Eagle Projects

[SeattlePioneer 144]

So....

 

How valuable are Eagle projects?

 

How valuable to the Scout, the benefitting organization, the Troop, the community?

 

How beneficial is it to have a formal and bureaucratic approval process that a Scout must follow?

 

Does this really build "leadership skills"?

 

How often are the Scouts doing the Eagle Project and how often are the parents or Troop Leaders main actors?

 

 

Would you continue Eagle projects as requirements, end the practice or modify it in specific ways if you were consulted about such options?

[KC9DDI 11]

The value and benefit of the projects are clearly dependent on the specifics of each individual project. I think that in general the experience of doing the project is enormously beneficial to the Scout. Clearly it should be of value to the benefitting organization, or they wouldn't have approved it. I don't think anyone really intends for the troop to benefit directly, other than potentially giving other Scouts in the troop the opportunity to accrue service hours and put the Oath and Law into practice.

 

The approval process is quite bureaucratic, but I think that it actually serves a purpose. Developing the organizational and communication skills to present the idea to the appropriate parties, get feedback and make adjustments are all good skills that will serve you well beyond Scouting. Same as building the communication, time management and scheduling skills to work with the benefitting agency.

 

I think that a good project will absolutely build leadership skills - in terms of recruiting the appropriately skilled people to assist with the project, coordinating between multiple involved parties, measuring progress and success, and overcoming obstacles and changed plans.

 

So, in general, I certainly don't have any problem with the Eagle project. I'm sure that there's some units/districts/councils/Scouts/Scouters that make the process more/less complicated than it should be, and alter the value and benefits that results, but I don't see any problem overall...

[ASM162 20]

I think that I would keep Eagle Projects just as they are.

There is a protocol that must be followed by the Life Scout to get the project approved.

This helps with adult association, and project management.

The Life scout has to keep the benefactor of the project updated concerning the approval process, and come to an agreement as to when the project can start. Also, he must determine how long the project will take, and come to an agreement with the benefactor as to what constitutes completeion of the project.

We must remember that the average age of the Life Scout, at this point in his scouting career is probably 14-15 years old. The Eagle Project workbook is IMO, just about right; though I do think that Eagle projects are better suited for older scouts 16 1/2 to 17 yrs, 364 days.

One thing that I might change is to have parent(s) of the Life Scout not particpate in the project directly. They can help in the background with drinks, snacks and such, but just keep back during the execution of the project.

[BadenP 93]

 

As far as Eagle projects are concerned the only thing I would change is the criteria of what an appropriate Eagle project is and setting some perameters. For example a scout who spends weeks developing and building a nature trail in a park with ID signs, laying a pathway, removing debris and in the end there is a resouce for the public to enjoy and understand more about nature versus a scout who goes to a local paint store, gets them to donate some paint and then and goes paint three benches at his church on one Saturday with one other scout. Both of these were approved Eagle projects on two EBOR's I sat on during the same day some years back. Now which of these do you think was truly a legitimate Eagle project? This is what I mean by there being a serious inconsistancy in what truly qualifies as an Eagle Project. Some scouts skirt through this requirement giving,IMO, much less than minimal effort in the type and execution of their projects.

 

The guidelines currently in place are too open ended and need to be tightened up.

[Eagle92 110]

How valuabble is the project for the Scout: EXTREMELY

 

How valuable to the organization: Depends

 

How valuable to the troop; EXTEMELY

 

How Valuable to the community: Depends

 

Does it really build leadership skills: YES IF the scout does the work and nor parents and/or leaders.

 

Would I continue: ABSOLUTELY

 

The project IMHO is meant to be the culmination of his career, utilizing all the leadership skills and abilities he has acquired. It is meant for him to understand "Duty to Others" It allows the entire unit to help out in contribution to service, as well as publicity. That's whyI say ABSOLUTELY

 

I say it depends, b/c I have seen 1 project be a complete and total failure in the long term and have heard of others here on the boards. the project I know about that was a "failure" was a reforestation project that one scout did that took about a month of prep work ( building metal guards to protect saplings) and month of planting. It was a great project and looked great when immediately done. 6-8 months later he visits the place, and every single sapling he planted was destroyed by the rodent that the guards he built were suppose to protect the saplings from.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Thats the great part of internet forums, you get glimpses of how things are done not in your backyard

 

I had always thought the Eagle Leadership project was the culimination of the scouts training, he already has leadership skills learned during his POS time since Star Scout, the Eagle Project is not to learn leadership skills, its to hone them

 

Perhaps its a triffle, but if a life scout has to learn leadership, the program has failed My opinion only as always

[SeattlePioneer 144]

>

 

 

About ten years ago the city park department rebuilt a street end park near me located on a navigable waterway. About three years later, beavers I never knew were in the river felled a half dozen poplar trees that were within about six feet or so of the shoreline. The trees were about 6" in diameter at the time.

 

I guess it can happen to the best of 'em --- and this one was presumably designed by professional landscapers.

[Oak Tree 15]

How valuable to the Scout

 

Depends, but I've generally seen this be a pretty positive experience for the Scout. The planning process is not always great, and it can result in a lot of nagging by parents, but I'll give a plus to this one.

 

 

the benefiting organization,

 

Depends again. Most of the projects appear to be something that the organization truly needs. We may have a small number where the organization didn't keep it up (e.g., a refurbished park area becomes overgrown) or where the idea was more the Scout's than the organizations (e.g., how about I put up some signs marking this trail?). On average, the organizations are getting some pretty good work, though.

 

the Troop

 

Definitely good for the younger guys to see the older ones leading these projects. The service work is a good time for people to come together and meet each other.

 

the community?

 

Varies a lot. It depends on how much the community makes use of the organization. Some of our public parks have bridges in wet areas and they get tons of use. Other projects may see a lot less use by the general public.

 

How beneficial is it to have a formal and bureaucratic approval process that a Scout must follow?

 

Again, it depends. It depends a lot on how bureaucratic we're talking about. In our district they recently simplified the process a lot, trying to get down to the minimum requirements of the BSA (i.e., following the "no more" part of "No more, no less"). The old process was way out of hand. It was not beneficial. It was a detriment to every Scout, as far as I was concerned. The new process is a lot better. It seems very reasonable, and I think it's of the level that's appropriate for a Scout to work through.

 

Does this really build "leadership skills"?

 

Yes. Absolutely. As long as mom and dad don't do all the work.

 

How often are the Scouts doing the Eagle Project and how often are the parents or Troop Leaders main actors?

 

I don't know. Behind the scenes, I often suspect the parents are doing a lot of the work. Out in front of the group, we generally have the Scout in charge. People know this and so they reinforce it with each other. My oldest son was 17 when he did his project and he wouldn't even tell me when they were having their work days. He'd just text five of his friends from the troop, they'd all drive over. I stopped by with lunch for them one time - there were no adults present, nor did there need to be. That was one extreme. At the other end are projects where the dad is basically coaching the son on everything ("Don't you think you should have those guys start working on moving the logs?").

 

Getting the plans in, though - I think that varies a lot, and there are some cases where I'm fairly sure the parent is at least standing over the Scout telling him what to type, if not actually doing some of the work themselves. In addition, it seems to be highly common for the parent to provide the initiative - I've had some parents sit back and say "It's all up to him" and then nothing happens, whereas proactive parents who help provide some framework are more likely to make progress. ("Bob, let's brainstorm what a schedule would look like for completing your Eagle project.") Also, if parents are willing to provide all of the financial support for a project, that can remove an obstacle.

 

In that sense, Scouts have very unequal situations to work with.

 

Would you continue Eagle projects as requirements, end the practice

 

I would continue it. It's a huge part of the BSA brand in the public eye and generally good for the Scouts and the troops.

 

or modify it in specific ways

 

My biggest concern with the project is that it's very unequal from Scout to Scout, from troop to troop, and from council to council, and this is true for many aspects of the project.

 

- I'd like to see the process made much more regular from district to district, with a reduction in the bureaucracy.

- I really think there need to be guidelines to the size of project that is expected. "Enough to show leadership" is an exceptionally vague requirement, and in the absence of common practice, I could imagine interpreting that as 2 hours of work or 200 hours of work in different situations.

- Troops can vary by how supportive the troop is - do they keep a list of potential Eagle projects? Do they come to the Scout and ask him if he wants to do one of those, or pick his own? Do they have an adult who will sit down with him and coach him through the process? Do they have enough Scouts that will show up at Eagle service projects? Because of this type of variation (and similar variation in other parts of the program), you will tend to see some troops that produce Eagle after Eagle, even though their average Scout isn't any more talented than Scouts in other troops. And I'm not saying those Eagles don't deserve it. It's just that troops that remove obstacles can have a lot more Eagles than troops that don't. I'd like to see that variation reduced, but I'm not sure exactly what I'd recommend to do that.

- Parental support is also a huge factor. I'd like to see the impact of that variation reduced in some fashion.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

There seem to be three breeds of Eagles ----

 

 

1. Those who are self motivated to manage and organize their Eagle project themselves and generally to do their best.

 

2. Those who have a motivated Troop that manages and organize the Eagle project in significant ways on behalf of the Scout, defining the easiest way to complete a project.

 

3. Parents who carry their son into the Eagle's nest by providing aid and assistance as needed.

 

 

I doubt there is a lot you can do about breeds 2 and 3.

 

Does anyone want to suggest additional breeds of this bird?

 

Does anyone care to estimate the percentages of each breed?

 

 

I recall a parent asking me about whether they should pay for materials for their son's Eagle project, which they could easily do. I suggested that raising the money or getting donations of material was really a part of the project, and the father thought that was a reasonable idea.

 

But how many bother asking?

 

 

 

[Twocubdad 665]

I think Oak Tree covered it pretty well.

 

My biggest concern is with the proposal process. Here it's nuts. One of my ASMs is s Six-Sigma instructor and he looks at Eagle proposals and shakes his head. Thirty page proposals aren't uncommon. We have a required, 40+ point check list which must be submitted with proposals. My Scouts routinely put as many hours in planning a project as they do implementing it.

 

Why? Where in the program to we teach boys to plan projects like this? Our council has a real slant toward construction projects. With the demise of shop classes, where do any of the boys learn the woodworking skills to build a lot of these projects? In variably, there's an adult somewhere in the process directing the construction.

 

I will add that I like challenging projects. The more you put into one the more you get out of it. Scouts with project over 200 manhours sooner or later have to really roll up their sleeves and LEAD to get through the project. 100-hour projects don't seem to be pretty predictable and don't enough twists and turns to require a Scout to "analyze, adapt and overcome."

[Eagle92 110]

One thing I have a question as I hear it alot, Where is everyone keep getting a 100 hour requirement for Eagle projects?

 

I know there was no such requirement when I was doing my project, although I bet I easily went over that with planning, getting approvals, recruiting, and executing the project.

 

Just curious.

[Stosh 3452]

I have always had a problem with the Eagle projects. Far too often I see it more of accomplishing a task rather than showing leadership.

 

Where is the leadership when it is the SM or some other adult that makes the suggestion for the project?

 

Where is the leadership when the project is critiqued and evaluated by multiple adults prior to it's submission?

 

Where is the leadership when all the rules pertaining to the project are established by the scouter leadership?

 

etc.

 

I have seen more leadership out of Star and Life scouts that organize and prepare the troop for Camporees, Popcorn Sales, Summer Camp, etc. than I have on a lot of "Eagle Projects".

 

I had a boy who was dissatisfied with our summer camp experience. Went on line and found a camp that fit more into the needs of the troop. Registered us, organized/collected the finances, lined up rides, signed up all the boys for MB's, and made sure all the equipment for the camp was in place. All this to go to a camp we had never been to before!!! There were 2 patrols (15 boys) that went that year. For an Eagle project this boy cleaned up after a construction project for his church. Picked up garbage, raked the sand, planted some shrubbery and prepped the area for the professional landscapers. His Eagle project was a walk in the park compared to some of the other leadership demonstrations he had done earlier.

 

I had a First Class scout (13 year-old) take on the Popcorn Sale this past year. He motivated the boys, lined up numerous show-and-sells, got the boys together to canvass neighborhoods, turned in weekly sale sheets so boys could win prizes, collected up all the sheets at the end, placed the order, picked up the product, and made sure all the boys got what they needed for their customers. It was the most successful Popcorn Sale in troop history. (not in $$'s but in amount of product processed!)

 

It is unfortunate that leadership is measured more in terms of Eagle projects that clean up parks than for what I call true leadership shown by the boys in their "normal" activities.

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

 

 

[GKlose 24]

"3. Parents who carry their son into the Eagle's nest by providing aid and assistance as needed."

 

I see two versions of this...

 

Let me begin with a short story. A friend, years ago, tells me about the way his dad treated him when he was a kid. Dad would get frustrated watching his kid do something, such as trying to hammer together a bird house. Dad would take away the hammer from the kid, do it himself, and then afterward say "look what you did!".

 

So I see #3 as splitting into two parts, and I've seen both on recent Eagle projects in our troop. One parent did provide aid and assistance as needed, probably with some aggressive nagging involved (due to the impending "aging out"). The other parent pretty much did the project, by choosing the project, arranging the work crew, scheduling everything and everyone, and probably directed the work day (I don't know about that part, as I wasn't there, but I am guessing based on past history). Since I coordinate the troop's online calendar, I received email allegedly written by the Scout, but it came from the parent's account. The text was not constructed in a way that I would attribute to a 17-yr-old. Like my friend with the dad and the hammer, I think this project is a kind of a "look what you did" scenario.

 

Guy

[Eagle92 110]

The longer I am on this board, the more thankful I am of the SM I had, Mr. Joe, and the troop I was in. We were a "hiking and camping troop," and the youth were in charge, for better or worse. We were not perfect, not by a long shot, but we did alot on our own.

 

And that included the service projects. Now grant you I did mine back in the day when the form was a one page form, and not the booklet it became, but we were the ones who picked our projects. Yes we did have to get the approvals and we had discussions, but Mr. Joe, and the other leaders, both youth and adult, would always ask questions and made us think, coming up with our own answers.

 

I remember one project was organizing a blood drive. Ok the scouts in hte troop didn't do much, we went door to door passing out flyers, help set up, did the sign in at the event and passed out cookies and juice, but the Eagle had to secure lcoations, organzie, etc. He was intersted in medicine, and it was up his alley. Another scout saw a need for books on tape, and organized his project put the Bible on tape for reproduction for several nursing homes. Another project I rememebr was making and distributing hurricane emergency kits to needy families. We came up withe the projects based upon our interests and experiences.

 

Any sorry for the ramble.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

The 100 hours is a "Arrgghhh Guideline", it came about when the Eagle Application form changed. Now they ask for how many hours the candidates project took.

 

Well the 100 hours is a guideline in the council I serve, Why? Because its the most asked question, how many hours should an Eagle project take? As many as it takes to finish the job was my first answer, but then comes the question of scope. If you say it should take 100 hours, then the scout can see how "big" the project should be and how many people it takes et al.

 

Now, if it takes less than 100 hours, no biggie as there is no requirment for hours but I can tell you if an Eagle project comes in at 45 hours, there are lots of questions. So, 99 hours is fine and 45 is not, 98 is fine but 46 is not. At what point does it meet? There is none, each case is separate and distinct.

 

As for 40 point check lists? I agree they are stupid, but after many years in the Advancement game, I understand how they could evolve. Somebody got a bug up their butt that so&so's Eagle project from that troop over there was not a "real" Eagl project and caused a ruckus and the answer was to be sure everyones project was above reproach and to do so, voila, the check list. The concept of telling the complainers to take a hike is not an option, I guess.