desertrat77

18 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

When I was 12 as a Scout I had one of those egg crate pads on a wooden pallet, (we could see the shiny spider eyes through the boards under us).  I will be 46 this year and I can't sleep like that anymore.

I'm at that point myself. 

The shiny night time spider eyes...memories of summer camp in OK....

21 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I might be stupid!!!  We had a Council "Camp-In" this weekend.  We all camped at home, did Scout things during the day, and shared on the Council FB page what we did.  Anyway, last night was another miserable night.  Waking up every so often hurting.  I have been opening the valve on my sleeping pad and throwing it in the tent to inflate while I do other stuff.  Never been much of a pad.  I decided to get out in the house tonight and open the valve and just watch it.  It wasn't doing a lot.  I fished the instructions out of the bag and it said to blow on the valve to desired firmness.  Well, now its a good two inches thick and firm.  I feel pretty stupid.

Its an ALPS pad if that makes any difference.

Last year I finally humbled myself and bought an inflatable sleeping pad.   (Ego, I can sleep on the ground, my 35 year old foam pad still works just fine, etc...not so much any more!).  All that to say I had a remarkably similar experience to the one you described.   

On 4/19/2020 at 8:49 AM, Cburkhardt said:

Instead of readjusting things as we downsized, leadership rolled things forward and overspent on vanity camp projects — even borrowing funds and forcing future volunteer Scouters to inherit the debt.  Well, no more.  That era has ended.  

This is great news.  My longstanding beef with council fundraising is that as a unit and district level scouter, I have very little input in how my dollars are spent.   

I've found from experience that any inquiry to council staff (above DE level) regarding projects or financial matters is not well received.  The boundaries are very clear:  I write checks, the council spends my money, period.

@BBQ, welcome to Scouter.com!

1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

And in the Bay Area tentatively

https://missionpeakscouts.com/possible-merge-of-sfbac-mdsc-alameda-council/

Interesting!  SF Bay Area and Mt Diablo-Silverado attempted a merger several years ago. 

Word on the street (from back then):  SFBA was struggling with units and membership but had plenty of dollars in trusts left to them during the BSA's heyday.   Essentially more money than they knew what to do with it.  So SFBA reached out to Mt DS for a possible merger.

Exploratory committee...then a vote...the nays carried the day.  Mt DS said "no thanks." 

Thanks @RememberSchiff!

A silly question that I should know the answer to but don't:  were any of these digital interactive merit badge pamphlets ever launched to the field?

The promised 15 April update from Philmont.  Upshot:  Go/No Go decision for each high adventure base will be announced on 1 May.

https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/coronavirus/

"X Scouts earned Y badges/ranks/geegaws in Z period of time."

Apparently, this is scouting at the council and national levels. 

The few folks left at HQ in Irving TX will still be leaning on councils for such data until their laptops and powerpoint projectors are liquidated in the settlement.

Quantity over quality.  

Update from Philmont...on-line staff training...staff report dates...crew arrival dates....

10 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Sadly you are correct. Last time I was an MBC at camp, I taught Lifesaving MB. I had between 25 and 30 students, and I was by myself. A lot of the skills for Lifesaving MBC at the time were skills I taught as a YMCA Lifeguard Instructor, and had a minimum of 2 instructors and  a ratio of student to instructors to follow. I want to say the ratio was 6:1. So I should have had more instructors.

I also had some discipline issues the first day. Constantly not paying attention, disrupting class, etc. I kicked them out of the class. Later that evening, the CD tell me he heard  from the SM that I kicked out his Scouts, and that I needed to  let them back in as I cannot kick out Scouts. When I informed him of the problems these Scouts were causing and how it was interfering with the other Scouts, he did not care. Long story short, NO ONE completed the MB that week because I had to deal with problems and I could not meet all the requirements as a result. Of course I had a bunch of angry SMs to deal with, and the angriest and most obnoxious was the SM of the Scouts who caused the problems.

My Venture Daughter had a very similar experience when she taught LS MB at camp a few years ago.  Solo instructor, way too many students, disruptive scouts could not be dismissed, and dealing with loud, oafish adult leaders.  It was very stressful for her but she hung in there and did the best she could.  Trial by fire, "character building" time.

One of those weeks, I was across the waterfront most of the days, a student in the LG BSA class (superbly managed) and witnessed, from afar, what passed for swimming and boating instruction as well.  Far too many students for the instructors and equipment at hand.  Instruction varied in quality.  The rowing instructor couldn't row a boat and his lack of energy for any aspect of his job reflected.   Other instructors were solid but struggled to do their best to cope with the large class rosters and lack of equipment.

I guess for many councils, that's the plan--to milk those cash cows they call summer camps--under hire, keep maintenance costs low by not repairing things, buy cheap equipment, serve heat/eat processed pre-school meals, and yet pack those troops in camp elbow to elbow. 

With the dynamics of the BSA's bankruptcy and COVID 19, I don't think councils can afford to cheat the customer as they have in the past.  The BSA broke trust with many scouters and families with the dues debacle last year.  For many, it was the proverbial "straw."  Families were experiencing financial difficulties prior to COVID 19--the problems are only compounded now, as you know.

These issues aside, one of my council's camps saw a significant drop in attendance last summer.  They have worked hard to resolve the reasons why (poor quality/not enough staff, poor maintenance, lousy food, etc.) and have done quite a job in the off season to turn over a new leaf. 

Great discussion!

While there are seams in federal and state response, the most glaring shortfall I see is the lack of preparedness at the local level--county health departments and local hospitals.

There was nothing preventing hospitals--particularly big ones in highly populated urban areas--from stocking up on PPE and other equipment ("be prepared").  However, rainy day/contingency stock piles do not impress the bean counters that run health care today.   Just in time inventory, who needs all of that dead stock lying around, wing and a prayer, nothing bad is going to happen to us...and if it does, the governor or president will send us what we need.  Maybe, maybe not.

Counties usually operate on a shoe string budget, but the health departments should be more robust in terms of planning, personnel and equipment.

I believe contingency planning and preparedness, like charity, begins "at home."

Speaking of home, it's time to start bring manufacturing back to the US, particularly those products of strategic level importance.  It boggles the mind how vulnerable we've become, putting much of our country's manufacturing capability in the hands of a Communist government.  

I like @qwazse's idea of an after-action camp fire.  We're going to need it, especially for the camaraderie, but also for getting ready for the next "bug."  Because this won't be the last virus that comes our way.  There will be more.  In the future, we'll have to be quicker, smarter, better equipped.  Solid play book, more buy-in and less finger pointing and political hay-making.  

3 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Note pages 144 thru 185 (42 pages!) list all BSA registered internet domains with "undetermined" value. The domains are in alphabetical order in small font, roughly 31 domains per page. 31 x 42 = 1302 domains more or less? The BSA even registered scouter.org (expires 2021-10-16)!  What a waste of money!

@RememberSchiff, thanks for being lead blocker on this research!

Those domains are definitely of "undetermined" value.  Many are near duplicates.  Just as many are obscure.  Most of them probably aren't worth anything close to what the BSA paid/pays for them.  Just a jumble of stuff.  All over the map.

2 hours ago, carebear3895 said:

To be fair, the Professional has always been that way. That was by design by Mr. West himself. 

Very true, Carebear.  I'm referring to the expensive, top-heavy layers of the BSA (National and some councils).   Lots of resources are consumed at those levels, and little of it translates to value for the unit.

Well said, @Mrjeff.

I've watched the professional levels of the BSA over the decades become more and more distant from grass roots scouting.   Same with the council and National committees.

@GrantWherry, welcome to scouter.com!

@BPPatrolonaRoll, welcome to scouter.com!

On the topic of socks....

When I was an ASM many moons ago, one of the SMs I worked with was a Viet Nam vet, long range recon patrol (LRRP).  He said at the beginning of his training in-country, he was told to dispose of his socks, t-shirts and underwear.  Why?  Extra weight, always wet, breeding ground for nastiness, just another hassle.  They couldn't stop to change socks after every stream crossing.  It might be several days before they could even take their boots off.  So it was bare feet, brand new stiff jungle boots, put em on, lace em up, move out.

When I was training for NT a few years ago, I bought a pair of decent jungle boots, panama sole, drain ports on the side.  Then I decided to take a page from my friend's book.  I started hiking around the neighborhood in the jungle boots with no socks.  Progressed to mowing the lawn and longer hikes, sans socks.

You can imagine what it was like at first--uncomfortable, hot spots, etc.  But after a couple weeks, my feet toughened up and the jungle boots broke in beautifully.  For me, it was the way to go.

Regret to say I cannot provide any further review.  Our NT trek was cancelled.  But my experiment has worked wonders for subsequent hikes and backpacking with traditional boots and socks.  I find I can hike all day with wet socks and my feet are fine. 

A ray of good news:

Scout service, kudos to all!

Paramus Boy Scouts, New Milford Fire Department and college staff cook meals for testing site operators

http://newjersey.news12.com/story/41974200/paramus-boy-scouts-new-milford-fire-department-and-college-staff-cook-meals-for-testing-site-operators

If we are given the "all clear" in time for summer camp (and HA), and if councils are in earnest, they could take a page from our local school district:

One Saturday before school starts, several volunteer doctors and nurses assemble at a central location and give free sports physicals for all the youth in the school district.  Many families avail themselves of this offer.  It meets the requirement, it's good for the school year, and it's free.  An enterprising council staff could set up something similar. 

Alas, it may not matter. I too have the impression there will be no activities this summer.   I still believe that, if permitted, some camping could be done.  Fewer people jammed in campsites, patrols camping farther away from the troop, campsite boundaries pushed way out from the norm.  Emphasize patrol cooking and outdoor activities that encourage fresh air and small groups.  

Waive the requirement mandating adults supervise every patrol activity.  Send the patrols on hikes by themselves.  Allow them to cook in their campsite, with the SPL stopping by now and again to see how things are going.  Trained and trusted, they can handle the responsibility and will have a better scouting experience.

This would explain the two emails I received asking for early FOS donations.  One was from my council, the other from the district community exec.

20 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

Another issue for rebuilding the Scouting program is the cost.  The powers that be or were,  doubled the registration fee.  That alone made Scouting cost prohibitive for some of the guys.  Now with businesses closing, the added expense of having the kids out of school for an indefinite period (extra food, higher utility Bill's, child care...) individuals being out of work, many just won't be able to afford the Scouts.  What a challenge we all face. It may revert to the days when a couple of tarps, a tent or two, and some blankets, and a friendly farmer's field make up a Scout trip.

True!

May I add:  in the future, if a uniform is considered a neckerchief or a scout t-shirt, so be it.  Does a Cub Scout really need a new hat, buckle, neckerchief and slide each time they advance in rank?  Thirty bucks per scout, each rank.

Or ask scouts to buy a set of Dickies work clothes from the local department store.  Sew on patch or two, perhaps add a neckerchief, and call it a uniform.

Update from Philmont:

https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/coronavirus/