How much should we record?

[SWScouter]

In another thread, Gwd_scouter wrote,

Our troop was in a terrible habit of entering things in TroopMaster without having it signed off in the book first. So, a boy could be ready for a SM conference for Tenderfoot and not have a thing signed in his book. Very sad scenario and one which we have since corrected. All of our boys know very clearly now that nothing gets recorded in TroopMaster until it is signed in their handbook. This has resulted in the boys at least remembering to bring their books on campouts so they can get signed off when they cook, build fires, etc.

 

Now I've never seen Troopmaster. I hear it does a lot, but why on earth does a troop need to record whether a scout has finished, e.g., requirement 2 for 1st class? Isn't signing off the requirement in the book enough? Why should the troop micromanage all these little beans for all the scouts? I can understand keeping track of when a scout earns rank, but all the in between? I can certainly see that this would be a major pain for the advancement chair (or whomever is in charge of this nightmare). So, what's the benefit?

 

SWScouter

[GernBlansten]

We started using Troopmaster last year. But we don't enter anything in it until the book is signed off. The book previals in any requirement dispute. After the scout passes his SM conference and BOR, he gives the book to the advancement coordinator for entry into TM.

 

one benefit of having everything entered in TM is when a scout misplaces his book. We had a second year scout working on his 1st class. He attended our Klondoree and agreed to have the patrol use it on the sled as part of the required equipment list. At the end of the derby, it was gone. Probably left at a station or under 3 feet of snow. He was pretty distraught and didn't want to have to repeat Tenderfoot and 2nd class. After an appropriate amount of time to stew in his own juices, we told him to buy another book, and we could regenerate the tenderfoot and 2nd class signoffs from TM. Of course his 1st class stuff wasn't recorded and he needed to get them re-signed by the ASMs who did it.

[Oak Tree]

The big benefit to having things recorded in Troopmaster is to allow us to see what advancement opportunities we want to offer. Do a bunch of boys still need a flag-raising demonstration? An orienteering course? A five-mile hike? That sort of thing.

 

Oak Tree

[Gonzo1]

I think sometimes we have too much technology. Why not use the Advacement Chart that you can tape to the wall. Get fancy and put it in a frame. It's easy to use, cheap (thrifty) and can be used by everyone.

 

 

[evmori]

When I was the Advancement Chair, on a monthly basis, I would print out all the advancement records for each Scout. I would compare these to their books & make the necessary changes/entries as needed. This was also a great way to review each Scout's progress.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Lisabob]

I'm told by our current adv. chair and membership chair that using troopmaster makes it a lot easier to do online rechartering and online advancement reports. If that's true then there's a big benefit, because our council and others around here are slowly moving toward requiring online submissions. And for us, since our council office is over an hour away, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

 

[SWScouter]

Oak Tree,

 

If the adult leadership does what you say using reports from Troopmaster, aren't we taking away responsibility from the scouts? My understanding is one of the PL's responsibilities is to know where his patrol members are concerning advancement and report on that to the PLC. Thus the PLC should then be able to plan activities accordingly.

 

Lisa Bob,

 

Online advancement only records rank, merit badges, and awards for each scout. There is no recording of individual rank requirements. That's my main question, what is the purpose of recording when every single requirement is passed off? It seems that only the actual rank needs to be recorded along with the earned merit badges.

 

I'm sort of taking the devil's advocate stance here. I think we can take technology too far and just create busy work with little advantage. As far as I can tell, recording when each scout passes each requirement in Troopmaster is one example of this busy work. What is the benefit? Is being able to give advancement reports to the PLC for scheduling activities an advantage or are we just taking away learning opportunities and responsibilities from the scouts?

 

I think Gonzo1 points out a great tool. The advancement charts are visual. Each scout can see where he is and he can also update the chart when he completes a requirement. Of course, his book needs to be signed off first.

 

SWScouter

[Oak Tree]

Lisabob, it's definitely true that Troopmaster eases advancement reports and rechartering. To do either of those, though, you don't need to record any intermediate accomplishments.

 

I think the big poster can be a great motivator. In our case, we don't really have a good way to display it. The other problem with the poster is that it can get real messy over the years as boys drop out. There are other benefits to doing it in Troopmaster, too - for example, it's easy to get a report by patrol, whereas the poster can't be regrouped so easily. There are lots of other ways to look at the data, too. I've got a ton of computer professionals in my troop, so the idea of using such a convenient, easy aid just seems natural.

 

As for leaving it all up to the boys, I guess that's just a balancing act. Sometimes we do give the reports to the patrol leaders or to PLC as they plan. Sometimes the PLC plans "advancement time", and one of the ASMs will provide a few opportunities in addition to whatever else the boys want to do. As adults, we just have to use our judgement on how much nudging, planning, disorganization, or whatever else is appropriate. Some troops are boy-led to the point of total chaos, and some are adult-led to the point of replicating school classrooms. Each troop will just have to find the point along that continuum that works for them. Ours seems to be working well for us.

 

Oak Tree

[oldsm]

IMO, Troopmaster is a godsend. It makes my life SO much easier. We follow the rule that the book gets signed first. Then the info gets passed along for entry into TM. The wall chart might get updated, but it's difficult in our situation to display it permanently. And as someone mentioned earlier, they do get very messy over time.

 

Another thing TM does very well is let you record activities. Like meeting attendance, service project attendance, and camping trips (even distinguishing between cabin and tent camping) and determine how many nights camping or miles hiked apply. Then you can get summary reports by boy/patrol/event. Comes in real handy when looking for OA eligibility, Camping MB, hiking MB, etc. There's no other good easy place to record that stuff. Our scouts are supposed to record this in their handbooks, but it's too easily forgotten. Having it all in TM is much easier than looking back through records of who attended which event. It also allows for extensive recording of personal information (like parents/guardians even with different addresses, doctors, religious preferences, and lots more. It tracks boys advancement, leadership, training, and OA achievements -- similarly for adults (including committee, program leaders, MBCs, and "other" people you want to keep track of.

 

Perhaps instead of just idly wondering about whether or not TM is "too much" technology, people should download the lastest version from www.troopmaster.com. You can get the entire program FREE and test-drive it. Once you start putting the information in and see how powerful it is, you'll probably want to find a way to pay the nominal cost to keep using it.

[John-in-KC]

I've been there, and done this.

 

First, I agree with Gonzo to a certain extent. Help the Troop Scribe have duties to go with his POR; use the advancement wall chart. Keeps the unit advancement committeeman/woman from having to confiscate books on a monthly/quarterly basis.

 

Second, I also agree with Lisa and Ed. Troopmaster has a broad array of data collection functions. Particularly useful is the driver info data which my council requires when we submit a tour permit app. Pick the drivers going, BAM! I have a printout which my council accepts!

 

Troopmaster is a GODSEND after LT camps and hikes. Tell it there is a COH coming up, and it dumps every badge the Scouts have earned... and a few more. How many of us actually track the World Conservation Award? Troopmaster feeds it into the equation the instant the Scout picks up the badge.

 

Finally, I don't know about the data entry clerks in YOUR council... but in my council, accuracy sometimes leaves something to be desired. On at least two Eagle apps, I've had to resubmit every bloody advancement and MB the Scout earned... because the ScoutNet record was AFU (and that is the most civil way to describe it!)!

 

(For the acromynically impaired, AFU means All Fouled Up, I am sure, OldGreyEagle) (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[acco40]

Luddites?

 

Troopmaster is a database that holds not only advancement records but tarining, patrol affiliations, birthdates, leadership positions, activities/attendance, OA status, etc.

 

Let's say a Scout has attended five separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), two of which included camping overnight based on the attendance records of troopmaster. However, this requirement (2nd Class 2a) has not been signed off in his Boy Scout Handbook? Has this requirement been met? In our troop, yes! What if requirement 2a has been signed off but not recorded in troopmaster? Well, he may have met the requirement but if the troop advancement chair doesn't realize that he has met that requirement, he won't advance!

 

I think troopmaster is a godsend. It does lag the book signings sometimes. The Scouts know that they may have to relinquish their BS Handbook on occasion so that the records in the two "systems" are in sync.

 

With on-line advancement, rechartering, etc. join the 21st century! (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[SueM]

We had been using TroopMaster way before I took over as SM when I was the troop secretary..as a matter of fact, the CC and I sat down and went over all the troop pink advancement forms and entered everthing into it so we'd have the correct start of info there. When boys would come back from Summer Camp with their partial MB blue cards..we'd enter that info into it too. As someone else mentioned then we also kept track of when adults did their YPT and other training courses too. Now, as SM, I continue to keep the master copy..we've tried letting someone else handle doing the work, but it always ends up getting messed up. When a boy comes to me for a SM's conference with his book, I'll put all the info into TM at that time (I always take my laptop to meetings with me as I have a lot of scouting info on it!). I can also verify service hours or activity attendance at that time. I also find it is very useful for me then when I have time at home, that I can go over each boys' records to see where we are as a troop. Or if a parent calls me at home, I have access to everything that I need. When I send out my quarterly newsletter prior to the COH, I will also print out each boys progress report and MB's earned sheet to send home so that we can all verify that we have things right! And also as someone else said..if someone loses their book, we still have records of what requirements they have done.

 

sue m