10 animals & 10 Plants - In a Museum?

[kenk]

Regarding the 2nd Class requirement to show evidence of 10 kinds of animials, and the 1st Class requirement to show evidence of 10 kinds of plants ...

 

... Is it acceptable for a Scout to complete these requirements in a museum or similar setting?

[perdidochas]

While a museum would be a good first start in learning the signs, I think this needs to be done in the wild. I live in suburbs, and I think I could do this one in a day if required.

 

Here are what I would consider evidence of animals:

1) Foot/paw/claw prints

2) evidence of nests (squirrel or bird)

3) Actual animals (should be able to spot at least 3 or 4 different birds easily)

4) Dung

 

Plants should be very easy. Just get a fieldguide and get to work.

[Bob White]

Once again it is important to read the Boy Scout Handbook beyond the few pages that list the reank requirements. Please read pages 89 through 97 regarding 2nd Class Rank requirement #5.

 

 

[Lisabob]

Weak. I can't think of any reason that the boy couldn't do this for real, outside, no matter what sort of environment he lives in. The section of the handbook Bob references is all about doing this outdoors as well.

 

In light of that, ask the boy whether this is really his best effort, on his honor. I think he'd be unlikely to say it was.

[evmori]

The 2nd Class Requirement reads

 

5. Identify or show evidence of at least 10 kinds of wild animals (birds, mammals, reptiles, fish, mollusks) found in your community.

 

The 1st Class Requirement reads

 

6. Identify or show evidence of at least 10 kinds of native plants found in your community.

 

In both they read found in your community and I don't think they meant found in a museum in your community. The intent, in my opinion, is to have the Scouts become familiar with the wildlife & foliage in their community.

 

Ed Mori

A blessed Christmas to all.

[kenk]

I wholehearedly agree.

 

The reason I'd asked is that my son's SM is setting up a day trip to a local museum to help Scouts who joined last spring, but haven't bothered to collect the signs to date. I (adv coordinator) told him that "signs" found in a museum are not in the spirit of the program and should not be acceptable.

 

I sense that the SM is too focused on the rank advancement. He's a new SM (his son is one of the newbies) and may still be in Cub Scout mode.(This message has been edited by kenk)

[Lisabob]

Sounds like it is time for that friendly cup of coffee. Going to the museum might be a good start but not an end to the process. Anyway though, winter can be a really good time to find animal tracks, etc., so maybe he wants to encourage the scouts in question to spend some time outdoors looking for signs in the snow? If he insists on setting it up for the boys, at least steer him toward a state park or nature center where the rangers will be happy to show the boys the real deal, outdoors. Then they can do a hike or something if they want to practice and collect signs while they're there.

[NeilLup]

Totally concur with Lisabob. Perhaps they could do the museum in the morning, then go out to a local park and find some wildlife "on the hoof." And I don't mean the zoo.

 

The most wildlife we ever had was when we lived in downtown Boston. In our 30' x 30' yard, we had or saw:

 

Skunks (twice)

Raccoons

Opossums

Some kind of water rat

rat

mouse

Hawk

Many other birds

Squirrel

[gcnphkr]

I will need to go back and reread the pages that BW noted in the handbook, but bear with me as I am just basing this on the requirements as written.

 

First, they state, "Identify or show evidence of". Not name, collect, observe in the wild or be shown. It does not specify how or where they are to be identified--hands on, observation in the wild or naming from pictures. If they can correctly put a name to the plant or animal then they have succeeded.

 

Second, the identification or evidence is of "ten kinds". I've no idea what "kind" means as it has no scientific meaningful definition. It could be species, order or family. I can only assume that it does not include class as that is the level listed for most of the groups in the Second Class requirement. Is skunk good enough? Or does he have to be able to tell the difference between a striped skunk, a hooded skunk or a western spotted skunk? The requirement doesn't say.

 

Finally, they need to be either wild animals or native plants. Not domesticated or imported. This can cause issues. Salt Cedar grows wild all over the West, but it is not native. Can that be used? What about apple trees? I'm not sure many scouters could tell you which are native and which are not. What about feral animals?

 

Needless to say I'm not happy with the wording of the requirements. In practice this is how I handle it: If there are found in the wild in the area then they can be used. Without help, they need to be able to tell me what the plant or animal is. Family or order is fine if that is enough to identify it locally. So "whitetail deer" is OK in Arizona, "deer" is not (there are three species if you include elk) and "_Odocoileus virginianus_" is overkill. So, while taking them to a museum would be a good thing to do, that a lone would not fulfill these requirements. But giving them a test latter where they need to identify ten pictures could.

[NeilLup]

"So, while taking them to a museum would be a good thing to do, that a lone would not fulfill these requirements. But giving them a test latter where they need to identify ten pictures could. "

 

Jet, with respect, I disagree with you on this last point. This is supposed to be a jolly kid's game getting youth in touch with the out of doors. I beliee that we are supposed to be getting kids outdoors, doing things in the out of doors, etc. To me the ten pictures doesn't hack it. I want the Scout to identify in the field the real thing.

 

Having said that, when I got my Nature merit badge (which was required for Eagle at the time), I presented to my counselor a notebook with the leaves of the 30 plants which were required collected by me in the field. He accepted it.

[gcnphkr]

While I agree in principle, it practice I do not see that happening. Plants are easy to do, you can sneak up on a plant. But that is not always the case with animals. For starters most animals are adverse to noisy 11 year olds and the more backwoods you go the more adverse they are. If the scout is good with birds then this would not be too difficult. But apart from a few common birds, most would not be able to get closer than "finch", "owl" or "humming bird". While a naturalist could go out and identify ten animals in a couple of hours and the average woodsman could do it in a couple of days, few scouters, much less scouts, would get past, "cardinal", "robin" and "elk". They may have a whole lot of tracks, scat and sightings with someone in the party saying, "I think that's a red-tail hawk, but it might be a Harris hawk". Whereupon the scouts whip out their handbooks and proudly write down "hawk" or "bird" and the scouter congratulates them on how wonderful they are.

 

So if they can IDENTIFY them in the wild, then great. But I'd like them to know them well enough to be able to do this when they are in the wild rather than just be shown some elk droppings.

[Bob White]

What I don't understand is why they just don't go out on a winter hike or a field observation and complete the requirement correctly. Heck I could sit in my dining room and look out the window and see 10 wild animals in the course of an afternoon in the middle of a residentila neighborhood.

 

And even in the winter its possible to do tree identification.

 

The scoutmaster needs some assistamce either throgh training or to better understand the training he has recieved.

 

And he needs to understand that the list doesn't have to be filled the same day.

 

If the Scout sees a Red Squirrel one day and a Canada Goose two days later they both go on the list.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Hal_Crawford]

Museum? No, I think that runs against the intent of the requirement.

 

I generally accept a broad range of answers. If a scout sees a deer I don't expect him to know what kind but I would expect him to say Robin or Cardinal rather than just bird. I do not expect scouts to know if a plant is native or invasive but it should be somewhat in the wild not a potted poesy. I don't know whether some trees are native or were transplanted. Same with animals, no domesticated animals.

 

In our community it would not be difficult to see a:

Squirrel

Chipmunk

Robin

Cardinal

Rabbit

Fox (once saw a fox carrying a rabbit down the street in front of my house).

Bat

Deer

Mouse

Rat

Black Snake

Copperhead

 

Our community is considered 100% urban. We are fifteen minutes away from the National Zoo but why would anyone need to go that far to fulfill the requirement and I don't think reading signs on cages is what anyone had in mind. We do extend the definition of "community" to include anyplace that we are camping which expands the range of possibilities for both plants and animals. Spotting a bear track is a memorable experience for a young scout... especially if it is near his tent.

 

Is an insect an animal? Is a mosquito bite a sign of an animal found in your community?

 

I agree with the poster who said the requirements are poorly worded.

 

Hal

 

 

[allangr1024]

Being a scoutmaster for a year now, my heart does go out to this guy. They bearly teach you how to run a troop in SM training, and that is through videos from the BSA that more or less show you what one may look like. I have not seen anything about nature requirements, and have seen no SM training course covering this. I struggled with this stuff when I was a scout, and I am not much better now.

 

I agree that the museum idea is a weak one. These requirements scream "Get the scouts into the woods." For me, if a scout comes back with anything from an animal (sighting, tracks, droppings, food) I will gladly accept that.

 

The plants are harder. I have had the boys bring back samples of leaves and grass, and had them look them up in local plant and shrubbs books. Im no expert, and not that many scouters I meet are either.

 

It is a game with a purpose, after all.

[Bob White]

allangr1024

 

Did no one tell you about Introduction to Outdoor Skills Training that is part of the Basic Training sequence for Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters?

 

That is truly unfortunate if your local district or council did not explain even the basic training courses to you. At that course they teach you all the outdoor skills and requirements for Tenderfoot through First Class.

 

"I agree with the poster who said the requirements are poorly worded."

 

They would not be confusing if people read the Handbook.

 

The Handbook gives reference pages that teach the skill and explain the requirement. It is confounding the number of people who only read the few pages that list the requirements and completely ingnore the huindreds of pages that teach the skills.(This message has been edited by Bob White)