Reneging on SM Conference

[MaScout 10]

Has anyone ever felt the need to renege on a SM Conference before the BOR took place? How would you go about it? Is it "legal"?

 

i.e. SM Conference for Eagle. Boy passed with flying colors. Boy stole $300 (from SM). (Side lesson: Boy is good actor.) BOR not held yet. Can he be held up?

 

[EagleInKY 14]

I think what's done is done. But, that doesn't mean this can't be an issue on the BOR's plate to consider. I would have no issue as a SM telling the BOR that I can no longer recommend this scout, given this latest revelation.

[evmori 11]

Actually, a Scout doesn't pass or fail a SM conference. The requirement for every rank states

 

Take part in a Scoutmaster conference.

 

There is no pass/fail.

 

In your example, the BOR should be asking the Scout how he has shown he is trustworthy. The BOR is the place for this to take place, not the SM conference.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Beavah 205]

Yah, Ed's right, eh?

 

I think what you mean is that you refuse to sign the Eagle Application as unit leader. That is your right, and it "puts the brakes" on the Eagle Scout application process. The council cannot process the application nor can a BOR be convened unless you and the CC sign.

 

The scout can of course appeal, which is the only way for the scout to proceed. The appeal goes to the next higher body (for you refusing to sign as SM, the next higher body would be the unit committee) and on up.

 

[Oak Tree 15]

I think more technically the question would be, can you renege on signing the Scout spirit requirement, which is very typically signed off at the same time as the Scoutmaster conference.

 

I'd say no. But one of the goals of the BOR is to insure that the requirements were actually completed. I think they could certainly conclude that the Scout spirit requirement was not, in fact, adequately completed, and they could indicate what the Scout would have to do in order to actually fulfill the requirement.

 

And then the fun starts.

 

Oak Tree

[evmori 11]

Oak Tree,

 

Scout Spirit is defined as living the Scout Oath & Law in your everyday life. How is stealing $300 from you SM let alone anyone living the Oath & Law in your everyday life? Is the 13th point of the Scout Law Felonious?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[LongHaul 10]

MaScout,

Are you sure beyond a reasonable doubt? I'm not asking for details, the question is retorical. You can make the BOR aware of your concerns and bid by their decision. Thought about pressing charges?

 

Beavah,

The term "unit leader" is not synonomous with Scoutmaster. If they meant Scoutmaster it would say Scoutmaster. The Council Advancement Chair in Chicago Area Council wants the unit Advancement Chair to sign the application.

LongHaul

[MaScout 10]

Caught red-handed & confessed. No room AT ALL for doubt. Scout fights some depression. Learning much by leaps & bounds. Not considering charges -- I just can't do it. I don't feel that is the best way for this lad to learn. Maybe I'm too much of a soft touch? This is one concern when a woman/mom is in the role of SM. But I have sought much council, and all seem to be in agreement with me in not pressing charges.

 

Actually, I did let the District Advancement Chair know (he insists on attending all Eagle BOR's). We had a SM conference and a troop BOR about it. Parents present. He was given some suggestions & told to wait for maturity. When the time is right, the DAC wants to know & will to schedule BOR. As a team, we are all working to help this young man advance...and I don't just mean get his Eagle, I mean advance in maturity, knowledge, etc. To BECOME an Eagle.

[Beavah 205]

The term "unit leader" is not synonomous with Scoutmaster. If they meant Scoutmaster it would say Scoutmaster. The Council Advancement Chair in Chicago Area Council wants the unit Advancement Chair to sign the application.

 

Well, dat's a new one.

 

It doesn't say Scoutmaster because of course the unit leader for an Eagle could be a Varsity Team Coach or a Venturing Crew Advisor. But I've always understood the term "unit leader" in all the BSA literature to mean the chief operational adult of the unit.

 

That seems to be the reasonable way to interpret "the unit leader" in the context of the Advancement guidelines. Specifically policy statements like "unit leaders, assistant unit leaders, relatives, or guardians may not serve as members of a Scouts' board of review"

 

The unit advancement chair presumably would participate in BOR's as a member of the committee - and so can't be "the unit leader," eh? In fact, that same section says "One member serves as chairman (of the BOR), usually the committee member responsible for advancement."

 

I believe your CAC in CAC might not be interpreting the intent correctly. But then, I bet you're not surprised that the Chicago council isn't getting things right, eh?

 

[GopherJudy 10]

Ma Scout,

 

Being diagnosed with depression is not a valid reason or excuse for this scout to steal. Depression is feeling useless,constantly sad, no or very low self-esteem, giving up on life, losing interest in things you loved doing, etc. I know as I've been diagnosed with clinical depression & have been on anti-depressants since April 1999 & I never once thought of stealing anything! IMO the scout committed a crime & should be punished & I don't think he's Eagle "material" (for lack of a better word). Also, $300.00 is a lot of money, it's not pocket change.

 

Judy

[Oak Tree 15]

Ed,

 

I'm sorry, I don't think I understand your question. My post said (or at least was trying to say) that the Scout did not meet the Scout spirit requirement, and that the BOR could say that he did not.

 

My other point was related to whether or not a Scoutmaster could "un-sign" a requirement. I would tend to say that you should not do so. But at no point did I intend to say that the behavior was acceptable.

 

Oak Tree

[Oak Tree 15]

LongHaul,

 

I hate to make it a habit of always agreeing with any one poster, but Beavah's right about the unit leader terminology.

 

Here's the quote from the "Language of Scouting" glossary on the national web site (http://www.scouting.org/identity/los/los.jsp?typ=los&how=alfa&wat=U)

 

unit leader

The adult leader of a unit is a Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, Coach, Advisor, or Skipper.

 

Oak Tree

[Double Eagle 128]

Boy, can this get long. Keeping it short. No everyone deserves to be an Eagle Scout. Usually the rank is an after-affect after scouting and learning. Do we scout for the prestige and rank or skill, values, and citizenship. I think I would let the BOR know of this event after the SM conference took place. I'm interested in how it was paid back (Parents or him, with your money or his). How many youth know, what was his position in the troop. As a board of review member, better it come out there than wait afterward. How it was handled by the youth is my biggest concern. If not caught, what would have been next, an eagle stealing from a scout, troop, school, or parents. In nature, some young eagles never reach maturity, they fall from the nest, fall to predators, or just never have the will to live. Here we are questioning whether scouting's highest award to go to a scout that steals from his scouting family without addressing the need for the money. If for emergency medicine, starving family, or something like that, I could see good intent, poor execution. For personal reasons (too lazy to work for it), my feathers would droop that day.

[Eagledad 2779]

>>Actually, I did let the District Advancement Chair know (he insists on attending all Eagle BOR's). We had a SM conference and a troop BOR about it. Parents present. He was given some suggestions & told to wait for maturity. When the time is right, the DAC wants to know & will to schedule BOR. As a team, we are all working to help this young man advance...and I don't just mean get his Eagle, I mean advance in maturity, knowledge, etc. To BECOME an Eagle.

[evmori 11]

Oak Tree,

 

You posted

 

I think more technically the question would be, can you renege on signing the Scout spirit requirement, which is very typically signed off at the same time as the Scoutmaster conference.

 

I'd say no.

 

Which I understood to mean you didn't think you could renege on signing the Scout Spirit requirement for this Scout. I guess I read that wrong. Sorry

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10