SiouxRanger

All of this is now only known to me this moment. Unbelievable.

I heard the story of the Unknown Scout from a WD Boyce descendant who heard it from Boyce. It pretty much confirmed the romanticized version.: Lost in London, fog, Unknown Scout giving directions, tip refused.

Have you tried the Library of Congress? Was it copyrighted?

Your summary of "cultural norms differences" is what I thought it might be. Thank you. It comports with my sense of how those matters were treated then. And I wonder to what degree these matters today are still treated that way-or subject to those same societal pressures.. Even in these more "enlightened" times, look at the emotional energy expended by abuse survivors to overcome their own emotional inertia to step forward to be heard, and the push back from the alleged perpetrator, and the glare of the spotlight created by media exposure of their claim. I would surmise that not all "authority groups" have advanced at the same pace in their growing awareness of and response to such claims. Parents perhaps lag way behind, whereas law enforcement, social workers/counselors, legislatures, and the judiciary are further along in their enlightenment. It is a halting, uneven, and messy process.

If it would not be too much trouble, and I suspect this has been discussed at length long before my time here, could someone itemize the basic elements of the "cultural norms differences" back when as compared to now? A paragraph or two just setting out the basics-what is allegedly different now compared to then?.

That's my unwritten thought. Thanks for giving it expression. "Grooming" just sounds too benign.

I have read the 1965 book The Codebreakers by David Kahn-perhaps one of the finest pieces of work I have ever read (notwithstanding my library of Winston Churchill and Prescott's Conquest of Mexico and Conquest of Peru). Cutting off at 1965, Kahn's book is miles behind current technology. There is an update, I believe. (Never thought of reading it until this moment, my interest being WWII.) I can only assume the technology is out there to detect hidden surveillance cameras, but that camp staffs now are placed in this position of monitoring and the time involved. Perhaps we are at the point that 18 to 20 year olds, who are not only in the midst of grappling with their own emotional transition into adulthood, and all the emotional awkwardness that involves, but are also now burdened with monitoring and supervising adults 10, 20 or 30 years their senior.

Just to chime in on the side of safety and common sense.. I have studied "swiftwater rescue" techniques (in preparation for a raft trip on the Colorado). On a scale of 1 to 10, a lake (still water) is a 2 and floodwaters are a 27. Virtually NO amount of swimming strength, skill, strength, or experience will save you if caught in the current. And if then caught I a "strainer," a downed tree, chain link fence, mail box post, anything, you will become entangled there and you are doomed. A great outcome, and most likely, they would not have attempted rescue had conditions caused them pause, but this is not something that should be encouraged. All in all, everyone was lucky.

Good observation. A process: decide to act on predatory impulses; take steps to identify likely vulnerable youth; initiate precursor grooming activities looking benign to casual observers; identify malleable youth; intensify grooming activities; identify camping or other opportunities to follow through with abusive activities; engage in abusive activities as they opportunistically arise; engage in cover-up activities (as needed). And there may many other steps and sub-steps. Not my field but just trying to stimulate discussion. The point of this exercise is to identify steps and identify the types of behavior associated therewith, so that predators can be identified prior to actual abuse.

Forum shopping is a discussion topic in elementary civil procedure in law schools. Not promoting or discouraging it, explaining what it is.

I have to agree. A predator decides to prey, and then engages in behavior to accomplish that goal targeting victim(s). I am not sure the word "grooming" fully connotes the insidious nature of the process/goal. It sounds too benign to me. Maybe a new word is needed. But clearly, a predator sets a course toward abuse, and then grooms. (Perhaps another element of YPT training-grooming techniques to be aware of-perhaps becoming alert to pre-abuse activities will prevent actual abuse.)

Why is this called the "Churchill" Project? Does anyone know?

At one time, and perhaps to this day, the BSA publication, "Standards Of Membership And Leadership" was a publication restricted to distribution to professional (senior?) staff only. So, I ask, why would that be? And, does anyone have a copy they can post? (And, perhaps the provisions in that publication bear on the issue of BSA's alleged negligence in dealing with sex abuse claims.)

I had originally typed" impracticable and impossible," but that seemed wordy, so I dropped impracticable. Impracticable would have been the better choice. As camp buildings are scattered and accessed at all hours of the day or night, and a sweep is only good for the moment it is done, I was envisioning a Morning sweep, noon sweep, an after dinner sweep, and a lights out sweep. And that's convenient. I always wear a metal detector, so I will see you coming. (And thanks for the info. Probably not all hidden cameras emit RF if not broadcasting images in real time but merely storing data on a chip for later retrieval. Can THEY be detected?)

Well, yes, in a fashion. The books keep keeping getting smaller, length and width, but thicker. The print shrinks and getting hard to read.

I think with the cameras situation, it is another item to add to the list of items to be aware of. Electronic sweeping and such are virtually impossible to do effectively at a price anyone is willing to pay. I'll never look at a towel dispenser the same ever again. And, I'll do a quick look around in restrooms and showers. I don't know anything about the technology, but a rudimentary course is going to be necessary. It is sad the damage that a few bad actors do. My guess is that packages over 13 ounces have to be mailed at the Post Office, if not metering the postage, courtesy of the Unabomber. And the TSA... Eternal vigilance...

And what, we shun the apostates? Good luck.

Does anyone have any insight into the likely method and manner of a claimant's "testimony" in the claim evaluation process? A more detailed questionnaire than the proof of claim questionnaire, a narrative description (that is, a letter), phone interview, zoom (or equivalent) interview, or open administrative hearing with testimony in person? I am assuming that claimants will not be providing "testimony" of any sort in the bankruptcy proceeding proper but only as part of the settlement fund claim evaluation process. Perhaps I am wrong. Last I checked, Perry Mason is defunct, and with 85,000 claims, I cannot see a day's hearing on each claim-that's 232 years if only one hearing officer. Even with 100 hearing officers, that 2.32 years, even if working weekends. Unmanageable and incredibly expensive. I would anticipate a much more perfunctory evaluation due to the sheer volume of claims. To the abuse survivors, this is understandably a big issue.

Lawyers really do not like their clients, standing in opposition to one another, discussing the issues of a pending case without legal counsel present. Too much chance of making an admission against interest, or agreeing to a concession without an adequate concession by the other side, or simply mucking up the case by all manner of ambiguous or vague statements or "agreements" that come back to haunt them. Even in the presence of agreements that the discussions are non-admissible, there remains the chance of disclosing strategies or the measure of one's will to contest the case (the point at which a party will simply give up, or make big concessions).

Curious. I do not understand the significance of this. Do we know if those meeting at the PTC are non-lawyer representatives of CO's, or legal representatives of the CO's? And, are National representatives also meeting with those CO representatives?

Thanks, ThenNow. I think you are very realistic. I, too, hope for the things you do.

The final result of National' bankruptcy. Just wondering what survivors would consider a "good result." (Considering the inherent infirmity of the legal system to undo the damage that has been done.) I'm not looking for a dollar amount-that will be whatever it ends up being.

"Gravity" is a natural law. Expound heartily to the contrary, yet the "Apple still falls." Stephen J. Gould. I absolutely and thoroughly reject your analysis. Good luck with Scouting.

Perhaps I misjudge, are you advocating going to war with snot-nosed cub scouts and their moms? In my Troop I satisfy myself that the scouts have their shirts tucked in.

So, some clarification seems to be needed (and particularly to confused mrjohns2). I heard somewhere, many years ago, that Boy Scouting was the only youth program that gave awards to adults. (I do not know if this is true or not, but it is irrelevant to this discussion.) (But that comment does target BSA as having an adult "advancement" element. Beginning to sound like a Mary Kay meeting.) It got me thinking, should I be accepting awards only for those for which I was competing (or competitively awarded), or also awards bestowed by a group for whatever reason suited it? "Do a Good Turn Daily," "Cheerful Service.," and such, I take those to heart. I know several scouters who wore as many as 27 knots, each trying to out-compete the other. And I ask, "Where is the benefit to youth if knots are earned for the purposes of a peacock's display?" As a "self-starter" I need no encouragement, support, pats-on-the-back, and such, to work diligently and tirelessly to advance my Scouting tasks. Nobody need tell me if I "did well." I know my shortcomings far too well enough. So, I resolved only to accept awards which were competitively awarded-mostly. I did accept the District Award of Merit, and many years later, Silver Beaver. But I wear only my Eagle knot. And now that I contemplate the Eagle Scouts that have awarded me a Mentor Pin, I need to wear at least one (each can think it is their pin, however brothers awarded me each's pin at a recent Eagle Court of Honor, so now I shall wear two). Those that know me, know what I have contributed and those that don't-it matters not. I am pretty reserved. It is not about me.