visited an Eagle Project, had to bite our tongue!

[moosetracker 132]

My husband is the Advancement Chair for our District.. So for him giving advice at an Eagle project comes naturally.

 

We went on a community walk and ran into someone we knew from a troop we used to belong to.. We changed troops maybe a year after being there, and also changed districts (so this troop is not in the district my husband Chairs).. Anyway there is still some tension, where they think we left because our son was sub-par and couldn't handle their elite troop.. (Son is now 20.. You know get over it) But ...yadda.. yadda.. yeah your son had social problems ..yadda.. yadda.. your son had issues with our boys huh?.. (We would defend with "still in scouts, adult leader, outdoor coordinator, on district Eagle board, just got engaged to a great girl.."..) Long story but basically their troop takes in about 40 crossovers from different towns a year, picks out about 10 who are elite enough for their troop, and belittle the other boys until they leave the troop with lower self-esteem then when they came. We chose to leave before they damaged our son too badly. I think few people left the troop to go elsewhere, and that our son proved able to continue the program to Eagle, and not be a failure was an issue for them. But, since then the troop leaders had changed and I was told they had troop leaders who were fair with all the boys. Few besides this guy are still involved from our days.

 

Anyway, this troop was doing an Eagle project a little past the meeting spot of the walk. We noted it before the walk and after the walk, we decided to check it out.. We were warned by the guy we were talking to that due to power tools, some of the work was being done by the adults.. Which is understandable, BSA saftey rules. Went over and there were two adults and 4 boys building and oversized kiosk.. No power tools at this time. The four legs of the Kiosk were in holes and they were filling the holes.. All direction came from the two adults.. You do this, You take this shovel and fill over here. We need someone over here to be doing this..

 

I didnt even look at my husband, if he hadnt said anything yet I knew he was holding back. I made one friendly comment to the guy we were talking to something like Nice, whos Eagle Project is this? I was pointed out the young man whose project it was, who was diligently working and following directions of the adults. We stayed a little while longer, said some nice things about how the project was turning out and left.

 

We got in the car, and my husband said Man did I want to say something.. I just commented that I bet he did. His worst pet peeve is parents doing the Eagle project for their sons.. Usually a few well placed words, makes them step back, or you give them the project of camera person, involved doing something useful, but not anywhere where they should step in to direct.

But this Eagle project was not being done by our Troop, Not in the District my husband is Advancement Chair for, and our history with them would only irate the guy we had a past history with.. (Everyone who was actually working the project had joined the troop since we left). Anyway we just didnt see it as our place to point out and correct their flaws.

 

Would you have said something?

 

[Scoutfish 16]

Nah, I think you did the right thing. Based on trhe past history, the tension that still exists and the fact that some "former collegues" seem to have a great view of anal anatomy....then nothing you would have said would have mattered.

 

We all know the type too.

 

You could point out that washing your hands with gasoline and drying with a blow torch are a bad idea....and "THAT" person would swear on their flaming 3rd degree deathbed that you are just trying to cause trouble because you are jealous and do not like them because of YOUR issues.

 

LOL!

 

Nothing you say would be taken constructively even if Maccuza ( sp?) himself backed you up on it.

 

The sad thing is, the kid is getting robbed and the egos in charge would rather screw the kid than consider anything you might possibly say.

 

 

You can't talk a broken ship out of sinking....all you can do is swim away...oh wait, that is for Sea Base! LOL! (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

[jhankins 10]

There's a few issues here.

 

The Guide to Safe Scouting states there are two power tools that Boy Scouts can not use. Pop Quiz -- which two?

 

Secondly, The title of the workbook Life Scouts use is "The Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project." By just walking by and seeing an adult going through the mechanics of a project does a "fail" on a Eagle Board make. We don't know what the boy did to organize the project, recruit the adults, solicit the supplies, recruit the helpers, find the site, etc...

 

A wise man once said that "leadership is the art of getting people to do something they don't want to do, and like it."

 

Remember your Wood Badge training, leaders lead best by first serving -- living the golden rule.

 

In that case, I would think that this boy did some of that.

[moosetracker 132]

I know chainsaws were one of them, the other one I don't know..

 

Oh seeing one small section definately doesn't flunk the scout. It is just, had we been in our district, maybe even out of our district had my husband would have corrected the behavior. Parents step in all the time, they just need gentle reminders, as to what their positions should be, and that their help in this situation is not helpful. They usually are greatful for the reminder if done constructively to be helpful, and not to be critical.. Even outside our district had we been with someone we knew from another troop and the relationship wasn't so tense, I am sure my husband wouldn't have said anything to the group, but to the person we knew, so that they could gently guide the parents...

 

We did though have one scout who a) wasn't the best scout, b) everyone who worked on his project stated the mother was the leaders.. I unfortunately was one of the only adult non-parents who worked on the project. After several reports from the scouts, the SM came to me for a report.. I had been impressed that this boy serious kept seriously busy on the project, and didn't really think about who was directing it.. But, even though I put in a good word for the boys work ethic to be truthful his mother was the leader..

 

The SM on the feedback he got, held the boy back. He would not sign his Eagle project, and there was a great demand from district and council that he do so. He would not, until the boy spent 6 more months in the troop showing leadership and scout spirit.. The Father (who had been the CC) broke from the troop on the issue. But the boy did come back, and was the perfect scout, and earned his Eagle Rank with that.. In the long run it was the best thing for the boy, but sad his project was overshadowed by this.

 

All our troop parents are greatful to be "warned" if they are interfering, so that they can back off.. They will even ask before the project to please let them know if they get "too involved"..

 

They want to be told early in order to correct it, rather then hear "too late" what everyone is whispering behind their backs. They want their sons Eagle project to go well.

[artjrk 11]

A simple tactic I use as a SM during Eagle Projects if I see an adult taking over. I first go up to the Scout and ask for an update on how things are going and what he has various people doing. Then I will pull the adult aside and chat him/her up, usually pointing out the good things the scout is doing and such. Hopefully the adult will see that the kid is able to do the leading on his own. Also my aim is to keep the adult occupied so that they won't be able to interfere. Many of my scouts joke that I'm just standing around yakking but I have my motives.

[jhankins 10]

My favorite question to ask a Life Scout at his BOR: How did you find the experience of leading adults during your project planning and its execution?

 

I love hearing these answers, and it forces the boy to consider what's happening under his nose. Some said it sucked to lead adults who still saw them as kids, other said the adults appreciated the take charge behavior, and others took charge and put some adults in their places.

 

I think that's all part of the learning experience, and I don't think in any way should it inhibit a boy from getting Eagle-- we live and learn and that's a large part of the idea of the project.

[Eagledad 2780]

log spliter

[Eagledad 2780]

Same problem on Philmont treks, adults not being "the" adult when the scouts are doing the adult responsibilities is a skill that has to be practiced. And that is only if the adults want that skill. It gets worse if the project isn't going well because adults don't want to take two steps back. I remember eating one mile of trail before the crew leader realize his mistake.

 

What I started doing as the SM was have a meeting with the lead adult working on the eagle projects or treks and instruct them of their behavior that was expected by the troop. Sometimes that might even be a parent, which makes it harder. In the case of an Eagle Project, it was the lead adult's responsibility to meet with all the other adults before the project that the scout was the boss, and to remind them during the project. Even with that, its hard to stop.

 

I also find that if the SM doesn't guide or support boy led to the adults, nobody else really can make it happen.

 

Barry