer lies with the boring classroom-work MBs, the Citizenships and PersMgt and FamLife. Those are mind-numbing to your average gung-ho outdoor-oriented camper. They get put off and delayed and pushed back and procrastinated over. Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 "Then"... my recollection is that when I was a Scout, the majority of the guys who made Eagle (which did not include me) made it when they were 17. And "now"... in "my" troop, the majority of the Scouts who have made Eagle during my involvement (almost 10 years) have been 17. I would say about 90 percent have been 17 at the time their completed application (pre-BOR) was submitted, and probably about 70 percent of the total have been in the last 6 months before their 18th birthday. We have had our share of "last minute" completions, including my son. However, none of those have been Scouts who were inactive for a year or two or three and then "came back" to "finish Eagle." All of our Eagles have been active continuously, although some may have missed a few more meetings and camping trips than they had when they were younger. I do recall one who did leave and wanted to come back when he was 17, but I think he was also trying to get the SM to "count" his "inactive" (including unregistered) time toward his "active" requirements for Life (and maybe Star as well), the SM would not do it, and I believe the Scout then went to another unit. (I later heard that he had made Eagle -- perhaps helped along by another troop that read the requirements a bit differently than ours did.) As for "young Eagles", I believe our youngest has been 15, and there was only one of those. Actually our experience has been pretty similar to the list posted by CA_Scouter, though in addition to the one 15-year-old we have had a couple make it when they were 16. One of those also earned five or six palms, which was a new record for our troop, and not likely to be repeated very soon. We have yet another one coming down to the wire right now, with about four months left to go and still in the process of getting approvals for his project proposal. Link to post Share on other sites
fred8033 1594 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 "... is the "one and done" mentality ..." ... And of course the grumpy old debate raises it's apocalyptic zombie head yet again. Link to post Share on other sites
bnelon44 17 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think the paperwork associated with the Eagle project is a turn off. I notice as the paperwork increases, so does the age of new Eagles. Link to post Share on other sites
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