InquisitiveScouter

5 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Where the two meet is through humility.

Yup

54 minutes ago, yknot said:

If you are not following scout policies and procedures...

Agreed.  But we should all be careful to differentiate between what is printed in "official" publications (G2SS, Scouter Code of Conduct, Safe Swim Defense, Safety Afloat, Climb on Safely, etc.) versus a posting to an FAQ on their website.  

I, for one, do not take website postings as official policy or procedure.  My adult application says "I have read and affirm that I accept the Declaration of Religious Principle. I agree to comply with the rules and regulations of the BSA and the local council, including the Scouter Code of Conduct."  Nothing mentioned there about BSA website FAQ's.

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

Who is babysitting who! Doesn't matter, if babysitting is a word being used in your unit, they they are doing it wrong.

You are making many conclusions from such a short post.  And please notice, I didn't say "our unit."

Yes, "babysitting."  14-17 year olds want to hang out with their buddies, not teach the basics to 10.5 to 12 year olds.  The Scouts who enjoy this part of leading are few.

"The unit leaders are doing it wrong."  Maybe...but I think it is more the parents who are pushing their girls to earn Eagle for the college resume.

Where the rest of your rant is going, it's hard to see...maybe your horse is a bit too high? 

And also...

"When units with different chartered organizations do activities together, this becomes a district or council event and requires council approval."

Our DE is going to get tired my future requests for approval.

We occasionally do co-unit camping together.

Last summer, we did a co-unit canoe trek...guess that was then a district/council event....should I ask for forgiveness??

We do inter-unit campfires, when possible, on trips to non-Scout properties...this is an "activity"...do we have to get approval?

On our Pioneering camping trip, when we build a Monkey Bridge (no higher than 6 feet!) and the other unit camping near us wants to have a go..."Wait!  I have to get my council's approval!"  

Notices will follow the lines of my usual emails..."We intend to do X unless you advise otherwise."  Most of them go unanswered...

From the BSA's COVID-19 FAQ

"Councils make the determination, working closely with their council health supervisor and local health department, about when units can conduct in-person meetings and activities again. If the unit’s local council is allowing in-person activities but has restrictions in place (e.g., no more than 10, social distancing of 6 ft. etc.), the unit must meet and abide by those restrictions – even if the unit is traveling out of council/state."

I was gonna ignore this one, but now that it has been emailed out to our council, I will engage.

Unless your council has already published guidance for "back to normal", you need your council's permission/blessing to conduct unit meetings even when your state/county/municipality may have lifted restrictions?  smh

And if your Summer Camp is out of council/state, you must abide by your home restrictions when more stringent than your destination's?  When in Rome...? 

9 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

Venturing membership is imploding for reasons I am not entirely aware of. 

My daughter and her friends were in Venturing primarily for the outdoor program.  They have that now in Troops.

Most young men I have spoken with were in Venturing for the outdoor program, to get away from "babysitting" in Troops, to leave the advancement program behind, and for girls 😜  With the young women leaving for Troops, many young men are bailing out.

9 hours ago, carebear3895 said:

Get your red berets, gents!

Oh, Lord, no!  Not the berets 😰  Campaign or Expedition Hats!!

"Unexplained extreme fatigue or muscle aches"

Wouldn't being a unit leader and an old fart always explain extreme fatigue and muscle aches??

In case you haven't seen this...National Model Pre-Event Medical Screening Checklist

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-057.pdf

Yeah, 7+30 drive time from Philly area, plus stops for meals/restrooms and gas?  35 Scouts?  No, thanks 😵

3 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

That's kinda insane.

+1

How many times have we done this over the years?  

10 hours ago, mashmaster said:

I am kind, trust me.  My experiences were all before this.  When I had to be Cubmaster, Den Leader, and Committee chair because they couldn't or wouldn't do their job.  So that is my experience.  I was kind by helping carry their load.  

When I have committee members sign up to do things and not follow through which lets the youth down, I am there to pick up the pieces.  Because I am hear for the youth.  I am not doing this for the adults.

So let me know how I am not being kind?

mashmaster, you missed my intent.  I was answering the OP.  At the end, I quoted you to agree that these situations are a fact of life... 

2 hours ago, DuctTape said:

the saturation of those with adult-led scouting experience happened a long long time ago

2 hours ago, desertrat77 said:

It was obvious the BSA no longer valued the independent-minded, outdoor-oriented scouter. 

Gradually, our culture has begun to value Eagle Scout (or just "Scout" in general) less and less.  Someone previously mentioned, a Scout's rank was supposed to reflect what he can DO.  Those days seem gone.  I absolutely hate this "one and done" program.  It fosters an extremely poor attitude towards learning and retaining skills, and encourages taking "the path of least resistance".  They follow the lead of adults, because that is what their parents and our current culture have conditioned them to do.  They (and parents) just want to have you teach the skill, let the Scout demo it once, get the req signed off, RAM dump it, and get the badge.  This mentality will continue to erode the "brand", and eventually, our nation (seriously).

Most Scouts I see now have no initiative.  I seek to train young people to look for, on their own, what to do it, and without prompting, to do it.  Maybe I am just an old fart, but this seems to be a more rare commodity.  I perceived this in the military, too...as the years went by, the youngers seemed more reticent to take chances.  However, it was awesome to empower them to make decisions, and then BACK THEM UP, even when they made mistakes.  Then self-reliant, yet interdependent, leaders emerged. 

These are exactly the things BP saw over 100 years ago, and part of the reason he started Scouting...so I guess it is cyclical in societies.  Are we at, or approaching, a low point now?

Adults make great Senior Patrol Leaders...but that is not our job.

An outdoor, skills-oriented program is a pied piper for boys...they love it.  Have you seen the look on a young man's (or, yes, woman's) face when he chops down a tree?  Or swims a mile? Or actually completes a TRUE orienteering course? Or when he gets up in the morning after spending the night under the stars at 25 Fahrenheit? Or finishes 20 miles hiking in a day?  (And how do you feel when you still do these things?)  Magic

"The Good Idea Fairy" (TGIF)

TGIF: "We really oughta do this idea I have!"

Me: "That's a great idea!  Get started, and let us know if you need any help or funds to make it happen!"

TGIF: "Oh, I don't really have time to do that.  I was just suggesting it for the Troop to do.  But it would be easy, and a great thing to do!"

Me: 👿

First, be kind.  Every person you know is fighting a great battle. Including you.  What is their battle?

Present them with facts and ask them to follow through.  Offer to help only if you can (don't put another rock in your own rucksack).  Focus on behavior, not the individual.

"You said you would do X by the end of March.  It isn't done.  How can I help you complete the task?"

A word of caution...make sure your own house is in order first...

I am constantly managing our Committee Chair, but events in his personal life are understandably distracting him.  We have no functioning COR.  So, I am de facto COR and CC while being SM.  Ain't nobody got time for that

16 hours ago, mashmaster said:

It is kinda a fact of life.

At functions, every once in a while, someone will ask me why I don't buy a new sash because mine is so old and dingy...

I just say "Thanks, but this one means a lot to me."

10 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

This is what happens when a MOVEMENT turns into a BUSINESS.

5 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

Hoffer's three stages of a cause:

1. Movement

2. Business

3. Racket

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Being elected seems as if it is a formality.

Concur...

Permission slips, explanation and written acknowledgement of risk, explicit liability waivers, and a long term quarantine/lockdown plan if there is a case.  Anyone want to go camping for a month straight?

7 minutes ago, Ronmass said:

throw a lot of mud against the wall...some of it may just stick"  Risk vs Reward...

Don't see how National would weigh in on this.  It would erode their bankruptcy argument that councils are autonomous.  That is why they would only issue standards/guidelines to councils which choose to go ahead with their camps.  The guidelines/standards is the CYA for National.  Any departure from those is on the camp staff/ council that hired them.  My bet is, most of the holdouts are biding their time hoping for some relaxation of restrictions or state guidelines that give them some room to operate.  But hope is not a course of action 😁

Wonder if I should take the course, just for the cert?

Minsi isn't far from here...waiting for the other shoe to drop on our chosen camp 

1 minute ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Local council cancelled traditional summer camp

Curious...what state are you in? We are going to camp in NY...and it ain't looking good.

10 minutes ago, malraux said:

Pretty sure ours are about to. There’s a big conference call tonight on the subject, at least on the cub side. But our governor has basically said no camps or pools open till July. 
 

as a side note on that, does anyone have actual signup numbers. Ours are dead. No one signing up, no one asking about it, etc. even if it were allowed, we’d have to cancel because it doesn’t make any financial sense to run a camp with 5 kids. 

We have 34 Scouts signed up for Summer Camp, and a crew of 7 youth for HA.  If they are cancelled, we will run our own programs, subject to state guidelines of course.

1 hour ago, desertrat77 said:

@InquisitiveScouter, we aren't too far from that now...the Zoom meetings and backyard camping trips aren't going away after the current virus subsides.  This will become the new culture of the BSA. 

Lone Scouting for everyone!  Parents sign off requirements; MBCs are contacted through Scoutbook; interaction with the Scouting community is virtual; no need for a council!  Dogs and cats living together...mass hysteria!!  Oh, National still gets your registration fee

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

We just cannot (IMHO) let this DEFINE the BSA, this needs to be PART of what we do.

Exactly...if it was first and foremost, then the reductio ad absurdum is to eliminate the Scouting program.  All risk gone!