Another Eagle Scout Project funds question

[EagleInKY 14]

I've got a Life Scout working on his Eagle Project. It's a very agressive project for a local school. The cost in materials is going to be approximately $1000. The school is not providing any funds. They sent a letter home with all students, but yielded very little. He's also asked troop members to donate funds, but still has very little to show.

 

As a side note, this is a scout in a family that has caused lots of problems for our troop. The boy himself is okay, but his dad has pretty much isolated themselves from everyone else. He did everything he could to try and break up the troop (unsuccessfully), so now he's taken his son who just crossed over to another troop down the road. I suspect this boy will leave the moment he earns his Eagle.

 

So, now the troop committee chairman asks in a committee meeting last week for approval for the committee to give money to this boy for his project. His mom was there, so no one felt comfortable expressing their opinion. He put me on the spot to give an opinion. The best I could come up with on the spot was to offer "matching funds" from other donations in the troop. And, I recommended they cap it, as to not overcommit themselves. They decided to cap it at $200.

 

Question, has any of your troops ever offered money toward anyone's Eagle Project? Is it within the rules?

[OldGreyEagle 5]

First, its not against the "rules" as there is not any prohibition that I know of in the "rules" that says a Troop can't fund or help fund an Eagle Project, but I do think that its against the rules of Good Sense and Judgement. Will this start funding of future projects? What if an Eagle of the past shows up with receipts of $714.19 fropm his project, are you going to pay him? How and where is the line drawn? The completion of the Eagle Leadership Project is up to the scout and the organization for whom the project benefits, why inject the Troop in where it doenst belong?

[scoutldr 732]

Part of "providing leadership" to the project is planning how to raise the funds. I don't believe that the troop donating funds is appropriate...that's not the purpose for which those funds were raised. I agree with OGE...it's going to set a precedent that will be hard to maintain. Usually, the Eagle candidate is expected to visit local businesses to solicit "in kind" donations (such as lumber from the local hardware store", or to organize fundraisers (car washes, spaghetti dinners, etc) which are planned and led by the scout with the assistance of his troopmates, who can in turn earn service hours.

[AvidSM 11]

I am in agreement with the posts above. Troop funds should not be used to pay for all or part of an eagle project; that is not the intent of those funds. If it becomes the norm, you could potentially bankrupt the troop. It does not allow the boy to demonstrate leadership.

 

The scout should asking the other troop members for fundraising ideas, not money. He should be going to local businesses asking for donations or organizing fundraisers, such as car washes or pancake breakfastes. That would be demonstrating leadership!

[NeilLup 13]

There would seem to be two factors at play here:

 

1) The fact that the Scout needs $1000 or so for his project and is asking the Troop for it

2) The fact that your Troop seems to have problems with the Scout's family and they have problems with you

 

I might ask if the Scout and his family were the Troop's and the Troop leaders' strongest supporters, and were always there pitching in, would you even ask about the $1000 contribution?

 

Having said that, to me, one element of Eagle Scout project planning is being realistic about funds and about raising funds. If the Scout can't get the funds, then he should think about a different project. It may be appropriate for you to kick in funds if you have the money but if so, it should be the last $200, not the first $200.

 

Do you have enough money to pay this if every Eagle candidate asked for it (and they will now.) How do you feel about Tenderfoot Scouts raising money for the Troop and having it go for someone elses Eagle Scout project?

 

To me, this should have been asked in advance before the Eagle project started and the Committee should have considered things then. And the boy's mother should have been asked to leave or should have absented herself when the discussion was occurring.

[EagleInKY 14]

Good comments / questions.

 

Neilup - "I might ask if the Scout and his family were the Troop's and the Troop leaders' strongest supporters, and were always there pitching in, would you even ask about the $1000 contribution?"

 

I honestly believe that anyone else would have easily raised the $1000 long ago. These folks are so disliked, they're going to have a tough time getting anything. (It's not just in scouts they're disliked, it's the same way with the football league, soccer league, school PTA, church, etc.). To add to the problem, he (the scout) has always refused to participate in fund raising. So, now he's getting money from fund raising that he didn't help bring in. How hypocritical is that?

 

"one element of Eagle Scout project planning is being realistic about funds and about raising funds. If the Scout can't get the funds, then he should think about a different project."

 

I agree. I gave the scout advice that this project was probably more than he should try and pull off. The committee expressed the same concern. He didn't listen (he only listens to his dad).

 

His dad is who is really driving this. We can't prove it, but we all know it. We know that his dad wants him to be our "first Eagle" as something to brag about. He's made comments that give me reason to think his primary goal is to have his son "beat" my son to Eagle. The funny part is that my son is refusing to participate in the game. He's not going to start planning about his project until next year.

 

-----------------------------------

 

I called the CC last night to talk about this. I first asked him what initiated the conversation. He said that he had spoken to the boy on Saturday after our COH and he said that they were way behind on money and that the project had gotten more expensive. It seems he's decided to add more to it and the cost has doubled! (This is a classic example of his dad's work). The CC decided to pose the question and see what the committee's reaction was.

 

I expressed my concerns (which reflect the views of those here). My primary concern was that this wasn't initiated by the boy, so he's not demonstrated any leadership around it. I'm also concerned that he has not followed my advice regarding raising money and managing scope. And, I'm pretty sure he's not following my caution(warning) not to let his dad run the project.

 

I'm also concerned about the precedent set. If every scout comes for $200, it could get quite expensive. Now, we are a mostly middle-class/upper-middle class group, so I don't think we'll bankrupt ourselves, but it could get costly. The CC didn't think that would be an issue.

 

I told him that (1) he should have given me a heads up so I could get some thoughts together and (2) he should have asked the mom to leave the room so people would be comfortable discussing it on it's merit, not afraid to comment because of her being in the room.

 

He agreed to have some "offline" discussions with a few folks to see if my concerns are reflective of the group. While we will probably not take back the committment made this week, we should probably revisit it as a policy going forward.

[Eagle69 46]

There are some good comments in the other replies, especially raising the question that once you take a step down this road you have set a precedent.

 

My question is has this project been approved at the Troop and the District Level? As a Scoutmaster I would not approve a project that had a cost like this without it being stated who was going to pay for the materials. A line saying "I will solicit various sources for the money needed to carry out this project" wouldn't fly with me and I would not with a District reviewer either.

 

Good luck because it sounds like you are between a rock and a hard place.

[EagleInKY 14]

During the review of the proposal, I questioned him pretty hard on funding. The committee did the same. He was confident that it would come in. One thing he was hoping for was a grant for about 1/2 of the funds. That did not come about, so he's in a bit of a bind.

 

Yes, definitely between a rock and a hard place. If it were any other scout family, we wouldn't be where we are today. Actually, I should say that he wouldn't be where he is today. After all, this really boils down to it being his project.

 

Next week we've got scout camp. He'll be away from dad for the entire week. I'm going to have a conference with him and discuss his options. He's very close to having to delay, redesign or totally restart his project plan. He will not like to hear that and could end up causing him to leave the troop. I'll certainly provide an update after camp.

[firecrafter 10]

The troop funding an Eagle project is out of the question to me. This is a terrible precedent to set. There is the possibility that other scouts will see this and projects will get more ambitious. You can afford it now, but will you always be able to?

 

The parents of this scout should not be doing the asking. The scout himself should have addressed the committee. AND the mother should have the good sense/manners to excuse herself from the discussion.

 

This really gets my dander up. My own son planned a rather ambitious project at the cost of $1,600. The price of lumber nearly doubled during the time he was planning (total cost rising to almost $3000). It really threw him for a loop. He raised EVERY cent of this money himself, completed the project & made Eagle in six months,

WHILE travelling with his job! Yeah, not everyone is that ambitious. I know I'm not. But my gosh, this scout needs to do some of the work himself!

 

As a parent, I would be angry that this scout doesn't participate in fundraising but is asking for troop funds. What about the scouts who DO participate? When it is their turn to work on an Eagle project, will you contribute? If you do it for one but not for all you are asking for trouble.

 

I disagree with you...I'd insist that the committee revisit this issue at the next meeting/heck, call a meeting -without MOM present. The CC didn't handle things in the best way (although I certainly understand why). This needs to be

addressed and even possibly rescinded.

firecrafter

[OldGreyEagle 5]

whats the school's role in this? The project is to help a school, what are they doing to fund the project or is this a "fine we will take the results if we dont have to pay anything for it?" project?

 

I cant see giving troop funds to assist a scout in an Eagle project, it just feels wrong ( to me that is)

[FScouter 24]

Several comments have been made about setting a precedent. Without commenting directly on whether the troop should or should not help pay for an Eagle project, Im more alarmed at the idea that the presence or absence of a precedent should have any influence at all on a decision.

 

Good decisions are made based on the facts and the merits of the case at hand. Making a decision in the future based on following a precedent set now is like making no decision at all, a shirking of responsibility to decide a question based on its merits.

 

If our mission is to help young people make ethical choices over their lifetimes, how can we do that if as adults we make decisions based on a past precedent, or the fear of setting a new one?

[NeilLup 13]

FScouter makes some good points about not being hidebound by precedent, but I respectfully disagree.

 

One of the areas for which we strive is fairness which, to me in this case, means that all Scouts are considered equally and on their merits without consideration of family, being liked or not liked, or other such factors.

 

The opposite of fairness to me is arbitrariness or randomness.

 

I would be EXTREMELY troubled if a Scout wanting help in the funding of his Eagle project could not go to his Troop committee and say "You gave help to Scout XX. Here is my case which is equally good. Will you help me please" and the Committee didn't feel obligation to do their best to help all equally.

 

The case made for the Scout mentioned seemed, as described, weak. The boy seemed not to have planned costs well, he allowed scale creep to happen, he failed in his planned fund raising and there was ugly parental pressure. If the Committee were to deny a second Scout, what reason could they give (other than we don't have the money now) except the coin came up tails or else your parents didn't complain the way that his parents did.

 

I am very surprised by the dismissal of precedent (and by implication to me, of equity and fairness.)

[Trevorum 24]

I agree with Neil, especially since this is the first eagle project in this troop.

 

On the other hand I would have no problem with a candidate asking the committee for a short term loan in a situation where his fundraising will not be complete (for some good reason) by the time he needs to implement the project (for another good scheduling reason). In this case, he would need to propose a realistic payment plan from his anticipated fundraising.

[scoutldr 732]

"If our mission is to help young people make ethical choices over their lifetimes, how can we do that if as adults we make decisions based on a past precedent, or the fear of setting a new one?"

 

I don't have a fear of precedents. Precedents are good. My fear is of unethical precedents, because then everyone expects the same unethical consideration.

 

Presumably troop funds are raised for a purpose. Does the Unit Budget Plan have a line item for "Eagle Project Donations"? If not, then you're done. All you have to tell the parents is that "there is nothing designated for that purpose in our budget." If the committee decides this is something that should be funded, by all means put it in the budget and raise funds for it...for future projects. An alternative is that funds in the Eagle candidate's "Scout Account" can be used for funding their projects. Your Eagle project doubled in price? Then sell more popcorn, or scale back the project. Probably the most important lesson of an Eagle project is that planning and leading includes "funding".

[FScouter 24]

"My fear is of unethical precedents, because then everyone expects the same unethical consideration."

 

Thats my point. We fear more about what other people may think than what is right. A bad decision made in one case in no way obligates bad decisions in the future simply because the first bad decision set a precedent. If a poor decision is made the first time, there is no obligation to make a poor decision a second time simply because we want to be fair. Ignore precedent; a worthy project gets help, a poorly planned project does not. Fair is when decisions are made on the merits of each case, based on the same criteria.