Abel Magwitch

We agree to disagree? For me, yes. Good day SP.

And a two thumbs up to my fellow Scouter, Basementdweller. His truth is mine as well. We share many of the same situations in our respective councils. What matters most is what goes on at the unit level. Kudos to all who work in the trenches.

I would indeed like to see the thread back. What has happened and what is now coming to light is in fact a very uncomfortable reality. The issue has found its way to the open media and the BSA finds itself in the spot light. It's goes without saying that the BSA decided to make its bed a while back and if now finding it hard to sleep in it. For my comrade SP, yes evil people hurt kids. But at the same time, people who were at the helm in the BSA allegedly decided to cover things up. For many, that was the BSA being an accessory to the crime. I am willing to surmise that the decisions made

Oh come now SP, you do know the definition of it don't you? I was only following orders.

SP writes Abel Magwitch wants to make this issue the problem of BSA and Scouting. That's an easy and futile way to ignore a tough problem that has EVIL PEOPLE as the culprits, not Scouting The issue deals with corporate BSA; the paid managers of the corporation. If the allegations are found to be true, then shame on those managing the corporation for making these cowardly decisions, some of which have directly hurt youth as the BSA found out in the Oregon case. I wonder if the Nuremburg excuse I mean defense will be brought into play by some corporate scouters should they find

...I suggest that if the district volunteers were really up to doing their job THERE WOULD BE NO NEED TO EMPLOY A DISTRICT EXECUTIVE!... in order to have district volunteers, you have to have units in the district to serve. that's where a district finds its officers - within the units. Allegedly my district currently has 44 units. personally, I know of over 35 traditional units that have died out in the past 25 years. currently I am only aware of 8 traditional units in my district. This includes packs and troops.

What district committee meetings? Don't have them. What roundtables? Don't have them. Perhaps in Seattle, things are done correctly. Perhaps the Seattle council is strong and has an adequate volunteer staff. But that is not the case in other areas of the country.

Isn't it time for corporate BSA to come clean so it can re-establish its moral integrity instead of working hard to cover things up?

My council is also big on school packs. easy to start, constant influx of new members at the beginning of the school year. In fact, in many school packs, the DE is the Cub master. All the while, many traditional units have been allowed to die.

...So for me it begs the question DO we even need councils or professional scouting anymore with their total mismanagement of all the council resources?... My council has just announced a reorganization of its districts. We will be going from 8 to 3. But here is the kicker - there will be no downsizing of the professional staff. In fact more professionals will be hired. The new districts will have multiple DE's. The city district will have 4 - 5 DE's. The other two 2 - 3. Council has effectively gotten rid of the volunteer district leaders of 5 districts while adding additional pros to th

^^^ Now that's funny! ^^^

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2012/01/16/hispanic-cub-scout-pack-comes-columbia/ Girls are allowed to be Cub Scouts. It seems to depend on the council and the national Hispanic Initiative of the BSA.

> 14 year old CITs are effectively Merit Badge Counselors in many Scout Camps. And I'm talking about CITs that don't know the skills they are teaching SP, you failed to answer the question on why there is an 18 year old requirement to be a merit badge counselor? Do you know? If you do, I would love to hear the answer. If not will you attempt to find out why this rule was adopted or will you simply pick and choose yourself how the rules will be adhered to or not? Do you realize that according to BSA advancement policy that no council, district, unit or individual has the auth

...Every Scouting position has a lengthy list of responsibilities, more than anyone can do. For myself I've decided that I will pick and choose from among that list the things I am either good at doing, that particularly need to be done or that I would like to do... I guess I should have read your post on the other thread first. You have answered my question.

So it's ok to cherry pick and call it leadership.

commander, command, orders? Those are military terms. Hey SP, I left you some questions on the LFL post. And here FYI,the 2010 annual report for your records. Hope to see the 2011 report soon. http://www.seattlebsa.org/media/10annrpt.pdf

Johnponz in another post feels that the rules should be followed. Others disagreed. So I offer this little discourse. Rules, shmules. Why do we need them? What purpose do they serve? Why is there an 18 year old requirement to be a merit badge counselor? Why cant kids be merit badge counselors? Why do we have to have an election to seat our district committee? Why cant the district director simply appoint the district chairman? Rules I tell ya, do we need them? Should we break them out of convenience? Let's hire 16 year olds at summer camp. Pay them a tiny stipend and

Johnponz nails it.

It sounds like what BP is saying is that it really isn't a program at all but just an imaginary numbers game to add to the overall membership in order to generate funds. BP, You aren't implying that this LFL is nothing more than a phantom? Say it isn't so. (by the way BP, I am very fimiliar with the LFL program in my neck of the woods. I am just surprised that SP doesn't know much about the program in his council - a program that made up almost half of his council's overall membership just a few years ago. SP's council LFL counts were far higher than any individual traditional progr

Eagle, I agree, the LFL program if administered could be a good program. But its deviance from BSA's stringent moral policies... well you know my stance on that one. And SeattlePioneer, I challenge you to get your councils most recent annual report. Its supposed to be public record yours for the asking at the Scout office. One way to check the health of your council is by its annual membership figures. Your District chair should have a copy as they usually attend the annual council business meeting and or dinner. Better yet, your COR should have a copy if he attends the annual business m

SeattlePioneer, Would you have a copy of your 2011 annual report? I would love to know how many Cubs, Boy Scouts, LFL/Explorers were reported for the year. Thanks

Hi Eagle, So now I know what you have been told. So... As a former pro, what do you know.

I am in agreement with BSA24 that it is the volunteers who deliver the program and not the pros with this exception - summer camp. Summer camp is a program that is delivered by paid folks. The program which consists of maintaining the camp, hiring an adequate and trained staff, ensuring that the camp is prepared with the necessary supplies to implement the program falls on the SE and his employees. And in my council, the pros have failed miserably. The Scouts do not get the program promised to them by the council for the fee they pay. Lack of staff, lack of supplies, a camp in disrepair,

Letters to Scouting Magazine - Saluting in uniform In addition to the official Class A Scout uniform, the BSA also has a Class B uniformofficial Scout pants or shorts with a troop or camp T-shirt. My question regards protocol during flag ceremonies: Should a Scout use the Scout salute while in a Class B uniform or place his right hand over his heart? Christopher Dillon Assistant Scoutmaster, Troop 24 Bloomsburg, Pa. The response from Scouting Magazine: First, when referring to uniforms, Class A and Class B are military terms that are not used in the BSA. The correct Sco

NJCubScouter, Exploring by itself has seen a 35% decline. The classroom portion has seen a 68% decline bringing the overall LFL program down by 65%. So the answer is both. The membership data can be accessed on the national website under Annual Reports. You can access national annual reports from 1997 2011. The classroom based programs showed the heaviest declines but Exploring also showed some substantial declines as well. The data with its gains and losses is on each annual report. All one has to do is take the time to review it. Nowhere has the membership shown such dramatic g