CHLees3rd

BadenP, I think you hit the nail on the head; the BSA did get it wrong when it renamed the award. It should have been renamed the Boy Scouter Award. That would make it much like the Cub Scouter Award which Pack Committee Members can pursue and earn. Then there would be no confusion about which volunteers could get it. I'll send off an email suggestion to National. YiS, Chazz Lees

BadenP, When I was awarded the award back in 1992, it was called the Scouter's Training Award and not the current Boy Scout Leader's Training Award. Back then Committee Members earned it too. I have been told that long ago before the six current Cub Scouting knot awards, all Scouters, even Cub Scouters, used to get the Scouter's Training award and the Scouter's Key. I am pretty sure the Scouters who told me this also mentioned it was before my time as I do not remember it. I do not think the BSA changed the name to exclude Committee Members so much as to specify to all that the award was for adults involved with troops in the Boy Scout Division. YiS, Chazz Lees

Absolutely! The Tenure for Committee Members is the same as it is for Scoutmasters- two years. The Performance options are the same-do five of them. The difference is the Training section. Since there is no course named "Troop Committee Specific Training" for Committee Members to take, my unit has them take the Troop Committee Challenge which describes how a Troop Committee works to support a troop. We consider it a suitable substitute. Scoutmasters must take Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training and Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills. All take the online This is Scouting for the retired instructor-led New Leader Essentials course. For the most part, the Performance options are the things we want Scouters in a troop to do. I discovered earlier this year that the Scoutmaster and three Asst. Scoutmasters in my troop had fulfilled all the requirements for the award yet none of them had it. I got together with the Committee Chair and we completed and submitted progress records for each to District. District approved them and gave us certificates, medals, and knot patches for each Scouters. I presented the awards to the Scouters at the last Court of Honor the troop had. They were very surprised and very honored. I'll be submitting the paperwork for the Committee Chair next as he just completed his fifth Performance option. YiS, Chazz Lees

I remember earning the World Crest with the rest of my troop after a trip to Canada. Our troop was the only one in town with all members wearing the World Crest. About a year later the BSA announced that all registered members would start wearing it. Annoyed the heck out of everyone in the troop. The World Crest went from being an excited Big Deal to whatever big deal. Chazz Lees

CHOMP! CHOMP! TIMBERRRRR! Chazz Lees I used to be a Beaver...twice NE-I-158 & NE-I-258

TDK, You may want to check out geocaching.com. Also, check out the Boy Scout Geocaching merit badge book as it is full of information needed for Boy Scouts to complete the merit badge. Chazz Lees

So the dad resigned from the unit. Curious, did he pull the boys out too? Chazz Lees

Basementdweller, I have no idea if he will buy himself a Silver Beaver. Hopefully his council won't allow it to happen. Of course, in these time, every little bit counts! Anyway, my point was that the BSA came up with a way to reward financial donors without having to use the District Award of Merit or Silver Beaver. I remember hearing grumblings 20-25 years ago about people given the District Award of Merit because they consistently donated huge amounts of money to the council. Never understood why the council just didn't get a nice plaque for the donor. I do not think it is ridiculous for someone to honor his/her young son with a West Fellowship and knot just as I do not think it is wrong to honor someone not in Scouting. The one contributing the money gets to choose and the reasons are all his or hers. It can be for someone's Godchild or the first boss who took a chance on him/her. Now the guy in the story Eagle92 mentioned purchased the awards for the knots. The only thing I felt when reading about it was how sad is that guy? He seems to have such low self-esteem issues and such a desire to be the center of attention that he was willing to spend $1000 on a small piece of material. That's sad. This guy will never be satisfied. As for the guy's son, I agree that he will more than likely have issues due to his father. However, I seriously doubt the West knot will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. If anything, the knot will be one of many, many, many things that causes problems. I have known people in Scouting who were like this guy and I also knew their kids. The kids turned out one of three ways: (1) exactly like dad trying to one-up everyone in view with what they had; (2) couldn't stand dad's ambition for them and did everything in their control to hurt dad. One Scout I knew had older brothers who all aged out at Life. Dad wanted his son to get Eagle because it was Dad's last chance to have an Eagle son. Son did everything dad told him to do including completing the Eagle project. With two merit badges to go, the Scout just gave up and refused to speak to the merit badge counselor. The Scout aged-out as a Lifer just like his brothers. It was the ultimate one-finger salute I had ever seen by Scout to an overbearing dad; (3) act like their mothers and lead fairly good, easy going lives. Chazz Lees

"The J.E.West Knot is one of those that can be abused. I've seen it where one person bought one for his entire family: Wolf Cub, Explorer daughter, wife, and himself." E92, I do not see this as abuse. Abuse would be if the Vigil-wannabe wears the knot even though his check bounced and he hasn't yet made good on the transaction. I say let him buy all the the West knots he wants to buy. I do not see his actions hurting anyone except himself, but he will never notice because he will be too busy telling to look at his knot. In fact, Scouts are benefiting from his extremely huge ego. I would rather see him treat himself to a West knot than for him to buy himself a District Award of Merit or Silver Beaver. That would be abuse! Chazz Lees

Scoutfish, I was in the Marine Reserves as a young ASM. My Scoutmaster told me that if I ever got deployed, my duties would just go to another ASM. With deployments of both active and reserve forces more common than back then, you really need to develop a succession plan for all your adult volunteers so that transitions are relatively smooth when someone is not available for whatever amount of time. Be sure you do it for all leaders and not just the ones in the military. Corporate America sends its employees off to jobs elsewhere with little notice too. Heck, even those leaders who do not travel need to be included in the plan because things happen. For example, a leader may be locally employed and only works in the general area; however, the leader could get injured and out for an extended period of time. If you have backup plans for leadership both in general terms and for specific activities, the likelihood that a campout or other event is canceled is diminished. Also, if the backup works with the Scouts every now and then, the behavior issues associated with Scouts trying to test their boundaries with a "new" leader will also be diminished. Good luck, Chazz Lees

Stosh, Something about an earlier post of yours did not sound right so I checked it out. Scoutmaster-assigned leadership projects can only be used in place of a POR for the Star and Life ranks, not Eagle. I have a copy of the new 12th edition on my desk with Star requirements on p. 438, Life on p.439, and Eagle pg.440-1. Eagle candidates have to do hold a specific position. Chazz Lees

No reason why a Webelos can not contact his leader during the summer and ask to meet one evening to go over and sign off requirements. If the WDL is available and willing, why not? Stops calls of favoritism. However, if the WDL said no to a Scout who calls for a meeting and then his/her son completes a ton of activity pins during the summer, then there is a problem. Flames the fire of favoritism! Chazz Lees

My wife and I are both leaders in my daughter's Girl Scout troop. My wife is the leader and I am one of three assistant leaders. When they were Daisy Girl Scouts (Grades K and 1) we had no problems with any of the Scouts earning their petals. Now our first graders have bridged to Brownies where Scouts can work individually on Try-It badges. (Try-Its are similar to merit badges except Scouts only need to do any four of the requirements to earn them and the awards are age-appropiate for second and third-graders.) Going forward we, the leaders, decided that each Brownie should keep a log/notebook/journal where she would record all Try-It requirements she completed. We figured that it would help the Brownies who wanted to start working on Try-Its during the summer. (Many have told me this summer that they are working towards the badges and everything is in their books.) When we start up in September, the Brownies can sit with a leader and go over everything they did during the summer. The leader can then gives the thumbs up for the earning of the badge. In order to shield us from calls of favoritism, we also decided than none of us would check and sign off advancement for our own daughters. Our daughters would have to see another leader who is not her parent to check and sign off advancement-related activities. Basically, all the leaders will need to do is review the logbooks with the Scouts to see if the requirement was completed. Since I cannot sign off my daughter's work, there should be no calls of favoritism when she gets four badges in September. No reason why Den Leaders can not do the same in Cub Scouting. They can use an Asst. Den Leader or the Cubmaster or a Pack Committee member who is knowledgeable about what needs to be done to successfully complete a requirement. If another knowledgeable person is not available, the Den Leader can ask another adult to witness the reviewing of requirements. For example, a Den Leader asks a parent to witness his/her review of son's requirements. DL tells Scout to tie a square knot and Scout ties the knot in front of both adults. If the parent is not that knowledgeable about the requirement, he or she can look at the book while the Scouts completes the task. This stops any calls of favoritism because the Den Leader can say an independent adult witnessed the work too. Chazz Lees

CPAMom, Submitting paperwork to council does nothing more than show the Webelos has successfully earned the AOL. It does not force him out of the pack. In fact, he could choose to stay with the pack until the school year or unit charter ends if for some reason he wanted to do so. Most Webelos do not stay wanting the adventure of a troop, but the choice is his. As for no one else having earned the AOL, well look at it this way: The other Webelos could have worked towards earning by now too if they wanted. Perhaps seeing one of their own wearing it will cause them to go after it too if that is what they want. On the other hand, who's to say that any of other Scouts will earn the AOL. I had friends in my Webelos den that did not earn it and still had a great time. Why punish your son for the work, or lack thereof, of others. Chazz Lees

Regardless of when anyone in your family transfers to a Boy Scout troop, your son should get his AOL award as soon as possible. Why would you wait on this? He has earned the highest award in Cub Scouting; shouldn't he be allowed to wear it proudly while still in the pack? When I was awarded the AOL at a pack meeting, I bridged over to the troop at the same time. However, I pinned the AOL medal badge on my left pocket flap and proudly wore it for the rest of the night at that pack meeting. Chazz Lees

Qwazse Thank you for your response. Im a Unit Commissioner, and the reason why I posted was not so much for the Advisors who love getting awards but for the committee members who want to recognize their advisors for a job well done. Unfortunately, the way the requirement is worded, Venturing Crews have to figure out how to satisfy it unlike Cub/Boy/Varsity/Sea Scouting units which have advancement built into their programs. Im not trying to get around the requirement on a technicality or because of semantics. Im just trying to fit what Venturers do into the award. And while I agree that focused Venturing Crews may have an easier time with the requirement, I think general interest Venturing Crews should be able to satisfy this requirement too by taking a look at their Venturers recognitions in whatever form they are. How do you recognize your Venturers accomplishments in your general interest crew? Im sure there are others involved with general interest Venturing Crews who are trying to figure this one out too. Chazz Lees

5. Effectively use the advancement method so that at least 60 percent of the units youth have advanced at least once during the last 12 months. Since advancement is not a Venturing method, I would argue that any recognition/certification/award that Venturers work towards and earns would count as advancement in terms of personal growth. If a Crew specializes in first aid/EMT activities, their advanced first aid training should count. If a Ship loves to dive but does no sailing, their SCUBA certification should count. A Crew that specializes in culinary arts where its members won cooking contests should count those awards. Earning the International Activity Award, Venturing World Conservation Award, or 50-Miler Award should count as advancement the same way that Venturers going from Star to Life counts. While these activities may not be in the way that the person or committee that wrote the requirement intended, the Venturers are still working and learning and achieving. That to me is advancement and it should satisfy Requirement 5. Chazz Lees

Kudu, Please do not take this as a flippant remark as I am really sincerely asking, but have you written your Congressman and/or Senators about how you feel the BSA is not living up to what is in the Congressional Charter? If so, will you share the reply or replies you have received? Any chance that Congress may revoke the charter or compel the BSA to adhere to the conditions? YiS, Chazz Lees

I've taken Wood Badge twice. First took the course in 1992 but I did not complete the ticket. Took it again on 2008 and earned my beads. Both Wood Badge courses showed up in my report. The dates listed for both were the last day of each course's last weekend. Chazz Lees

I looked at it a few days ago and the dates for the training I completed were correct. Since it was missing a ton of other training I completed, I will photocopy the cards of the missing courses and will send to my council registrar. It is a good way to see what training council is aware of you completing. Chazz Lees

SM52, You wrote, "In my opinion the uniform guidelines should be changed to allow those who have earned the rank of Eagle Scout the option to wear the oval rank patch. It still is my opinion that outsiders who see the rank understand it and do not understand the knot." That is probably true, but does it really matter? Only if the outsider sees you in uniform and asks if you are an Eagle Scout. As an Eagle Scout who had his Eagle BOR seventeen days after his eighteenth birthday, I have always worn the Eagle knot and never had a problem with it. This is how I handle the question when outsiders see me in uniform and ask. I point to my Eagle knot and proudly say, "Yes, I am an Eagle Scout. This knot patch represents that I became an Eagle Scout as a youth. Boy Scouts wear the Eagle badge and adults wear the Eagle knot." In three easy sentences, I just informed the outsider how to tell which Scouters they see in uniform are Eagle Scouts by pointing out my little red, white, and blue knot. Quick, simple, informative, and it jives with the current insignia guide. No change needed! Yours in Scouting, Chazz Lees

I've been away for awhile and am back now. Thanks for all your posts and thoughts. Eagle92, my apologies. I meant to send you a message when I first posted this question, but forgot to do so when I got too sleepy. It's nice to see that many units do not stop Scouting when school ends. As Beavah wrote, the summer is a perfect time for Scouting because the Scouts do not have the distraction of school. Yesterday I went to the mall to buy a few things. I saw two groups of my Scouts there. I saw the first group of six middle school aged Scouts and said hi. When I asked what they were doing, they said that they were just hanging out. They were just walking around the mall. The second group was of four new high schoolers. They saw me first and said hi. We talked a bit. They asked me what I was doing and vice versa. One of them said they were bored and were trying to decide between going to the movies or hitting Dave and Busters, a restaurant/arcade establishment. I wished them well and we parted ways. While I was driving home, I realized that it was Tuesday which is the day the troop usually meets during the school year. It saddened me to think that ten of my Scouts, which is about a fifth of the troop, were bored and hanging out when they probably could have been at a Scout meeting getting ready for summer camp and possibly playing a game like dodge ball. The Scouting for them this summer will be heading up to summer camp this Sunday. Once they return next Saturday, they will not do another Scouting thing as a unit until sometime in September. A few Scouts are going to the jamboree and a few others are going to Philmont. Those two groups will not be attending summer camp. There is a small group of Scouts not going anywhere with the troop this summer. Unlike the other Scouters in my troop, I see what my troop is doing and think it is a problem. Patrol unit cohesion and bonding is not really happening and I think taking the summer off just kills it. However, I am not going to fight this one now. For the last few years I have worked to get the troop more boy led with less active adult direction (i.e. adults running the show.) It has been coming around since I got the Scoutmaster to take and complete Wood Badge. I am now focusing on the Troop Committee. I am trying to get them trained and functioning as the committee should so that it can hit the ground running come September. Thanks for letting me vent. Yours in Scouting, Chazz Lees

Moosetracker, I had a feeling that your son wrote his ticket the way he did for a reason. Too bad your husband has such a complex. He is too much of a dictator to be a mentor. Tell me, does your husband push himself to do better and do more than others in the troop, or is it just that way for your son as in "do as I say and not as I do?" I suggest your son go find another troop away from his father; otherwise, your husband will eventually suck the fun out of Scouting for your son. Chazz Lees

Eagle92 in another post made a comment with which I agree. He wrote, "On another note, what do you mean the troop is out for summer? Please tell me your troop is not a 9 month troop? Scouting is year round, and some of the best trips are over the summer." I was a Scout during the 80's and an active ASM during and after college right up until I joined the Marines. After that I moved a few states away. I did keep my registration with the troop and showed up for special events when I could travel. My troop met year round and it was a blast. The atmosphere was pretty relaxed during the summer meetings in that there were no uniforms, the Scout Skills training was shortened, and the game lengthened. Plus, Eagles returned from college and helped out like Eagles should. Few "aged out" completely. Most became ASM's. In addition to summer camp, we usually did another trip. I recall a few were canoe trips. Always had a good turnout for meetings and events during the summer. Fast forward to today. I am still registered with my original troop from my hometown as an ASM. I am also registered with my nephews' troop in the town where I live as a Committee Member. Last year, I became a Unit Commissioner and was assigned to five units: two packs, two troops, and one crew. (I am also an Assistant Troop Leader with my Troop Leader wife for my daughter's Girl Scout troop. What can I say? I love Scouting.) It kills me inside that one of my packs, which is huge, is the most active of my units during the summer months, and they are only doing what is necessary for the Summertime pins! The two troops, the one crew, and my local troop all take the summer off with the exception that the troops do one week of summer camp. Apparently, this is the way it has been done for many, many years. I have inquired about summertime meetings and events with both Scouts/Venturers and Scouters/Advisors. The youth are split about 50/50 on meeting during the summer. The adults are dead flat against it. I got all types of excuses from the adults from "everyone is on vacation" to "the kids need a break." Really? Come on! I called them out on their excuses. You can't tell me that every Scout goes on vacation for the entire summer so that no one is around for meetings. And while I agree that kids need a break, the break is from school and not from having an adventure with Scouts. One Committee Member stood out. He looked me in the eye and said, "I just do not want to do Scouts during the summer." I thanked him for his honesty. So much for boy-led. I am discovering it is more like adult-manipulated. Is this happening in your area too? Do troop, crews,and ships take the summer off? Do any have year long units? How do the units that meet only during the school year compare to those units who meet year long? Do they have retention issues? Is there are difference in FOS contributions? Do year long units do more fundraising? Do charter organizations care how often their units meet? Is your district or council trying to change the school year units into full year units or are they just going with the flow? Has anyone been successful in transforming a school year unit into a full year unit? If so, what did you do? YiS, Chazz Lees

jhankins, I agree with you about everything except the semantics part. I took Wood Badge in 1992 and again in 2008. During both courses, my ticket counselors stressed to me to be very detailed, specific, and clear about what I planned to do for each ticket item. I'm not sure why the son picked just the shed to clean and inventory, but he must have had his reason to write the ticket the way did. Perhaps he was annoyed that the Quartermaster was not doing the Quartermaster's job and decided not to do it for him. Perhaps he focused only on the shed because it had been a problem during many different youth administrations and he saw a project that could help both the troop and the pack. Perhaps he was jealous that his father appears to favor the quartermaster. Only the son knows. Whatever his reason, the ticket was approved, although, I think by the course director instead of the ticket counselor. In any case, the ticket was approved by someone of authority on the Wood Badge staff as it was written. It should not be questions after that. YiS, Chazz Lees