Camping MB when do you start counting?

[LongHaul]

All you Camping Merit Badge Councelors out there. Questions have been raised "Do all 20 nights of camping for REQ. 9 have to be completed AFTER the date the blue card is first issued?" Question 2 "Req 9 states that nights must be spent under the stars or in a tent you pitched except for the nights at summer camp. Does this mean that you can sleep in a tent already pitched or that you can sleep in a cabin?"

[TheScout]

Obviously a Scout can not sleep in cabin. Read the requirement. And he must pitch his own tent unless it is for long term camping as noted in the requirment.

[LongHaul]

Exactly unless it is for long term camping. Then what? Must he still sleep in a tent? We can imply that cabins don't count but does it actually say that? What it says is "Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched (long-term camp excluded)." Being "Old School" I know how I read that, what I want to know is how to the rest of you read that.

LongHaul(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[FScouter]

The intent is that boys will not be penalized simply because the summer camp they attend has wall tents already pitched. Though they didn't pitch it, they camped and slept in it.

 

I don't know of any summer camps where Scouts sleep in cabins, but if that's the case they should not be penalized because of the camp sleeping facilities.

[evmori]

Cabin camping doesn't count. As far as counting the total nights, I use from the time the Scout joined Boy Scouts.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Trevorum]

I agree with Ed (this is getting to be a pattern) The count starts as soon as a boy joins the troop (cub camping does not count nor the family's trip to Yosemite in 1st Grade).

 

However, the gray area is: Does camping with his family (or another group) while a Boy Scout also count, or must it be with the troop? We opt for the former (as long as it is tent camping) under the theory that the objective is to get the boy outdoors.

[Trevorum]

re: summer camp - I remember as a boy, one summer we went Camp Chawanakee and camped in covered wagons! That was cool.

[msnowman]

In regards to Cabin camping - our Scout Camp has sites that are tented (no problem, we know those count) and some sites that have Adirondaks. Since the Adirondaks are enclosed and made of wood, they would probably best be considered cabins, though ones without electricity. So, does this mean that a Troop that draws the Addies as their site doesn't get to count those nights towards the Camping MB?

And who, ultimately decides if it counts? My guess would be the MBC, which for our Troop happens to be SM.

 

Michelle

[Hunt]

I remember a former thread in which some folks thought sleeping in a cave wouldn't count because it was not under the stars. I think that would be a judgment call.

 

My interpretation of these requirements would be that any camping since beginning scouting should count (otherwise, it would make sense to hand out Camping blue cards at their first meeting). Second, I would recognize camping at a BSA long-term camp that was really "camp." If it's really a conference in a building or something, maybe not. Part of this requirement is to encourage scouts to go to summer camp.

[FScouter]

"Cabin camping doesn't count."

 

Ed, you are wrong.

The requirement for 20 nights specifically excludes long-term camp from the "under the sky or in a tent" requirement. The word "cabin" does not even appear in the requirements.

[dan]

I do not count time camping before the Blue Card was obtained.

 

I have informed scouts that if they want the time at summer camp to count toward the MB, to take the tent down and repitch it. (I believe that Korea Scouter gave me that idea, thanks)

 

My sons troop sometimes goes to a summer camp that have cabins, so to speak, made from wood, four bunks in them, I do not allow the scouts to use those nights toward the requirement. I have had some scouts take a tent and sleep in that for the week, so it would count toward the MB.

[anarchist]

Whoa FScouter...cite a BSA source that proves Ed is wrong...

I think hands down it is your interpretation that is wrong...and the majority of the posters here are right...

 

first, it is a camping merit badge...not the log cabin lodge merit badge...

 

then; the requirement starts..."Show experience in camping by doing the following: Camp...at least 20 daysand nights under the starts or in a tent you have pitched"... and the modifier (long-term camp excluded) is adjacent to "pitched" and not adjacent to tent. IMHO if they were excusing tenting for long term camp the requirement would/should read inpart {...sleep under the sky or in a tent (long term camp excluded) that you have pitched...} 'course I could be wrong too...

 

we could discuss whether cabin camping is "camping" or just roughing it a little more than we do at home...but this is about a camping merit badge, in an organization that professes the desire to foster out-of-doors experiences that are "vital" (BSAs word -not mine) to the program.

 

as they say in the mid west ..."show me"

Anarchist

(This message has been edited by anarchist)

[FScouter]

The requirement states very clearly "You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement." The "sleep" arrangement specifies "under the sky or in a tent you have pitched" and clarifies that by excluding long-term camp which is clearly allowed in the sentence immediately preceding. It is crystal clear that the sleeping arrangements do NOT apply to long-term camp.

 

If long-term camp was not acceptable for the Camping merit badge, the requirement would simply say long term camp not acceptable. Instead, it specifically says a week of long-term camp IS allowed and that it is EXCEPTED from the sky or tent rule.

 

So, theres your proof.

[Hunt]

See, here's a fine example of the distinction between adding to the requirements and interpreting the requirements. dan, sorry to direct this at you. First, when you say you only count nights of camping after the blue card is signed, I think you are interpreting the requirements--in my opinion, overly strictly--but within your rights as a MBC. On the other hand, when you make the boys repitch the tent at long-term camp, you are clearly adding to the requirement.

The requirement says: "Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched (long term camp excluded)."

What is crystal clear from this is that a week at camp in a tent counts, whether the boy pitched the tent or not. I think the requirement was formerly worded differently, but that's the wording and the clear meaning now.

As for "camping" in a cabin, I would have to say that the language is still a bit ambiguous. It may well mean, as Fscouter argues, that a week at camp counts, wherever you sleep. On the other hand, it could mean, as anarchist suggests, that it's just intended to allow nights to count in the semi-permanent tents many BSA camps uses. As I indicated before, if one of the purposes of this exception to the requirement is to encourage boys to go to summer camp, then I think FScouter has the better of that particular point--I don't think there are too many cabins at BSA camps anyway.

[evmori]

Show experience in camping by doing the following:

 

1. Camp a total of at least 20 days and nights. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched (long-term camp excluded).

 

If you interpret "Sleep each night under the sky" as sleeping in a cabin then why not count the nights the Scout sleeps in his own bed in his own house? And heck, the Scout could even pitch a tent in his living room & sleep in it! In three weeks this Scout will have this requirement completed!

 

No wonder we have problems!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10