Star Board of Review - Legal before 4 months?

[markrvp 10]

In our troop we have a Scout eligible to become Star on May 25th. He has completed ALL the requirements for Star except the 4 month commitment. We have a regular meeting where a Board of Review can be held on May 24th. Is it legal to have the Board of Review on the 24th, and then advance the scout to Star on the 25th?

 

Our troop committee believes that it is impermissible to have the Board of Review until ALL requirements have been met, including the 4 month requirement. I am looking for a definitive answer yay or nay, and any supporting information from BSA that I can point to our Committee chairman to confirm or contradict his ruling.

 

It wouldn't be an issue except that there won't be another board of review for 3 months and I hate to see this scout have to wait 7 months to reach Star.

[nldscout 18]

The answer is NO, what part of he has not met the 4 month requirement do they not understand?

 

The answer is schedule another BOR for the week after, why would they wait 3 months?

[nolesrule 58]

Your troop should have a copy of the Advancement Committee Policy and Procedures manual, which would answer your question definiteively.

 

"After a Scout has completed all requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star, and Life ranks, or an Eagle Palm, he appears before a board of review." - P. 29 #33088 ACP&P Manual 2008

 

 

Time in rank is one of the requirements, and all requirements MUST be completed first.

 

The correct answer, as nldscout points out, is to schedule a Board of Review for as soon as possible on or after May 25th. They should be held as needed (within reason). If BORs are to be scheduled regularly, at most it should be monthly so as not to make scouts wait too long.

[Vicki 11]

My first concern - in the context of your troop structure, I would certainly go ahead and hold the Board of Review on the 24th. If you hold your meetings, and the Board of Reviews, at the same time, he will have completed four months in rank by the end of the meeting, right? I know it's a very fine point but the scout should not be penalized for the troop's recognition issues.

 

My second concern is that you appear to be holding Boards of Review too infrequently. We do them at the drop of a hat, I understand others do them in a more structured way, but four times a year really isn't often enough (if I read your e-mail correctly).

 

But I would absolutely rethink the Board of Review policy that landed you in this untenable position.

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[markrvp 10]

If I were in charge of Advancement, I'd try and pull together a Board of Review whenever a Scout needs one. It's honestly not that hard to get three people in a room together. I have never been more frustrated in my life than I have been trying to get adult leaders to put their pettiness aside and help out a bunch of kids.

[CalicoPenn 729]

Let's not confuse procedures with policy - it leads down trails we can't get out of.

 

The procedure is that after a Scout has completed the requirements, he appears before a Board of Review. Though that sounds like clear policy, there is also a very clear problem with it. One of the requirements to reach Star is to complete his Board of Review. How does one complete one's Board of Review for rank if one can't have a Board of Review before completing all the requirements? If we follow the procedure as strict policy, then a Scout will need to complete a Board of Review, which completes the requirement, then complete a second Board of Review in order to be granted rank. But that's ridiculous everyone is likely to cry out - and yes it is - but if we want to be strict, it's technically true based on the quote from the manual. IMHO, the procedure is there to prevent Troops from holding a BOR at the beginning of the next rank process, not at the end.

 

Frankly, it's one day - heck - it's even less than a day - it's less than 5 hours (assuming the BOR takes place sometime after 7PM. I think this is one of those times that you make the common sense decision and do the BOR - how much is going to change in a day? Otherwise, hold it next week - not three months from now - don't penalize a lad because the Unit has a strict schedule of BOR's.

 

If it makes everyone in the room feel better, bring in a cloks set to the right time - then before the BOR, experience a roomwide temporal anomaly by setting the clock past midnight so that in that room it's the 25th. Or just dispense with the silliness, do the BOR - and date it the next day.

[DancesWithSpreadsheets 10]

What time zone are you in? Perhaps the BoR could convene on GMT.

 

I know you (and the committee) are trying to do the right thing, but the phrase "pole vaulting over mouse scat" comes to mind.

 

Regards,

DWS

[markrvp 10]

Let me ask another question... who is responsible for scheduling the Board of Review? It seems to me this should be the job of the Advancement Chair. If the advancement chair can call two other committee members and ask them to show up for a BOR, it's a done deal, right?

 

In our troop, the Committee Chair is scheduling BOR's by full committee vote. That just seems overly complicated to me. BSA mandates that Board of Reviews will be held, so a committee can't vote not to not have them.

[John-in-KC 311]

TWO People are responsible for scheduling the BOR:

 

- The Scout, who requests it and reports his availability.

- The CC, or his designated coordinator (advancement guy/gal), who actually puts the board together.

 

BTW, when I was a CC, I chaired BORs, unless I was gone. Coordinator scheduled.

 

QUARTERLY ONLY BOARDS OF REVIEW???

 

Whose GI was that? A quarterly BOR does not serve the Scout, and it certainly does not serve the Committee, whose job it is to evaluate the program and give feedback to the Scoutmaster!!

 

VOTING TO SCHEDULE BOARDS OF REVIEW?

A Scout Troop is not a Fortune 500 company. You get three members of the Committee together and say "Billy's ready for advancement. Let's encourage him on his way." These are kids, for criminy's sake.

 

I endorse what Vicki said! (BTW, V, welcome back!!! )(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Beavah 205]

Yah, hmmmm...

 

My question is "What's the rush?" Is this a lad who is in deadline-neverland, with his 18th birthday fast approaching so that he'll lose a shot at Eagle if he doesn't make Star on the exact date? Well, then, I think yeh flex for the boy. Don't sweat the details. Have the BOR, submit da paperwork on the morrow.

 

For everything else, I think the better lesson for the boy is that the world doesn't revolve around him. His BOR can wait until the next week, or the next month. Having 3 adults spend time with you to help you in your program is a favor to the boy. It's not something that's owed to him. Adults don't owe him their volunteer time. They provide it, and all of Scouting, as a gift.

 

A lad who is really deserving of Star would recognize that a Scout is Courteous, and say "of course I understand, Mr. AC. I'll be happy to wait until the next round if that works better for you. Or if you think the members would be available at another time outside of the meeting schedule before then, I would make myself available if it would help."

 

A lad who demands the prompt time and attention of others I reckon is a spoiled fellow, not a Star Scout.

 

Now, all that having been said, I reckon most of us would agree that a three month delay is a bit long. There are some troops and families where that kind of schedule works well for a variety of reasons. I'm just not fond of it myself. Like most of da folks here, I prefer BOR's to be scheduled more or less according to the needs of the kids. But if quarterly is da norm in your troop, then that's what yeh signed up for, eh? And asking for special consideration is just that - asking for special consideration, and more of someone else's time. It's a favor, not a requirement.

 

As to who schedules a BOR, that just depends on da troop. No one right way of doin' it. Given that doin' 'em quarterly is likely goin' to be a big production that demands a lot of adult horsepower to be present, voting on 'em as part of the committee calendaring isn't a bad notion. It at least gets people on record as having committed to be there to support the effort.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[evmori 11]

Short answer - No.

 

Long answer - No it's not.

[Stosh 3452]

Hmmm.... I don't often disagree with Beavah, but I don't think a boy is spoiled because he doesn't feel it necessary to courteously wait three months for the adults to convene a BOR. The program is FOR THE BOYS. If it takes 3 months for the CC to get a couple of adults together to make it happen for a boy, then there's something wrong with the system.

 

I do SM conferences whenever a boy asks. I don't have office hours where it must be done at a certain time and a certain place on my schedule. So too with the CC. He is aware that it might take a week or two to pull something together, but 3 months? I don't think so. A certain amount of courtesy needs to be given the boy as well. It's a give and take thingy. We must be courteous of the boys' needs as well as they understand it might take a while to pull together a BOR.

 

If the adults would think it ridiculous to sit around on May 24th until midnight to approve the boy's request for a BOR, why would they question the expectation for the boy to sit around for 3 months of his time. 5 hours of their time vs. 3 months of his???? Give me a break! Am I the only one that think's that kinda dumb?

 

If I had to guess on this one, my gut feeling is that this is more of a power thingy and not so much a scheduling problem. This is something a strong adult-led program might want to promote.

 

Stosh

[SSScout 1616]

In some ways it is a good thing to have regularly scheduled BoR. Folks know what to expect and can plan accordingly. OTOH, it is not the best thing to ONLY do it every 90 days for all the reasons promulgated previously.

Our Troop preschedules out CoHs every three months. They are nice ceremonies and everyone looks forward to them. The BoRs are held as needed, a "pick up" game, if you will. The SM tells the CC that Johnny Scout has passed the rank requirements and SM conference, and the CC asks around for Cmembers who will be present either now or next week, say. The Scout then attends the BoR with the Cmembers (and usually the CCh). A new rank is advanced. The badges are awarded at the next CoH, with due pomp and circumstance and punch and cookies.

It is not considered a time critical thing, usually.

[markrvp 10]

"What's the Rush?"

 

Two answers...

 

1.) He's already waited four months to advance, how long do you think he should have to wait?

 

2.) This is the Centennial Anniversary of Scouts. If you haven't been made aware, the rank insignias this year are unique... they say Star Scout 2010, Life Scout 2010, etc. The Scout in question really likes these badges and wants to earn them. In order to earn the Life 2010 badge, he has to be Star 6 months. Well if he doesn't make STAR by June 15, the likelihood of him getting a LIFE Board of Review between December 15 & New Years is remote. Our troop generally takes off for Christmas.

 

The Scout in question has made absolutely no demands on anyone. He has simply requested a Board of Review as he is supposed to do. To assume he is being unreasonable or not Star material is ignorant of the facts. Adults on an internet forum really should't make assumptions about Scouts they've never met.

[acco40 95]

Scouts should initiate a BOR and the Board should comply in a timely fashion. That is the program.

 

A committee that has 'standing' BOR dates - quarterly, monthly, weekly or daily, is not the program. It is for the convenience of the adults.

 

The advancement program is run by the Scoutmaster. The Advancement Chair, who should be appointed by the Committee Chair, should ensure that BORs are held and help in arranging them. It is customary, but not mandatory, that the Advancement Chair or their designate "chairs" the BORs. The Advancement Chair is also responsible for the advancement records working with troop scribe - a youth, and the troop secretary - an adult.

 

For emphasis - Again, a BOR should be held when a Scout requests one. I don't care if all, one or no requirements for rank have been met. Passing the BOR is another matter. Now, BORs may be held for things other than rank advancement but those are usually not initiated by the Scout.(This message has been edited by acco40)