GernBlansten Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 When is an Eagle no longer an Eagle? In an EBOR last night, after announcing that the board had approved the scout's rank advancement to Eagle, the Council Eagle representative told the young man that there are only two ways to lose your Eagle, murder and moral transgressions. Is this true? I thought it was once and Eagle, always an Eagle. This gentleman made other claims during the prep for the BOR that I knew were 100% wrong, and in fact had to challenge him on several of them to even have the board held. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleInKY Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Never heard that one before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Ask him on what page that rule may be found, otherwise it's only wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 I actually had to ask him that question when he claimed the scout didn't fulfill his POR requirement because it wasn't in the last six months. I opened the handbook and read him the requirement, he disagreed. I asked him to read it again and explain his reasoning. He said he knew the rule and that was how he understood it. It took two other board members to balk before he conceeded that he was wrong. Voices didn't get raised but nearly did. This went on and on. After the board, us adults just shook our heads that someone who represents the Council Eagle Committee was so misguided. He really wore us down. Unfortunately, I have three more scouts who have BORs with him this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleInKY Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 I think I'd go to either the District Advancement Chair or Council Advancement Chair to get this guy removed or trained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaScout Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Our District Advancement Chair has always told us that Eagle is the only rank that can be revoked. I can't quote where this is written, but have believed this to be true for many years. I may have believed wrong. However, a young man (Eagle) in our community was arrested for drug trafficking and this issue came up. We were told the proper steps to take for Eagle revocation... That aside, the guy sounds like a blustering fellow who is a little full of himself. He needs to follow the rules and chill out. Is he your District Advancement Chair? If not, ask the DAC to assign you someone different and explain why. If so, go to your DE or your Council Advancement Chair for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleInKY Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 I believe it's true that former Eagles have had their rank revoked... I believe that was behind one of the gay-related cases. I guess what I take issue with is the attitude and the "only two ways"... I would guess National can revoke it for a variety of reasons. But why in the world would you say that to a new Eagle candidate? And, then the whole thing about the POR. This guy obviously doesn't understand the rules or the reason for the BOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 How on earth can any rank be revoked, after the fact? Lacking evidence of falsification on the Eagle application, once it is approved by National, that's it. National can perhaps wish that certain people had never earned the Eagle, but unlike the military, you can't be stripped of rank and busted down to Life or Second Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 I was about to ask that same question, Trevorum. Unless someone can prove fraud I don't see any other grounds for revocation. Can anyone think of a single case where the rank HAS been revoked? And can it be confirmed independently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaji Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Probably a bit dated since the site hasn't been updated in a while, but I seem to recall Mike Walton in his discussion on camo making note of the fact that the SE has the legal right to strip someone of all scouting effects they have, something about the emblems being property of the movement and all that stuff. Could this guy be mixing up the two? I'd heard rumor about it as well, but then again the person cited Charles Manson as his case, and I seem to recall a Snopes trip calling that claim false... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Charles Manson! Holy moley, I'd never even imagined a possibility like that. Is there any way to find out if headline criminals are eagle scouts? Seems like there should at least be a comprehensive database of all eagles ever awarded...but then I think about the records-incompetence at the council....Naaah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 If I recall correctly, Mike Walton's point was that the insignia belong, technically, to the BSA and NOT to any individual person. That means that a SE could concievably confiscate the insignias being illicity displayed by, say, Destiny's Child. However, even if the BSA could "repo" someones Eagle badge, that still wouln't "un-Eagle" him. He would just be an Eagle without a badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 ... why am I suddenly reminded of Chuck Connors ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 From the Insignia Guide: "All badges and insignia of the Boy Scouts of America shall be used exclusively by members of the Boy Scouts of America, registered and in good standing ..." . "All badges and insignia shall remain the property of the Boy Scouts of America subject to recall for cause by the Corportion or its duly authorized representative." "It shall be the responsibility of all members of the Boy Scouts of America ... to cooperate with the Corporation in preventing the use of the official uniforms by those who are not members of the organization in good standing." Chuck Conners was a pitcher for the Dodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Interesting, I'm not sure how that ownership part translates but I'd guess that anyone who thought they could confiscate those awards should first see how easy it would be to break a real sword. From the first time I saw that stupid show I wondered at how the cavalry ever won a single battle if their swords were that fragile. They hack away at necks and other swords but when they meet the hands of a panty-waisted officer they snap like they're made of, maybe ceramics or something. As for me, they'll take my eagle when they pry my cold dead fingers from around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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