Merit Badge Requirments/when completed?

[mbrownkc7]

We had a discussion recently at a troop meeting regarding incomplete merit badges. Example, we had a few boys not complete thier climbing merit badge at camp. Before we went to camp we did a climbing overnight and the boys completed some requirements at the overnight. BUT, they didn't request to take the merit badge until we went to camp months later. It was after camp and review of the imcomplete requirements that it was brought to our attention the the imcompletes were done on the previous overnight.

 

Some believe that you can't count a requirement as completed unless you are taking the merit badge. Others beleive that it can be a case by case basis and if it makes sense you could sign off on it.

 

Anyone here have an official answer we can review and print out for the parties involved.

 

 

Thanks

[evmori]

I don't know if you will find an official answer. I have always felt it is up to the MB counselor.

[dg98adams]

Unless the "camp MB counselor" went with you on your "climbing over night" I would be very surprised he would accept any climbing requirements done months prior, especially with out a Blue Card.

 

In our council, the climbing MB counselor wants to see Blue Cards for any Scout who wants to work on the climbing MB.

 

No Blue Cards mean you bring him a SM-signed Blue Card and start from the beginning.

 

I know we had a few Scouts who wanted to "finish" the existing cards (we climb every winter indoors) but had to wait at the indoor climbing wall to be "belay certified" at 14, because the camp climbing guy was an "all done here" or "nothing".

[John-in-KC]

Any MB Counselor worth his/her salt is going to ask a Scout for his MB app at the first meeting. He/she should want to see that the Scoutmaster has signed off, authorized Billy to begin the MB.

 

As others said, no card, no SM signature ... you've got a clean slate with me. With card and signature, I'm going to spot check ... especially skills which are safety related.

 

Once I'm through with the catch-up, then I'll give the Scout expectations for getting the rest of his badge done.

 

It's my signature on the card. It's my integrity at stake. While I'll neither add to nor take from, the content will be done RIGHT.

[emb021]

"Some believe that you can't count a requirement as completed unless you are taking the merit badge."

 

I'll give you an example where that's nonsense: Camping Merit Badge. You have to complete a certain number of days/nights camping (don't ask me, I don't recall). In my day, most scouts didn't sign up for this merit badge at camp until they had the required days/nights already completed. I did.

 

Most merit badge college events give a list of prerequisites that the scouts need to complete before they come and work on the badges. Without the pre-work done, there is no change of them completing the merit badge. (Please don't start another thread about the 'evils' of MBCs).

 

[CalicoPenn]

Actually, there is an official answer - and its a very simple answer at that.

 

Merit Badge requirements are completed when the Merit Badge Counselor signs off on the requirement. Unless and until the Merit Badge Counselor signs off on the requirement, it isn't done. The Merit Badge Counselor has discretion as to whether to accept previous work or not. Technically, even with the Camping Merit Badge, the Merit Badge Counselor can say the time clock starts when the Scout meets with the Merit Badge Counseler to start the work (though in practice, especially with such badges as Camping, the MBC is more likely than not to accept campouts done before the badge was started - if they didn't, the market will decide never to use that person again).

 

The other piece to this is that once a Merit Badge Counselor has signed off on a requirement, it is completed - even if the Scout moves on to another MBC. While the new MBC may review the work, making the Scout do the work over is not in keeping with the way the Merit Badge program works, and the MBC should be taken aside for a friendly (or not so friendly) cup of coffee to discuss. If a climbing merit bacge counselor at camp receives blue cards with partials signed off by a properly registered Merit Badge Counselor for that badge, and refuses to accept the partial, I would be having a very pointed talk with the Camp Director and the Council Advancement Chair with an expectation that the policy would change - immediately.

[Beavah]

While the new MBC may review the work, making the Scout do the work over is not in keeping with the way the Merit Badge program works, and the MBC should be taken aside for a friendly (or not so friendly) cup of coffee to discuss.

 

An interestin' opinion, but lacking in a citation .

 

There's no such thing in da BSA literature or program as a "partial" merit badge, and while blue cards are offered as a record-keeping option for units they are not required, nor is a counselor obligated to sign off requirement by requirement on a blue, green, or purple card or computer program.

 

Record-keeping aids should not drive the program, and they certainly don't define how the Merit Badge program "works."

 

The MBC alone decides when a boy has met all the requirements and completed a merit badge. He or she is free to accept prior work, or not. He or she is free to accept da word of the SM, or the boy, or another MBC with respect to an individual requirement, or not. But as KC suggests, a MBC's approval of a badge is a personal statement that the boy has fulfilled all the requirements for the badge, so da matter is one of his personal honor.

 

And personal common sense. Sometimes yeh accept prior work, and sometimes yeh don't. Almond Joy's got nuts, Mounds don't.

 

Yeh can have as many cups of coffee and conversations with chairs (or sofas!) as yeh like, and the answer should still be the same. The Merit Badge Counselor decides. For the original poster, one reference document is Advancement Committee Policies & Procedures (page # depends on the printing), but it's the same in all the literature.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Eamonn]

I'm starting to worry!

This is the second time in two days that I'm in agreement with Beavah.

Eamonn.

[nolesrule]

"There's no such thing in da BSA literature or program as a "partial" merit badge, and while blue cards are offered as a record-keeping option for units they are not required, nor is a counselor obligated to sign off requirement by requirement on a blue, green, or purple card or computer program."

 

I did find one mention of partials, but it is in conjunction with advancement at summer camp. In fact, it's the very last sentence of the section entitled "Advancement at Summer Camp" in the ACP&P (p. 34).

 

"Partial completion of merit badges should be credited to a Scout on the Application for Merit Badge and given to the Scoutmaster at the end of the week."

 

But there's no directive on how to subsequently proceed.

[John-in-KC]

Again, common sense applies. If I'm a Counselor taking a Scout who has a partial from camp, I'm going to spot check the requirements completed. I know what I think now about Tent Schools.

 

Then, we'll figure out the road to completion together.

[Vicki]

If a scout shows up for an initial meeting without a SM-signed MB card, I'll start him out. But I tell him that normally I expect to see a SM-signed MB card at the first meeting. That's how it's done in our council and how the card is set up - the SM is supposed to approve the scout as being ready for the MB in question. Camp-based MBs don't follow that rule, but once you're away from camp, if you didn't complete the badge, the rule applies. So, from a paperwork POV, I would have wanted to see a SM-signed MB card plus whatever camp paperwork the scout had.

 

On a practical level, if you have a climbing MBC in your troop, that person would know who was on that outing and may be willing to sign off on those requirements, take the camp MBC's word for the rest, and you're done. But he or she doesn't have to do it that way.

 

That said, it is up to the MB counselor to accept the previously done work, or not. For me, it's a case-by-case basis and, as John and others noted, it's my signature on that line. If a scout comes to me and wants me to sign off on requirements for Personal Management, well, we're going to sit down and talk about the requirements - all of them. If he "remembers" enough from his prior experience, then I'll sign off. If he doesn't, I won't. If it was a written requirement, and he doesn't have the paperwork, I'll quiz him pretty closely as to how he prepared it and what he did. I'm much less likely to sign off on written requirements unless he has something in hand. After all, if you weren't done with the badge, why didn't you hold onto your documents?

 

emb, I've known of troops that issued Camping MB cards when a scout crossed over, just to avoid any problems down the road.

 

But, as Dennis Miller says, that's just me. YMMV.

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[evmori]

If a Scout shows up without a blue card, I do the same as Vicki. I expect to see a signed blue card from the Scout's Scoutmaster then next time we meet. And I never keep the Scout's blue card. That is their responsibility.

[Crossramwedge]

Answer me this. Our troop attended summer camp. We pre-registered and sent in the list Of Merit Badges the boys would like to achieve. Well when we got there they had no record of the Merit Badges and proceeded to put the boys in different classes because most of requested classes where full. Some of the badges of course required that you where supposed to meet some of the requirements before you came. In this case the boy's would have to complete them after they left. In that situation who then signs off on the requirements that could not be completed at camp. What if you do not have A MB counselor locally that could sign off the remaining requirements? The standard operating procedure around here is to allow the SM sign to off on it. Of course he would have studied the requirement and made sure that it was completed to what he felt was adequate to satisfy that requirement.

[Twocubdad]

In that case, the Scout would go to any regularly registered counselor for the badge to finish up.

 

I tell you the thing that bugs me at our camp is the policy (habit?) of the camp counselors to have the Scout ask me to verify things I have know knowledge of. Example: one of my Scouts taking Sports MB came to me at camp this year and asked me to write a note to his counselor verifying that he had played on two different sports leagues. Turns out one of the football teams the boy wanted to count was several years earlier and prior to the boy becoming a Scout. I wrote a note saying just that. To my chagrin, the counselor accepted the requirement as complete.

 

I don't mind sign sending notes for stuff I know about (like nights camping) but this bothers me. I think in the future we're going to let the Scout know that things like this must be approved prior to camp where we have the opportunity to think it through a little better.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[evmori]

What if you do not have A MB counselor locally that could sign off the remaining requirements? The standard operating procedure around here is to allow the SM sign to off on it.

 

Unless the SM is a counselor for the MB, he can't sign off as a MB counselor on a MB. If you don't have a local counselor, the Scout will have to wait until he goes back to summer camp to complete the partial.(This message has been edited by evmori)