InquisitiveScouter

Grew up in Ga-Carolina Council....fond memories of a Summer Camp there....that was timbered and sold.

Yes, Commissioners are as scarce as hen's teeth.  After finishing my unit tenure, I plan to serve as a Commissioner.  

Totally agree on those role perspectives.

ParkMan,

Would you elaborate, please? "...end all the confusion about professionals trying to do volunteer roles."  You mean confusion on the volunteers' parts, or on the professionals' parts, or both?

And I am all for paying someone fairly.  But there aren't many Scouters in our council who see the value for those dollars...  This is what councils need to do...show the value they create, and then show appreciation for the value the volunteers create. When the Mom who makes $45K a year is asked for money, and her Cub Day camp has been cancelled two years in a row with no explanation, and the council camp has buildings which are unhealthy (mold) and should be condemned...it's a hard sell for her, too.

When they can convince me, they'll get more of my money.

And the DE's, IMO, are not being paid fairly...what's their turnover rate, again?  And our Registrar is a saint.  Without her, things would come to a grinding halt...  You can't pay a good council Registrar enough

4 minutes ago, SSScout said:

Oh, that is wonderful. 26 mile hiking around the deck of his ship.  The SS Leviathan, was it ?  Google is your friend:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Leviathan 

950 ft long, 100 feet beam.   Say, a rectangle 8oofeet long by 80 feet wide, equals 1760 feet into 26 miles..... 

78 times around that boat?  Sweet!

On 2/29/2020 at 3:37 PM, David CO said:

Let me guess.  Is her salary about $375,000 each year?  I might also guess it hasn't been determined that her salary is too high.  It would appear that Boy Scouting and Girls Scouting do have some things in common after all.

Last full salary I can find for their previous CEO was for 2016...$135K

2017 IRS 990 filing shows Loretta Graham with salary of $0, and a named interim CEO with $22.1K  Must have been brand new at that point, but it will be around the $135K ballpark, for sure.

In contrast, our SE pulled down $203.5K for 2017, which puts them in the top 6% of our area, according to census data.  I point this out at the end of FOS presentations, so people can have full facts when deciding what they want to do with their money.  Needless to say, I am PNG with professionals in our council.

All data is information required by IRS to be disclosed publicly.  You can find what your Execs make, if you want.  (I use Charity Navigator.)  Recommend you not read those documents on a full stomach 🤮 

Sweet

Spot on...

We challenge our patrols to camp on their own at least twice a year (and I mean different destinations, not just as patrols in the same camp).  (I'd prefer more.) Just last weekend, two patrols (out of five) went camping, at two different campgrounds, and had their own program.  Got down to around 20 degrees both nights.  (Thank the Good Lord we have enough Assistant SMs and registered adults who are willing to take this on.)  I went out for a brief visit on Saturday night to show support.

Scouts love camping on their own as a patrol.

I, too, have noticed, over the past 15 or so years, the move toward "gaggle-Scouting," which you have described to a tee.  Summer Camp is one of the worst offenders.  Program should be built toward patrols.  Heck, most camps don't even set up patrol sites any more.  20 tents in a big circle...one fire pit...yuck.

For us, patrol flags are out at every meeting, or we don't start.  Patrol yells at every meeting (they have fun with it).  Patrol instruction, patrol games, patrol gear, patrol menus, parol food shopping, camp by patrol, etc.  As you said...Patrols come together to make the Troop!

We do use the NSP construct, but do not split them up at the end of the year.  They stay together throughout the program.  I find Troop Guides work, but must be highly incentivized.  Like SPL/ASPLs, TG's get to eat with adults if they wish, and we will cook/wash their dishes to give them time to focus on spending time with the youngers teaching, guiding, mentoring.

Previously, Troop culture had new Scouts getting divided up after their first year.  We found that extremely disruptive, and asked the PLC to really think about the way we did things.  They chose to keep patrols together...no dividing them up without significant reasons and PLC approval.  It has really come together over the years...

Patrols can and do occasionally change their name, though.  I don't like it, but leave this up to them.  NSP picks their own identity after a few months experience.  It is their patrol, after all

@dkurtenbach

Did you mean "erosion" by putting restrictions on youth, like removing the ability of patrols to do their own outing without adult (now 2 registered) supervision?  Or something else??

Back in the day, we challenged Scouts to make First Class so they could go camping on their own.  Wow, what a motivator that was!  And an extreme confidence and leadership builder as well.

Love that slides can (and should, IMO) be made by Scouts.  Scouts who make their own slides tend to guard them more carefully.  If it gets dropped, everyone pretty much knows whose it is

"Handicraft slides made by youth may also be worn." G2A&I

One of my favorites is the Liberty Bell!  My first slide when I joined in the 70's 😎

@Cburkhardt,

Yes, BPSA looks interesting...I believe part of the problem is "stopping" the adventure at 21.  Why not Rover?

"Rank versus Proficiency In the BSA, the Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class through Eagle badges are referred to as “ranks.” In Baden-Powell’s program and traditional Scouting, these are referred to as “proficiency” badges—specifically “general proficiency” badges. The general proficiency badges show a Scout’s current proficiency across a known set of Scouting skills. The idea behind traditional Scouting is advancement through progressive training in Scoutcraft (i.e., Scouting skills). Merit badges in the BSA are the equivalent of “Special Proficiency” badges in traditional Scouting. Special proficiency badges represent specific Scoutcraft or public-service skills that a Scout can train in and learn—e.g., Camper, Pioneer, Map Maker, First Aid, etc. “Rank,” then, in traditional Scouting refers to the position of responsibility of the Scout, such as Patrol Leader, Assistant Patrol Leader, Rover Mate, etc. These positions are appointed by the Scoutmaster or Rover Scout Leader to promote patrol, or small unit, efficiency—not to be Scoutelected roles at taking turns in learning leadership. In Baden-Powell’s program and traditional Scouting, the general proficiency badges (Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class) represent a Scout’s current proficiency. Unlike the BSA program, Scouts must be able to re-pass the requirements for each of these general proficiency badges in order to continue to wear them. Re-passing or re-testing is an important distinction in traditional Scouting, focusing on keeping the Scouts current in their skills and abilities. It also lends itself to the theme of being prepared for service, whether in the patrol or in the community. Venturing versus Rovering The BSA Venturing program and the BPSA Rover program are both co-ed, but have different age limits and different focuses for their programs. BSA’s Venturing program is focused more around high-adventure activities and only allows members through age 20, while BPSA’s traditional Rovering program is more focused on citizenship and community service and has no upper limit for membership. 95 Scouting for Everyone Scouts can be members of the BPSA starting with the Otters program at age 5 as opposed to the BSA’s Tigers which start at age 6. The upper age limit for Scouts in the BSA is 20 through the Venturing program where the BPSA Rovers have no upper age limit. The BPSA is open to males and females in any of the program divisions, where the BSA only allows female members in its Venturing program, which is only for ages 14 through 20, or as leaders (Scouters). The BPSA believes Scouting should be available to everyone, youth and adult, male and female. Membership for both youth and adults is not conditional based on religious beliefs (or lack thereof), sexual orientation, or gender identification."

If the BSA brand gets much more tarnished, you may see more of the above.  Adapt or die...

@qwazse,

errrrr...none of the above.  We had a family celebration.  Will recognize the achievement at Crew end-of-year picnic.  We picked up her certificate and purchased the medal at the council office for those occasions.  I asked her if she would permit me to send a pic and note to the local press.  She declined...

We've been having some negative experiences here in our council...part of the reason she does not wish to push on to Eagle.  Dear daughter is a Star Scout now, and will finish Life shortly.  I am encouraging (and tried bribing) as much as I can.

RichardB,

Concur to a point.  This is a unit/crew leader responsibility.  And I have already called both our summer camp (as unit leader), and our high adventure base (as crew leader), and gotten these assurances in writing...

Because I was calm and thinking about the future, and our parents' reactions to current events...

We have already paid in full for high adventure, and our summer camp fees are due at the end of the month to qualify for full discount.  Parents are making financial commitments, some over $2K, and want some assurance before they lay out cash.

And no one said anything about assuming or patronized them with hand washing instructions.  Are you projecting?

Until they change the uniform officially, and since you can choose your own slide, I was thinking of wearing this one:

https://baden-powell-service-assoc-quartermasters.myshopify.com/products/bpsa-us-woggle

@Cburkhardt

Venturing is dying in our council.  Targeted age group not really interested in the program.  Council has not, in my four years living here, ever devoted attention to their program.  The were even relegated off to their own district.  Crews are pretty much independent.  Each crew in our council focuses on a specific flavor: High Adventure; Shooting Sports: Kayaking, etc.

To make life easier for those Scouts who wanted to be solely involved in OA, our council created an OA Crew to cover the requirement to be a registered member of BSA.  I find this distasteful, as an Arrowman's first duty is to his unit.  This seemed a way to perpetuate the self-licking OA ice cream cone.

My daughter has been in a Venturing crew here since her 14th b-day, and has just earned her Summit Award at the end of last year.  She is the only member of her crew pursuing advancement.  Our council processes maybe two Summits per year.  My daughter was working on her Ranger Award, but has lost interest.  I know of no Venturers who have pursued Ranger, Quest, Trust, or Nova/Supernovas.  My dear daughter is burned out...there are the same four people always planning the outings and being the crew officers...other hangers-on just come for the trips.  She will most likely not continue with the crew after high school graduation this year.

Most older Venturers...16+...once they get their licenses and a tight group of friends, don't wish to deal with adults in what they see as a burdensome program.  They go out on their own.  Most aren't interested in program planning and leader development.  They just want to show up and have fun.

Call the council for your summer camp (or the high adventure base) and get an email (aka "in writing") that fees will be reimbursed if they are closed by governing health agencies.  You may also ask about cases where you or your community is under quarantine, but the camp (which is hours away) is still open.

Most councils do have some sort of event insurance that covers this.

If a parent pays for camp, and then decides on their own not to send the Scout, then they'll probably get no fees returned. Your mileage WILL vary.

I'll bet the travel insurance industry is booming right now... 

Call the council to ask if they will refund if governing health agencies impose community or individual restrictions.  Ask for an email confirmation.

Ugh...

Our council, weekend camping, $29 for a site with capacity of 12 ($2.42 per head minimum, if used fully.  Only one in the entire camp, so if it isn't available, you are paying more.), to $89 for capacity of 42 ($2.12 per head min if fully used).  Pit latrines, running water at a distance from campsite, free split firewood, limited trails, major paved pubic road smack through the middle of camp.  Unit responsible for program.  If you want to use any program sites at camp, you pay extra.  Lots of units, associated Scout bedlam, check-in/check-out (not too much of a hassle)

A stone's throw across the creek at our county park, in the off-season, $0.50 per head flat fee, pit latrines, bring your own water, forage for firewood, off the road a bit.  Lots of trails, rock climbing available if you have the gear.  Unit program entirely.  We are the only unit, it's our own Scout bedlam, no check-in/check-out.

Another local township park allows us to camp for free.

We go to the county and township parks...

For only $9500...am I reading that right?

You could check with local or regional Scouting museums.  They might be interested.

Hello All!

First post for me...☺️

Wondering if you could help me understand something???...I see Arrow WV named in the Chap 11 filing.  When I went to Charity Navigator and pulled up their IRS 990 from 2017 (for example), it names Surbaugh as VP and Director, with reportable compensation of $624,714 (page 7 of 45).  When I check BSA National's for same year, it lists Surbaugh with exactly the same compensation (on page 26 of 111).   Any corporate finance gurus out there explain that?  Looks strange to me...