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Troop75Eagle

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Troop75Eagle last won the day on June 21

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About Troop75Eagle

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    Senior Member

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  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Tampa
  • Occupation
    Retired
  • Interests
    Scouting development and legacy, Scottish Rite Masonry, history, art
  • Biography
    Eagle Scout 1986

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  1. This is the reason this forum is good. Yo clear up disinformation
  2. Left? I was thinking back to WW1 when politicians and generals were moving people about. Lol, though I am a libertarian. Not only that, the word liberal is one I would gladly embrace but from the very specific meaning of classical liberalism as a product of the enlightenment. That is the basis our founders used and believed. It wasn’t til recently that ‘liberal and conservative became almost slurs. Those modern definitions are useless. But insofar as modern ideals go, fighting fanaticism, bigotry, ignorance are fundamentals along with strong separation of powers and separation of church and state. There are many other specific qualities of course but classical enlightenment and liberalism is a great position to frame a stable approach. At least I believe so.
  3. I guess I was thinking of the breakup by the church in DC and thought I’d read that had been the case again. If they are wearing Unit insignia, then that’s a good thing.
  4. It’s made infinitely worse by deploying units with no insignia and continued Unapologetic overtures to authoritarianism. I did riot police training in the guard when I was with an MP unit. Just training in a realistic fashion ;minus bricks, bags of urine, and Molotov cocktails) was bad enough. People got hurt and reason flew out the window. And this was all just with fellow soldiers. Things definitely get out of hand very quickly. How much more so with true anger and violence. The units rely on each other because there is NO ONE else between them and people would are so riled up that they’d like nothing better than to get their hands on an authority figure. In such situations, the police and guard are pushed to repay that currency in kind. Who benefits? Old men and fanatics playing chess with younger people.
  5. The purpose of these posts includes the opportunity to flesh out background problems in society as a whole as it might indirectly affect scouting, it’s mission, the need to determine an understanding of the parameters the traditional scouting program should take. people here enjoy a little sparring and weed out provocateurs and trolls to blow off steam in the changes that are taking place. Expanding understanding and the scope of change and having a forum to respond to it is important. The forum is a healthy place to do this and needed for the sake of its members who otherwise feel cut off from a meaningful place to air their sentiments. It is a constructive place along to a coffee shop where people talk. It’s not meant to be a policy referendum or convention. There are many threads to chose from and start. This makes an ideal formula for those wishing to add and comment to do so. Comments have tapered off recently but keeping the conversation open to any who wish to air grievances and discuss what they will. Nuanced terms like ‘few’ versus ‘many’ or new information can be insightful. That is the continuing hope of the forum though the desire and patience of members to continue will vary.
  6. I never said it was an excuse. It is an aggravating factor. Many things manipulate human reason and behavior ranging from inflamed passions, intoxicants, starvation, group rage, fear, etc. Even climate starts to make a difference, it’s a known observation that the more a place is hot and the more crowded it becomes, the more irritable and hostile people get. If humans were cyborgs or Vulcans we wouldn’t have these variations in behaviors. As it is, we recognize a wide range of behaviors for all sorts of situations and have many science, social science, history, art and philosophy to demonstrate the variations. the Black Death and fervor over the crusades saw religious hysteria, visions, persecutions. So call it what you want. Covid and it’s consequences are aggravating factors on the human psyche and behavior. Again, I never said it was an excuse, but human rationality and decision making are anything but separate from these realities.
  7. Covid is making things 100x worse. Job uncertainty, spending down savings, rent/mortgage/business collapse/ constant defcon 5 alerts and fb plenty of time to sit around frustrated soaking up social strife. I can’t even think of a good analogy except a furnace of a kitchen with nowhere to move but crowded with ill tempered people trying to work. politics was already appalling with its social strife, but Covid makes it intolerable.
  8. Basically, the answers have the same goal in mind. Socially, there are changes that are problematic but not insurmountable. In an example that has an interesting but not squarely applicable idea is what I discovered while in Kenya. I was really surprised when I was taking selfies with the local kids at a farming community. One teen girl came up behind me and flung hate arms round me to pose. It was later explained that this was their habit and those who went to the US had to be admonished not to do this. They said that in the local villages, each family looked out for their neighbors families including those without kids. Anyone suspected of causing trouble with kids, thievery or other crimes of a sinister nature could be driven out of not beaten to death (which wasn’t unheard of). Community punishment, civil and human rights aside, the idea was that they looked after each other and every persons home was an open welcome place for any and all the kids. Certainly on a tribal level this is possible. Farming communities are relatively small and increasingly in survival mode because of climate change there (again, a different topic). So it’s understandable they could know each other as indeed small town communities in the US often know one another. To be sure, they have their own hidden problems and I do not paint a rosy picture. the spirit and idea, however is a balance between knowing parents who are involved in a joint activity and spending time with kids. Civil rights and privacy here make that really complex. Kids being immersed in their alternative social circles in the virtual world double the problem because peers listen and commiserate with each other to the point that it’s hard for parents to compete or have access. We all know this. Thinking outside the box and rapport building among interested parties is a major step. It cuts both ways since a person with bad intentions can be an excellent con artist with a great reputation. Because the virtual world has really altered social dynamics, parents will have to think more outside the box. Parents spending time with parents isn’t the sole objective but communication among them regularly can be. It has often been the case that parents knew the neighborhood kids that came from troubled homes and guided their kids away from too much socialization with them. Right or wrong, fair or not, the parents were constantly aware of the dangers. That is the objective
  9. You are correct, but some sort of greater vigilance is required considering the scope and depth of what has occurred over time. That is, what is known about what occurred. As in most statistics, they always seem to be a fraction of what happens since embarrassment, fear, shame and pressure silence a lot of these crimes.
  10. I have two kids, now adults, that were gymnasts. They were not subject to Nassers pedophilic claws but they know others that were. Gymnast parents and kids know each other very well. The parents watch like hawks and take notice of oddballs with no kids in gymnastics but seem to relish taking photos of the kids. The parents watch social media because there are a lot of strangers who want to be ‘friends’ with the kids. Obviously, in Nasser's case, the system failed. He was good friends with some, went to parties and had trust. Some of the parents must have had willful blindness or were just fooled. There is likewise precedent and concern about high pressure sports and vindictive kids versus coaches. That is insidious and difficult. svouts may not have the added dynamics of gymnastics but parents can take a page or two from their experience. It’s evident that whatever form National and local councils take, trust must be rebuilt and safeguards constantly reviewed. Parents might do well to be sure they all know each other and be open to the possibility there is a renegade amongst them. It’s an appalling and depressing thought but it seems it’s warranted. If we are going to have diversity training, teaching kids the signs of abuse to their person and others needs to be taught along with encouragement that it’s not only ok, but a must to speak up in an appropriate way. To my way of thinking, this has become more important than diversity training since the consequence would be diverse victims. one could see how a system could be weaponized against scouts reporting on scouts or scouts against Adults but that is something that has to be accepted and carefully scrutinized. Having scouts look after each other on social media is a must along with adult review but that’s no easy task either. Considering the long long history of abuse over millennia, it’s transparent this is an ongoing obligation anywhere kids are involved. National has a long way to go to rebuild trust, councils are on notice and troop leadership cannot feel exempted. It’s an ongoing problem that is always under threat just as much as thieves will always be attracted to treasure.
  11. Please also Understand, I mean no pointed attacks towards anyone here in particular. As I have gotten older I see the disdain for change come out in me and dislike for social and cultural upheavals. I certainly know the importance of dignity usefulness of change. I suppose I rail into the winds but one has to offer rebutted to a cultural energy of constant change that has a lot of negatives. Perspective and measured steps can be useful. But everyone here exhibits this regularly.
  12. Then we’d best look to a couple more examples to be sure the nuance is well fleshed out. With regard to PETA: ...the animal rights organization feels “pet” is a derogatory term and suggested people should stop using it since it is not animal-friendly language. She stated, “A lot of people at home who have dogs or cats will call them ‘pets’ and refer to themselves as ‘owners,’ and this implies that the animals are a possession, like a car, for example, When you refer to animals, not as the living beings they are, but as an inanimate object, it can reflect our treatment on these animals.” “This isn’t the first time PETA suggests using a new word or phrase for it to be less animal-centric. PETA argued words and idioms that involve meat products are offending vegetarians and vegans. For example, instead of saying “flogging a dead horse” or “killing two birds with one stone,” the organization wants people to say “feeding a fed horse”, or “feeding two birds with one scone.” So livestock is next, then the word Animal because someone might use it in reference to savage behavior. Then, let’s look at a corollary to ‘master’ . We’d best tell the churches and families that the word ‘father’ is no longer acceptable because that too is an authority title, notwithstanding its acceptance across the epoch of time. Plus, those children’s who lost their fathers or have abusive fathers might be offended or embarrassed and thrown into deep depression when others use the word. we can’t risk it. Boss? Well, forget that. Boss man is certainly a throwback to slaves and chain gangs, and prisons. In fact, prisoner and convict are tools for oppression so they go out too. I don’t know if anyone who wants to be called prisoner or convict especially if it’s a tool of the oppressive system that puts people down in a judicial and police system that is supposedly so bad that it has to be overhauled. the examples are countless and the point is that anyone anywhere will find reasons to mangle meaning and words to make themselves feel better and speak for others whether they want it or not. It’s the idea of claiming the progress is based on the acceptance of a new word without accepting that ANY word can be made and used to sound ugly. Humans have this odd disconnect between thinking they can change human nature by changing words. Degenerate-lunatic-imbeciles-maniac-retarded-and so forth. Psychiatry changes it’s diagnostic manual to capture the evolving understanding of mental disorders. Each generation changes terms. If, we, outside of psychiatry, use any of the terms on an everyday basis directed at someone, there is no mistake behind the meaning and intent: mentally there is something very wrong with them. Context is certainly important and what makes English complicated. Certain 4 letter words can be used across the spectrum ranging from hate of a person to sex to admiration of a new idea and so forth. I suppose that scoutmaster has consistently meant, the leader of the group but let’s look at alternatives: bossman, Pontifex Maximus, father- scout, fürhrer (which just translates as leader), grand marshal, pasha, sultan, how about king scout (queen scout might be a slap at cross dressers), headman (long accepted term in certain tribes around the world, Shah, Rajah, I would say chief but we know that’s dead in the water in American politics. Maybe if we go to the more egalitarian model the communists used in WWI when they had units in France during the revolution of 1917. They had group elections on whether or not to fight. Officers were ignored. So if we do that, nobody is in charge because there is no respected hierarchy. You see, the second you use words like advisor and mentor they become applicable to adults. That’s authority and power tier one. Well, someone has to make decisions, arbitrate and ultimately be a decision maker and arbitrator. That means you have to give them some type of easily recognizable designation (presumably that fits into scouting tradition...tradition as a word seems to have become profane in PC culture equaling tyranny, bigotry and narrow mindedness but never mind that). once you’ve got the designations in place, Bingo! You’re right back to where you started. You’ve only swept away understanding and function of one set to start over again because of sensitivity or criticism of others. The relationship is what is attacked, the system is what is ridiculed, the uniforms, the symbols, the spirit all of it. The words are a convenience and passive aggressive. Are you seriously going to change your title as an American because of history and actions of others and the rest of the world mocks you as an American? Are you going to start saying, maybe I’ll be accepted if I call myself a North American so they’ll think I’m one of the good guys? scouts is being dismembered make no mistake. Piece by piece little by little sections get condemned and made into something different and it’s not alone. I certainly can’t stop it. But I don’t have to like it or accept it. It’s an ongoing transmogrified experiment in a Frankensteinian lab run by destructive people and duped lab assistants. But I’m a little biased and irked by the whole mess.
  13. Fashion is a poor example. Versace and Levi’s come and go because the public taste is fickle. You might as well try to predict costal sand bar formations. Its true that words no longer become acceptable: faggot is a piece of firewood, Queer is odd, gay is happy and niggardly apparently is no longer acceptable at all though it has never had and still has no association with anything but the meaning of stingy. It’s true that language is dynamic and ebbs and flows. Curiously, however, I’m suspicious who decides what words no longer are valid. I certainly wasn’t consulted about any changes and resent being told what is and isn’t a valid use of words and language. Writers in history we revere and respect use language that may be arcane in some cases but that hardly means a whitewash is needed. Too much of that is going on. We have traditions, such as the military with titles and ranks that mean something and that are recognized. We have elected officials and their titles. On a trip in Africa, one lady was aghast when I said “stewardess in the plane” in telling of our trip. I was asked what century I was from. For whatever reason, hyper sensitive people sit around thinking up ways to change words because someone, somewhere might not like the sound of it, might be offended or because the might think it sounds better. Worse still, some think up reasons to change words because others should be offended even if they aren’t. The trouble with all these changes is that in this day and age and in this country in particular, individuals outdo one another in speeding up the changes. He and she Now have subcategories all the way down to referring to human beings as ‘it’. No gender, no identity, only an expressed desire to be an ‘it’. I’m not starting a debate on the topic of transgender, but that subject reflects the hyper radicalization of identity politics and language evolution on a meteoric scale. Not everything ought to be subject to the fickle changes like fashion or, apparently, gender. Scoutmaster ought to be good enough without linguistic tinkerers going to town. We might not choose Gruppenführer for good reason. But scouts has traditions and names just like the military and elected offices. It’s ok to have some predictability.
  14. Embracing long established Scouting tradition, working one on one with individuals and groups to bring friendship and change and desiring social stability do not equal bigotry. Being called Narrow minded certainly smacks of that. Having the opinion that the BLM organization has become a type of malignancy that is metastasizing into something that is very unhealthy for ALL us not narrow minded or bigotry. An Organization might start with a just or worthy cause, but they can morph into something that delegitimizes itself based on actions, statements and patterns. In recent years, any statements of caution, concern, alarm or opposition to groups that have different ideas (just basic ideas) are met with hysterics and brands of bigotry being hurled by social groups. Any dissent is somehow an existential threat to their collective whole that cannot even be permitted to be voiced without swift and immediate opposition. Rabble rousing Groups can play that game for a while, but they gain no credibility and after a while, they are just laughed at and ignored. They torpedo the very people they claimed to help and thoroughly alienate the vast majority of citizens. They certainly do not set good examples for scouts except as an illustration of what not to do and how chaos is not the best guide. In this limited application, they do prove useful.
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