CalicoPenn

I know what you''re trying to get to, and its a good exercise to really get people to think about he candidates but...

The only qualifications that count are the ones spelled out in the Constitution of the United States of America - and there are only three of them:

1) Be a Natural Born citizen (or a Citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution)

2) Be 35 years of age or older

3) Be a resident for at least 14 years.

Based on this, everyone now running is qualified to run for the office of President of the United States.

Now experience is another matter.

Calico

No voting - the BSA isn''t a Frat House. Do not have the PLC do any voting on this - they shouldn''t even be discussing this. It''s apparent that the SPL is already aware of the transfer request, and since the new Tenderfoot knows, maybe the whole Troop knows. That''s all they need to know - that two Scouts from the other Troop are thinking about transfering.

You''ve already heard from the two Scouts who will be the most affected. The Proud New Tenderfoot who suffered in the old Troop at the hands of the two applicants, and the SPL who remembers them as being trouble and likely isn''t looking forward to having to deal with them again.

You could allow them to join on a probationary status letting them know you will be monitoring their behavior very closely - but that means losing your new Tenderfoot unless you can convince him you''ll be keeping a sharp eye on the kids. Frankly, I think this option is too much trouble - why invite such a hassle on yourselves. You''re there to provide a great program to the members of the Troop - not to take on other Troop''s problems.

If it were me, I would consult with the COR, suggesting that the best course of action is to simply refuse to let these lads transfer based on their past behavior - if this seems to be the consensus of the Committee after a discussion (should the committee decide to have a discussion on this and not just leave it to the CC and SM). If s/he agrees, then the SM and CC should call the parents and tell them the answer is no. Now the part where you need to show some real strength. Just say no - no explanation needed. If the parent''s push, say simply that you don''t think their boys would be a good fit with the current members of the Troop. That''s it - the sum total of the explanation. Do NOT bring up their past reputations, do NOT bring up their bullying, do NOT bring up Dad''s turning a blind eye. Do NOT state at any time "It''s been decided" - that makes it seem as if a vote was taken. Just simply state, over and over and over again if need be, that "We don''t believe the boys will be a good fit with the other members of the Troop". It will be hard because they will likely ask Why and Who over and over again, but hang tough and keep repeating "We don''t believe the boys will be a good fit with the other members of the Troop". And when the Troop members ask what happened, the answer is "They decided not to join after all". That''s it - no other answer.

CalicoPenn

See, I told you I was to lazy, errr, too lazy, to proofread my posts.

OGE - Touche, I suppose though I don''t know many people who have a just a catholic education and not a Catholic education that can recite the Ave Maria in English, let alone Latin!

Calico

I''ve noticed many of my posts lately have had typos - and that I''m probably not using hyphens appropriately either. I own up to these and plead sheer laziness. I''m just to lazy to proofread my posts before I hit the Submit Your Message button, though I am trying to do so now as much as possible. I also noticed the numbers of "double" apostrophes appearing in my post - and like Scoutldr, they don''t appear to be my doing. Somewhere along the line, there must be an automatic correction command somewhere that tells the forum to correct an apostrophe to a quote - at least that''s my guess.

OGE: It''s not in red but - I gotta tell you should be I''ve got to tell you and catholic should be Catholic. Not to be mean or picky or anything, but the opportunity of seeing someone crawling under their desk, sucking their thumb and reciting the Ave Maria in Latin backwards is just too good to pass up (extra wide grin). Heck, you can even skip the sucking the thumb part!

Calico

Duplicate Post - oops

Calico(This message has been edited by CalicoPenn)

I gave TV up in 2001 - and haven''t missed it. When I stay in a hotel on a business trip, I find that I turn the thing on and flip through the channels, and flip, and flip, and flip then realize that I''ve just wasted 1/2 an hour of my life reaffirming that there is nothing worthwhile on TV and my choice to give it up was a good one - that''s when I either head out to a nice restaurant, or find some kind of live entertainment or order an in-room movie and pay the 10 bucks for it (going to a movie costs more than that these days anyway with high ticket prices and then the cost of popcorn and a drink).

I now watch dvd''s - I''ve now seen all of Akira Kurosawa''s movies, all of Hitchcock''s (those available on dvd and video), caught up on classics new and old, watched a bunch of schlock (there are times I crave a couple of weeks worth of 1950''s B-movie science fiction and horror)and am now working my way through as many Oscar winners as I can get my hands on. I also read whatever happens to catch my eye at the time - and usually 4 to 5 books at any given time.

I''ve learned to play the Hammered Dulcimer, the Appalachian Dulcimer, the Native American (style) Flute and am now trying to learn how to play the Scottish Bagpipes. I''ve learned glassblowing, have taken up sculpture and painting, and never miss my favorite show (since I don''t have one).

Of course, when people ask me if I''ve been watching the Ken Burn''s series, or what I think of some TV show, or ask me who I think is going to win American Idol or Dancing with the Stars and I tell them I don''t have TV, I either get the "what kind of whacko are you" stare or "I wish I could do that" statement.

That said, if they ever start to offer truly ala carte cable, where you don''t have to pay for basic cable (I don''t want to watch my local channels - thank you very much) or standard cable (I don''t want my MTV either) and let us pick and choose and pay for exactly the channels we want, then I might have it hooked up again - if I could figure out what channels I might like.

Calico

Recently, a group of scouts and leaders were delayed in coming out of a hike through a national forest in North Carolina when the trail they were following turned out not to be the trail they should have been on. Sounds like that perfect "Ah Hah" moment for a non-participating parent to strike and insist that this is why their precious child should have a cell phone. Except, the adults did have cell phones - and they didn''t work because the weren''t in range of a cell phone tower - and that''s as it should be in the woods.

Cell phones should stay home - or be turned over to a leader to hold during outings. At meetings, cell phones should be turned off during the meeting - the lad can turn it back on after the meeting to call mom to pick him up. Truth be told, it isn''t the lad that needs the cell phone in case something is "worrying him" - its the mother who has made the cell phone a virtual umbilical cord and can''t bear the thought of her son not being within a moments notice when something is worrying her.

I have a number of acquaintences who teach at the college level - the stories they tell of college students calling daddy about a grade they got on a test while class is in session simply astound me - one of my friends had a student call daddy about a test grade and then hand the phone to him (the teacher) so daddy could talk about the situation - good thing my friend is tenured cause that girl needed a new phone when it "accidently slipped out of his hands and he stepped on it."

One of the best reasons for being a Scout is to learn how to be an independent, thinking, self-sufficient adult. A cell phone tether to mommy doesn''t help this process.

Calico

OldGrayOwl,

To briefly get back to your question - what does the schedule for this 2-council outing look like? Most savvy councils/districts build in plenty of time for Patrols to enjoy the event AND perform their camp chores, including cooking. I would continue to use the Patrol Cooking method and get a copy of the schedule to show the parents that there is plenty of time in the schedule for the lads to cook, eat and clean-up built into the schedule so they won''t miss out on enjoying the event. If the Troop Committee is cooking and cleaning up for the boys, what are the boys going to do with that extra time? Nap in their tents? Play video games??

Calico

I''m of the opinion that Troop tents are the way to go - Eureka seems to be a popular brand among Scout Troops that go the Troop tent route.

I dare say that the Troop tent issue is related to the Uniform issue. We chat often in the forums about the wearing of uniforms and two consistent arguments in favor of requiring the uniforms is that they provide an identity and a unity of team.

Just as uniforms helps provide a sense of identity and unity, so too does a consistent camp set up. When you're at a camporee, which campsites stand out and seem to say "This is a Boy Scout Troop." I''ll bet most of us will say the unit with tents and camp equipment that are uniform throughout. I camp at a lot of state parks throughout the year. During the spring and fall months, I run into many Scout Troops taking advantage of the group sites, of if small enough, using two or three individual sites (most parks allow up to two tents on an individual site - if you only have 4 tents, most parks will allow you to set up on two adjacent individual sites of the park isn't busy). When I see a unit with tents that are the same, I know I'm looking at a group of Boy Scouts - even if they aren't wearing their uniforms. If I see a unit with many different tents, I start to wonder if I have to pack my stuff up in my car every day because this is some school group full of kids that have no discipline (sad to say but there are people who will steal your sleeping bags and pads from your tent in the middle of the day).

Let's also not forget that Boy Scouts is about providing opportunities to ALL boys - even, and especially, the ones whose parent(s) barely afforded a sleeping bag, let alone a tent.

Without troop tents - what is your quartermaster supposed to do? Here's how we solved the tent care issue. Most of our tents were "two" man tents (they could easily have fit three). All of the tents were numbered and a small stencil of the number was marked on the tent, fly, tent bag, stake bag and pole bag (if any). Before an outing, the Quartermaster checked over all of the tents, made sure they were in good condition and repair (checking tent loops, zippers, looking for rips, free of mildew) and all the parts were present (the checklist included a listing of what should be in the tent bag, including number of stakes and ropes). If the tents passed muster, they were checked out by number to a pair of Scouts. The Scouts were then responsible for making sure the tents were fully dried, all the parts were present, and any repair issues (bad zippers, tent loops, pole sleeves, LEAKS, broken or bent parts) were reported when they returned the tent back to the quartermaster. The tents weren't automatically loaded back into the storage closet or trailer - the Scouts took them home with them to dry if needed. If the tent came back without poles, stakes or bags, the Scouts were responsible for replacing those items (if you have Scout Accounts, the cost was deducted from those accounts, if not, they had to pony up the cash - which is pretty minimal). If the Scouts know they have to pay for part replacements, they'll be very careful about making sure when they take down that they have all the parts. If the tent is put away wet (improperly dried), then the next time the quartermaster checks the tent and mildew is present, the quartermaster looked up the records to see which Scouts checked out that tent last time and it was those Scouts responsibility to clean, reseal and dry that tent. (It's always a good idea to have a couple of extra tents on hand in case one of the tents is not usable on a trip). The only exception to the loss of parts rule (though never publicized) would be an emergency evacuation in the dead of night (most likely in a driving rainstorm no less) where it is not only possible but likely that a few stakes and a pole or two might be left behind in the confusion.

How do you pay for tents for the unit? Fundraising! The number one purpose for fundraising is not to provide money for Scout Accounts but to provide money to support the Troops programs - and buying equipment supports the programs. I believe that fundraising should be supporting the units equipment and program needs first and foremost. If those meets are fully met, use the "leftover" funds to pay for troop trips.

Calico(This message has been edited by CalicoPenn)

Gee, what else is this unit going to spring on you that you aren''t aware of? A requirement that you donate $250 to FOS in order for your son to be eligible to attend summer camp? A requirement that you sign up to be a merit badge counselor in order for your son to be eligible to earn merit badges?

I would have no problem with the $400 in popcorn sales versus $100 cash for dues IF there is a corresponding reduction in dues for lesser amounts of popcirn being sold. It appears that the Troop is giving Scouts the opportunity to earn their dues through the popcorn sales - and figuring 25% goes to the Unit (or at least towards Dues - I thought units get about 33% of the sales) then it makes sense that in order to pay a full years dues with popcorn sales, the Scout needs to sell $400 worth. BUT - if the Scout only sells $200 worth, will he get a $50 credit towards his dues? I think you need to ask this Troop this question. If they tell you that in order to get any credit for dues they must sell $400 worth and partial sales don''t count, I would run quickly to another troop.

I'd run to another troop anyway because of this $750 in order to go on the spring trip. Scouting is about offering opportunities to boys, not putting obstacles up that Scouts need to overcome. With all due respect to Anarchist, planned trips should NEVER be considered an award. Scouts have enough awards to earn - ranks, merit badges, etc. Trips are opportunities for Scouts to work on earning these awards, and for working as a team, and for showing leadership. It's one thing to throw together a spur of the moment canoe trip after a morning of service for those who helped with the service - it's quite another to make attending a planned trip contingent on selling a set amount of popcorn.

It is also inherently unfair as quotas for popcorn sales are not a true measure of how hard one works to reach that goal - not at the youth level. One lad may work their butt off going door to door, putting in hours of work and still fall short of the goal while another may have a parent who brings the form to work and reach the sales goal in one day without eeven getting off his tushie and turning off his Play Station 3. Is it fair to the lad who put in the effort to reach the goal and yet only sold $650 worth of popcorn that he doesn't get to go on the spring trip while his peer who did nothing and "sold" $750 worth of popcorn gets to go? You can use this argument in a discussion with the Scoutmaster. If this troop thinks this is reasonable, find another troop - one more in synch with the values of the Boy Scouts.

You mention that your boys seem to like this Troop - since it's plural, then we can safely assume that in order for your boys to attend this trip, your family will need to sell at least $1,500 in popcorn (assuming 2 boys). I'd have serious questions about this too. If you sell $1,200 worth of popcorn, which boy doesn't get to go? How will you choose? Or do none of them get to go? How happy with the Troop will they be if they learn they don't get to go on this awesome trip in the spring?

Calico(This message has been edited by CalicoPenn)

Chuck,

You''ve done a fine job of answering your own question:

"Just for perspective/disclosure, the boy has ADHD and the Mom may have used these activities as a way to help keep him engaged/focused during the summer months. It''''s not out of the bounds of reason, and if true, is actually commendable that they relied on Scouting to engage him in this manner."

As you yourself stated, its not out of bounds of reason that Mom may have used these activities as a way to keep the youngster angaged and focused and therefore that the lad has earned the awards.

Then, as you state, advancement is between a Scout and his Akela. You simply have to take Mom at her word.

Calico

I think the answer depends on the answer to another question - is the Merit Badge Sash a required part of the uniform, or is it an acceptable accessory. I do not recall ever reading or hearing that the Merit Badge Sash was required - only that it was an optional piece of the uniform that was acceptable to wear during a uniform inspection. To my recollection, you wouldn''t lose points if you failed to wear the sash during a uniform inspection.

If it isn''t required, why require it for the BOR. I like the idea that Scouts can wear the sash at the BOR as a touchstone of his past. I also like this idea for the additional formality it brings to the proceedings. The Merit Badge Sash, if worn, is to be worn only on formal occasions such as Courts of Honors. They aren''t meant for regular meeting wear and most troop level BOR''s are held on regular meeting nights. Considering the BOR to be a formal occasion isn''t a bad idea either. But it seems to me that requiring it just adds another thing the Scout and the BOR has to worry about and just provides another opportunity for our less than flexible adult bretheren to "flex their muscles" so to speak. Encourage? Yes - if they wear it Great!! But require it? I hope not.

As has been mentioned, the OA Sash shouldn''t be worn at the BOR. It is worn at OA Functions only. And it is never worn at the same time as the Merit Badge Sash (if I''m not mistaken, this is policy in the official insignia guide - only one sash may be worn at a time - and you can''t get around it by wearing one sash over the shoulder and one over the belt - still not allowed).

As for temporary insignia patches on the back, if I were to do so, the only ones I would put there are temporary insignia patches of awards that have been earned - not camporee or hiking trail patches. My preference would be for patches like Mile Swim (I know - it''s supposed to only go on a swim suit or vest but it''s still a great accomplishment and award so I say bend the rules on it), BSA Lifeguard, 50-Miler Award, Hornaday Award, Paul Bunyan Award. Gaudy - maybe - but at least these would be awards that were earned - not just patches that were handed out because someone slept in a tent.

Calico

"There should be a training award for this!"

Will it come with a nifty new knot? Maybe a sheepshank??

Calico

The White Stripes only wear the colors Red, White and Black while on band business. The black and white Philmont bull on the red jac shirt certainly fits in with the motif.

I thought Poly-Wools were clothes made from the silk spun by Poly-Wooly Bear Caterpillars. Heard these critters are great at predicting a mild summer too.

Calico

You don't need any big excuse, or any plan to make things equitable. Just call the District Popcorn Chair and tell him/her you've thought about it and have decided not to participate in this hare-brained scheme and that your Troop will continue to sell anywhere it likes. If this person starts to give you any lip about it, tell this person the decision is final and your next call is to the District Chairman to make it clear to him/her that you will not put up with any interference from the District Volunteers in your unit's fundraising.

Then go out and sell popcorn - and hit the subdivision where your real estate agent live since no one knocked on that door last year. The best motivation for the other units to go out and sell is to see you in the proper role as competitors (because you are - although on the cooperative level, a portion of the proceeds of the popcorn sales goes to the Council, a portion also goes to your unit - and thats the portion you're competing for). Let the other unit(s) whine and complain all they want - it won't get them anywhere unless your unit lets it get them somewhere, and by capitulating to this scheme, you're letting that unit(s) whining win out.

Good luck with your sales this year!

Calico

Gee, about those Fish Boils. Lot of hype for what was essentially a lazy Scandinavian bachelor's evening meal (I think the Scandinavian was a Swede if I remember my legends correctly - figures (said as a Swede)). Take a slab of whitefish, some potatoes, an onion or two, and some corn on the cob (if available) - dump it in a pot and put to boil - when the pot boils over and puts your fire out - dinner is served.

Kraut - I'm a big fan of Johnsonville myself - and not just their brats - I do love their Smoked Sausage with Cheddar (Beddar with Cheddar - though the Smoked Sausage with Swiss (filled with swiss cheese instead of cheddar cheese)which I've only found in the New Glarus area (they may be available elsewhere in Wisconsin but I've never seen them in the Chicago area)were pretty darn good too. But you live in Wisconsin! Home of Usingers, and Sheboygan Sausage Company, and Klement's!! It's a Bratwurst/Sausage Lovers paradise!

I camp at the annual rendezvous in Fort Atkinson in the spring - I always eat out the evening I set up - and always at the Black Hawk Tavern & Grille. I might just have to "sneak" out of camp one morning to have breakfast at the Eat-Mor. Don't be startled if some guy wearing pre-1840's courier-du-bois garb comes in and sets at the counter - it might just be harmless me.

Calico

If it were me, I would skip the White House and the Capitol Building (except for viewing the exteriors). Heavy security and interminable lines just won't sit well with active Scouts.

I would stick with the memorials. The Washington Monument, Jefferson Monument, Lincoln Memorial, FDR Monument, the Wall (Vietnam War Memorial), and the World War II Memorial. If time permits, visit the other war memorials in the mall.

I would visit the National Zoo, if just for a brief time to view the Pandas. How many times will your Scouts get to view live Pandas?

If I were to take them to any of the Smithosonian Museums, my first choice would be the Air and Space Museum, and second choice the Museum of the American Indian (next to Air & Space) and third choice would be the Museum of Natural History.

At this point I would "get out of Dodge" as it were and do some things in the area. The Great Falls National Park in Potomac offers hikes along the Potomac River and views of the Great Falls of the Potomac.

I'd visit the Patuxent Wildlife Research Center National Wildlife Refuge up the road from Greenbelt and visit the visitors center and hike their trails.

I'd only use a travel agent if I were renting cars, booking air travel or booking hotel rooms (yes - use a travel agent to book hotel rooms for groups - not online - you get a better guarantee and a live person to talk to if something gets screwed up). If you're driving and camping, I can't see a reason for a travel agent.

What I would likely do first, though; is gather some guidebooks and hand them out to the Scouts at a meeting with an assignment to choose places they would be interested in visiting by the next meeting. At that meeting, collect their ideas and collate them (look for duplicates (and multicates (3,4, etc))) and when collating, write down next to a place, the number of people that suggested it (for instance, you might have 4 Scouts say they would like to visit the Lincoln Memorial, 6 Scouts say the Washington Monument, 1 Scout say the Frederick Douglass National Historic Site)and present them to the PLC to winnow through - have them do some research on them to make some first choices and some fallback choices.

Calico

It sounds to me that the problem has nothing to do at all with any of the swimmers - the problem is the interpretation of the term floating. Too many instructors seem to believe that floating is an inactive activity - that it is like nothing more than an inanimate object (think fishing bobber) floating on the surface.

Whether drownproofing (face first float) or back floating - there is always some level of activity. In drownproofing, the floater has to lift their head up every 45 - 60 seconds or so to exhale any remaining air in their lungs and inhale fresh air.

In backfloating (even "restful" backfloating), as the floaters legs sink (and they will sink - every time - I don't care how fat your calves are - there are no expanded lungs in the legs), the floater will need to occasionally gently kick their legs to bring them back to the surface - probably about once every 45-60 seconds. It isn't lack of chest expansion, or lack of body fat that causes a body to sink - its the legs, which will naturally drop (because they don't have the surface area needed to create the surface tension needed to keep them afloat) unless artifically pulled back into place (thus the kicking) and drag the body down with them. Once the legs drop to a certain point (which is that point where gently kicking will no longer bring the legs to the surface) the body is going to follow unless the floater takes action to make sure the body doesn't sink. A person's torso is wide enough to generate all the surface tension it (the torso) needs to stay afloat - no matter what your body weight is.

Don't believe this? Next time you're in the water, try sinking head first without doing anything active (like kicking your legs). It can't be done - the only way you can get started head first into water from the surface is to surface dive. Then try to sink the other way - let your legs drop and feel the reaction. Then do a surface dive and if your comfortable holding your breath under water, stop about 6 feet down and rest without fighting your body's movements - you'll find that your legs will start to sink below your head and you will start sinking, feet first. The human body always - always - sinks feet first.

Kicking in the restful backfloat - and slight arm movements (which don't help in floating, they help in station keeping)is NOT the same as treading water. When a person is treading water, they are at a near verticle angle to the water horizon - and is continuously kicking and moving their arms to maintain that position, with head fully above water. If you're only kicking once every 45 to 60 seconds while treading water, then you aren't treading water, you're sinking.

By the way, arching the back isn't really helpful in most cases either - when you arch your back, you force your legs to drop - once your legs start to drop, you are going to sink, and in fact, they will start to sink faster than if the back isn't arched.

The technique LongHaul mentions to get a person comfortable and confident enough to float in deeper water is sound. Since a foot on the ground means the legs have already dropped to the deepest point it can get too and has "stopped" the body has nothing to follow. The sinking action has ended. The next step is to convince the student that he can do this in deeper water - and that the secret to keeping the legs up is to occasionally gently kick the legs to bring them back up to the surface. To clarify my statement on arching the back, bringing your arms above your head arches the upper back, where your shoulder blades are, slightly - just enough to bring the shoulder blades, which are normally protusions that help break the surface tension, more in line with the rest of the back - helping to maintain surface tension. This slight arching is ok. Most people try to really arch their back (upper and lower at a low point with the middle up). This is the kind of arching of the back that shouldn't be done.

Calico

The initial training is sufficient to get started. The biggest issue (imo) is that the training stops with the trained strip - and adults are, as a rule, reluctant to take additional training if they don't have too. Its not easy for an adult male to take instruction from someone younger - our ego's get in the way. It's not easy for an adult who has "attained the highest levels of training" (ie Woodbadge) to admit that s/he has more to learn (I know none of the people in this forum are like that but over the next few months, quietly observe which adults in Scouting you know are more open to additional training - either formal or informal - and which aren't - I have a hunch those that are more open to it have certifications for their jobs that require continuing education to remain certified - your firefighters, police officers, doctors, real estate agents, etc.).

We can't wait around until National or Council decides they should put some kind of formal continuing education component together - and I don't think they should do so anyway. We need to take that responsibility on for ourselves. For some people, that might mean signing up for wilderness education courses other organizations put together. But it doesn't have to be so complicated.

Most districts hold a camporee twice per year - while the Scouts are out and about doing their activities, what are all the leaders doing - some may be working stations but a lot just stay behind in camp. As part of a camporee, why not have a "Commissioner Camp" for the adult leaders with ongoing skills training taking place during those activity hours. It can be more than just a place to drop by for a cup of coffee, a chunk of cobbler and a chat about whats going on in the units, district and council. It can be as informal as learning techniques for teaching knots (and maybe learning a few new knots in the process) or as formal as having a scheduled hour or two to discuss a specific topic. It can be done on the cheap or you could bring in someone from the outside who might charge a nominal fee (how awesome would it be for someone to bring in a mobile climbing wall and then have them teach harnessing and belaying techniques - open to the adults only?). Maybe your camporee is at a place with a wide spot on a river or pond to do some canoe instruction. The possibilities are endless - if we take advatage of the opportunities presented.

Just some thoughts

Calico

Long Haul,

What if you don't know the Scout that Billy says did this? Maybe an older unknown Scout (17) to Billy's 13? If Tommy is a member of your unit and is known to be a prankster, I imagine most of us would pull him aside and ask what he was doing and tell him why it wasn't appropriate. If Billy doesn't know the Scout - I might very well be inclined to call the cops - this behavior is not appropriate.

Venture crew or not - if some guy the same age as the girls comes up to them in a food court and asks them out somewhere to hook up, it's not a crime. A 40 year old man doing the same - different story - I'm calling the cops. 16 year old local boy - I'm telling the kid to get lost. I'm calling the cops on some 40 year old guy approaching a male Scout in a food court asking the same question. But 16 year old local boy asking a 16 year old boy? No crime there (though rather bold and a bit stupid of the 16 year old asker).

As for hand signs - flip a police officer off and tell me how fast it takes for them to arrest you for disorderly conduct(the old catch-all for what is generally considered crimes against civility) and good luck with the free speech defense (I prefer the free speech argument but reality unfortunately gets in the way sometimes). Flashing hand signs in most high schools in the country is banned by law too (in most states that have locally elected school boards, those school boards are as much a law enacting body as is the local city government). It's done to try to prevent problems with gangs in schools.

When someone sitting to your left in a toilet stall manages to reach over and wave at you with their left hand you've got to be suspicious about their intentions. And you make the argument against Craig with your observation about how hard it would be to touch someone's foot with your own in a stall - imagine just how jointed Craigs leg must be for him to have managed, in a "wide stance with his pants around his ankles" to get his foot under the stall wall and into the officers stall. Unless those stalls are no wider than a standard toilet fixture, its very hard to do even without your pants at your ankles.

Craig would have been entrapped had the officer approached him out of the restroom and suggested a trip to the stalls (or even approached him while standing at a sink) - that's entrapment - that can be argued in court that the person never would have tried this if the officer hadn't suggested it first. The officer can sit on the toilet licking his lips and winking all he wants - as long as he doesn't say anything, or make first physical contact, or is performing an indecent act - it's not entrapment/inticement. It seems Craig knew exactly what he was doing, and has done it long enough to know exactly what to say when he was caught (it makes me wonder if he hasn't been caught before and learned a lesson from that experience).

Calico

1400 - I spent about a week and a half at Seboomook base - transfered from Matagamon Base when its Base Director and Base Operations Manager left towards the end of the season. (I was the Base Operations Manager at Matagamon). I also spent time in Howland doing OKPIK instruction (back when it was a National High Adventure Base program).

Calico

May I pose a hypothetical question concerning whether this was right or wrong?

You're driving a number of Scouts up to Summer Camp, a 3 or so hour trip. You stop at a rest station along the way to stretch your legs and use the restroom. One of your Scouts comes up to you and says some guy looked at him through the stall door, got into the stall next to him, tapped his foot, moved his foot over to touch the Scouts and waved his hand under the stall (all things Mr. Craig has been accused of doing), Are you going to tell the Scout that the guy did nothing wrong or are you going to call the police because this guy is a pervert?

Craig was not entrapped - there was no contact between Craig and this officer before Craig entered the restroom (The officer states he had been sitting in the stall for five minutes before Craig entered the restroom). The officer didn't entice Craig, or make any suggestions that they should meet in a restroom for illicit activities (its the location - a public restroom - that makes the activity illicit - it isn't illicit in your own bedroom). The officer was conducting undercover work in a restroom based on complaints by the traveling public. He was aware of what these actions by Craig were meant - these actions have been used for ages to indicate certain - you get the picture. The officer knew what the patterns were because they are common throughout the country (Craig has not been the only one ever arrested in a men's room for this - and this same pattern occurs in all the other states, and in Canada too - not just Minneapolis). The police conduct these stings precisely because of the very actions made by Craig.

Calico

I'm very concerned about this - very concerned indeed. Why, I buy Dihydrogen Monoxide from the store all the time and drink about 2 liters of it every day. I had no idea the stuff I was purchasing from France was so horribly dangerous.

Now I know what to blame for my hair falling out too - it must have been all that time spent swimming and showering with this stuff.

Heck, the Coca Cola on my desk isn't even safe anymore.

When will Congress do something about this scourge on our planet? Surely this is a much more important issue than the Iraq war!

I shudder to think what would happen if this stuff ever got into our water supply!

Calico (tfic).

I'm another Chicagoan who will exult in the delicacy of the Chicago Style Hot Dog. Most dog houses in Chicago uses the Vienna brand all beef "house dog" - Portillo's uses a specially seasoned Vienna brand dog for their restaurants. There is no finer dog in the US. Chicago style means mustard; pickle relish and/or a dill pickle spear; sliced or wedged tomato; diced onion, celery salt (can only be left off of Portillo's dogs - they're preseasoned just about perfectly) and optional sports peppers. NEVER ketchup - Chicago dogs don't need the sweetness of ketchup to give the dogs any taste - the rest of the condiments add to the flavor of the dog, ketchup overwhelms the dog and gives flavor to otherwise flavorless dogs (such as you find, in say a Nathan's).

Another sausage cooked Chicago style that can't can't be overlooked - the Maxwell Street Polish - a grilled, all-beef polish sausage best served on a french roll with grilled onions and mustard - sport peppers and sauerkraut acceptable options.

Of course, you can't go wrong with a Chicago-style Italian Beef. Kick it up a notch and have it served on garlic bread and topped with melted mozzarella cheese. Your cardiologists kids will thank you for putting them through an Ivy League school.

Some comments about Maine, where I went to college:

Stay away from their hot dogs - the first time I saw one of those glow in the dark abominations, I ended up inadvertently insulting the very nice cafeteria lady. Fortunately for me, the Dean of Students was with me and she grew up in the Chigaco area - she reminded the very nice cafeteria lady that she had the same reaction when she first saw these road flares on a bun.

Moxieman - sorry to tell you that I'm one of those who dislike Moxie. I did try it and then wondered (aloud btw) if I could be charged with illegally disposing of toxic waste if I poured the rest out in the sink. I think Moxie is an acquired taste and by the time I tasted it (early 20's), I was long past the point where I could acquire a taste for it. Chicago had a similar drink called Kayo that was an acquired taste too - it was some kind of chocolate soda - I never did acquire a taste for it either.

Can't agree more on Fiddlehead Ferns - fresh fiddleheads steamed and served with butter - fantastic. Always fresh (home blanched and frozen is acceptable) - never canned. Canned fiddleheads are like canned spinach - bleechhh.

Of course, I miss plucking Wild Maine Blueberries from the bushes along the trail and at the summit of a few select mountains the most about Maine. When I worked at MNHA, I dragged a couple of people up a mountain to help me pick fresh blueberries to serve the staff. Each staff member went home that summer with a jar of homemade Wild Maine Blueberry Jam that I cooked up in the kitchen.

Don't forget Potatoes - Maine is one of the largest Potato growing states - and they grow some awfully large potatoes too. My favorite variety is the Kennebec - great for making homemade fries or for baking. A local farmer used to bring the potatoes he couldn't sell to the commercial buyers because they weren't the right size to the local co-op to sell. Ever try to bake a 3 pound potato? (Yes - 3 pounds - I'm not kidding - and it wasn't the only one). I had that sucker in my woodstove for 2 hours before it was ready to eat. Most of the time, though, you just slice enough off the potato for making home fries and store the rest for the next day.

Is the McDonalds in Ellsworth still selling "McLobster Sandwiches" to unsuspecting bus tourists on their way to Acadia?

Calico