Am I over-reacting? follow-up

[gcook1 10]

Well, thanks everyone for your input. It's been interesting! After getting very little sleep last night, I thought I'd put an update in for anyone interested.

 

First of all, the Scout's dad is our troop treasurer. I "thought" I knew him fairly well. I wouldn't call us close friends, but more than passing aquantances. My son and his son go to the same high school. So I called him last night. I asked him if he had read his son's draft. He had. I asked how closely he read it. He said "This is about that sentence, isn't it?" Yes, it is.

 

He proceeded to absolutely BLOW UP! Totally lost it. Screaming at me, how could I possibly think that was serious? It was a JOKE! He read it. He thought it was funny. How could I possibly think it was for real? I tried to explain I knew it was a joke. A rough draft of an Eagle project isn't the place for his son to practice his comedy routine. He totally does not get it. He couldn't stop yelling long enough to hear a single word I said.

 

This is the fun part of Scoutmaster, isn't it???? Anyway...I don't know where to go from here. Dad doesn't understand what's appropriate and what's not. Now I see where the son gets it.

 

(This message has been edited by gcook1)

[Eagledad 2780]

>>I don't know where to go from here. Dad doesn't understand what's appropriate and what's not. Now I see where the son gets it.

[BulldogBlitz 10]

ask him (the dad) if he would be willing to put that line on his resume or on a non-ringling brothers application.

[John-in-KC 311]

I endorse what Barry said!!!

[Lisabob 13]

"I learned in these kinds of situations with parents that you need to be as specific as possible, say a few words as possible and let them speak their piece. But dont let them lower your standard. "

 

Great advice. Hopefully dad in this scenario will come to his senses but in the meantime, from all that has been written I would say you did the right thing. Stick to your guns on this, all the while being the "reasonable party," and it will most likely work itself out Who knows, even if you lose this young man from your troop, your response may be enough to make him think twice before doing something similar in more serious contexts in the future.

 

 

 

[scoutldr 732]

I hate to say I told you so. Parents are not usually rational when confronted with evidence that their sons made a written death threat. The fact that the Father knew about it and let it go, should tell you a lot. You are in over your head here and it will just get worse. Now that you have the Dad's "non-support" what do you expect to accomplish with a SM Conference? The kid doesn't have to listen to you, Dad said so in not so many words.

 

When I gave the advice to turn it over to law enforcement, I knew full well that the kid would not get life in prison over this. Being a juvenile (presumably with no priors), the most he will get is a stern talking to by the judge, a psych eval, and maybe probation until he's 18 at which time the record is expunged. Hopefully that would have sent a wake-up call to both the kid AND dad that such behavior is NOT tolerated in today's society, much less a Scout troop.

 

This is a lose-lose situation...the more you stay involved, the worse it will be for you. And no way in heck would I be signing off on the kid's Eagle app.

 

That's my final advice. Do with it what you will...

[croushorn 10]

Eagledad gives you fantastic advice and direction. I completely concur.

 

If you give him the opportunity to re- resubmit a proposal under whatever reasonable conditions you define, I cant believe there would be any reason for Dad to drag out this example of extremely poor judgment. And thats exactly how I would put it, provided with examples of what you could have done suggested by some folks right here on this forum. Ask him what does he think would happen if he sent that to one of his teachers? Make sure you keep your CC and maybe your UC in the loop on this. Require him to witness the SM conference when you counsel the Scout on this.

 

Personal note I wouldnt deal any further with this family on a one-on-one basis. Obviously you all have different perspectives on what is acceptable and what isnt; dont build Dad's case for a complaint to your committee or council. Add this to the list of reasons Scouts and adults should not communicate directly through email. Also, I dont tolerate screaming: from my boys, from my adults, from myself. If an adult starts that crap I will walk away or hang up the phone. And if they stop to breathe, I will simply say that I will be glad to talk further on the topic when they have regained their composure.

 

With my experiences, some folks will thank you for holding the standard high, others will curse you for being unfair. Its not easy being the one that has to make that call, but it is what we signed on for. Ive turned some boys around, but Ive also lost some. The ones that turn around make it all worthwhile. The ones that dont, certainly hurt, but as long as you did everything you can then the regret shouldnt be yours. None of us are perfect, all we can do is look in the mirror and try to do better each time. I can appreciate your dilemma, good luck with the rest of the story.

 

[Gunny2862 11]

While I think ursus snorous roarus and Eagledad are right on, there is no way that I would go alone to their home in this situation. This is one of those meetings that needs to occur with the Committee in the next room at the normal meeting place or in a public place.

 

The fact that the dad knew about it and didn't have him remove it tells me all I really need to know about being in a room alone with him and his family. Especially considering his reaction when you called to inquire about the situation.

[evmori 11]

Ditto to what Barry posted! And I'd bet if you asked him if he would put that on his resume you'd be shocked at the Answer.

[Gold Winger 9]

I'd still call Homeland Security, especially after his c0-conspirator tried to convince you it was a joke. Black helicopters over his house will make for a fun evening.

[Apache Bob 10]

I have not read what your advancement person thinks about the email he received. His reaction is what?

If this was a joke, who is laughing at it?

I think this one should be passed on to Council and law enforcement. The Troop Committee should know what is going on and then stay clear. When some time has passed and things calmed down then you as SM (along with some other ASMs and Committee members) should sit down with the youth and his Dad and determine whether the boy will be allowed to remain in the Troop.

You have the other boys in the Troop to consider. If a boy is making threats to an adult are your Scouts safe?

[Twocubdad 665]

Find help.

[nldscout 18]

I wasn't on when this started, but let me express my view of this from a courts perspective.

 

In NY, this communication would be a criminal act, and would get you arrested in a NY minute if the individual filed a police report. Since Dad saw this and did nothing, he possibly could be arrested too.

 

Things like this if not properly nipped in the bud escalate and spin out of hand and then the next thing you know, there Juniour is standing in front of me, in handcuffs, on his way to Jail, while Dad says, and I have heard it many times " I don't understand where we went wrong"

 

Somehow, someone needs to communicate to this young man and his Dad the seriousness of this situation, before this gets out of hand. Maybe its the Police, maybe its the Courts, maybe its a school councilor. But find someone to help you. One thing you might say to them, if he had sent this to a teacher, he would already be racked and stacked.

 

No matter how hard you try this has the potential for harm to both parties.

 

I think one of my blackest days as a judge was the day they brought 2 young men infront of me in the middle of the night, both were 20, both were Eagle Scouts I knew from our town. Talk about disappointment at 230 in the morning.

 

Paul

The Judge

[Docrwm 10]

Perhaps I'm off base here and please forgive me but why would anyone think that a young man who wrote something like that, in this day and age after Columbine and VaTech, is READY for his Eagle?

 

Don't care if it was a "joke". Don't care if Dad thought it was a "joke". Don't care if others here think its just a boy being a boy. Is a boy who put that in writing to his advancement person, had it reviewed by his parent, and kept it in after having time to think about it (didn't write it in a fit of anger or on the spur of the moment) showing the judgment that an Eagle should possess?

 

Just my thoughts.

[FScouter 24]

What is "ready for Eagle"? A boy is not "ready" for Eagle until he has successfully completed all of the requirements for Eagle. The boy in this case is making a proposal for a project, one of several requirements to earn the Eagle rank. Is the project proposal acceptable or is it not? So the kid made a stupid, maybe terrorist threat, that has nothing to do with the quality of his project proposal. If the board of review later wants to turn him down for the Eagle rank, more power to them. But it should be done at the board of review, not three steps before!