InquisitiveScouter

Hmmm... different philosophies, I guess. If they do not schedule any events where map and compass or orienteering events, or aquatics, or whatever, are available for those who need them, as a Scoutmaster, I advise them of the need to provide those opportunities for advancement, but do not "force" anything on the PLC, other than decisions which affect health and safety. And, I am curious... what exactly do you mean by "force." Do you dictate their schedule?

Agree... but making this a reality is quite difficult, as it is the Scouts (PLC) who choose their activities and calendar. If it was up to me (I would be an excellent SPL 😜 ) then the schedule and activities would be radically different. But, as I understand the program, I can only suggest and mentor, and step in (veto) only in cases of health and safety.

My biggest hurdle on this is dealing with Scouts who use their devices primarily for entertainment. Gaming, watching youtube, tiktok, snapchat, whatever the flavor of the day is. When they are doing this, I explain they are disengaging from the activities we are doing, disengaging from their fellow Scouts, and disengaging from their responsibilities in camp. We do ask Scouts to schedule at least an hour per day of "free time" where they can do what they wish, but encourage them to enjoy the outdoors rather than escaping into their devices. If a Scout uses his device inappropriately, like gaming/texting during an activity or lesson, or having their phone on after lights out, then they get one warning. Upon the second infraction, we hold their device for safekeeping until the end of the camping trip. Parents know, understand, and support this policy.

Three adults on "Treks" at Philmont: https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/treks/trekrequirements/ "Each Philmont expedition or group must have at least three BSA registered adult advisers for Scout groups. Three advisers must be at least 21 years of age. There must be a registered female adult leader over 21 in every unit serving females. Each crew is required to have a majority of youth participants, and the maximum number of adults (over 21) is four per crew. Participants 18 through 20 years of age may be counted as youth or adult crew members. " But only two on "Crews": https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/treks/trekrequirements/crewrequirements/ Would someone please elaborate on the difference?? Also, same page, says WFA/CPR can bet met by youth: "Philmont requires that each crew have three participants who have completed Wilderness First Aid and three participants with CPR training. Current certification cards must be uploaded int the Gateway to verify this requirement. With three Wilderness First Aiders and three CPR trained members on the trek, the crew will be better able to handle emergencies. This requirement can be met by youth and/or adult participants."

Your source have any intel on when this might happen? We have a Philmont contingent next summer, and will need to forecast, if impacted.

Trained youth can meet the quota, no??

We get this all the time... Our council and district calendar is slap full of activities. If a Patrol Leaders Council wanted to, they could simply attend all these events, and not have to plan much at all in the way of outdoor activities. But, the PLC in our unit simply does not want to attend the events. The are often sub-par events, with many units attending with youth who simply do not act according to the Scout Oath and Law. Since our Troop is large, our PLC plans events that they want to do, and that, then, are well attended. These have built a great unit identity and sense of Troop cohesion... and our PLC wants to guard that, as I understand it. District and Council volunteers and professionals often ask me why our Troop does not attend their events. I answer simply, "Because our PLC has chosen to do other events." There are a great many volunteers and professionals out there who actually think that unit adults should tell the youth where to go and what to do.

In the same boat with you, brother. There is so much to be done to have a great (or even good) Scouting program, and so few people doing the work. I wear so many different hats at unit, district, and council level, that most of my day is spent doing Scout-stuff. My wife, like yours, thinks it is too much. Hope you find your best path.

Shhhhh!! This is our dirty little secret! Don't tell! You shall not reveal that we have subverted the ideal of supporting a unit program in long term camp, and changed it instead into an individual's "pay your fee, get your MB" scheme to pump out Eagle Scouts and generate council revenue. Into the doghouse with you!

Once upon a time, a member of Greenwich council told me that, since the endowment was so large, and (somehow) unencumbered by national, that the Board in this council could choose their CE without input from National... and did. When threatened with charter removal, the response to National was something like, "Fine, we'll take our multi-million dollar endowment and choose another program for our youth." So National left them alone. Could not verify this was true, though... Can anyone out there confirm that?

That was her Gold Award Project for GSUSA, not an Eagle Scout Service Project for Scouting America. Her ESSP was for Richfield Heritage Preserve.

No BSA Accident Insurance coverage for them, I wonder??

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/430-938-24-Range-and-Target-Activities-Manual_8.30.pdf See page 12. Only program levels above Cub Scouts can conduct archery events outside of a "Scouting America Accredited Camp". Need more details other than provided in the story, though...

There are no minimum age and qualifications for that role. The Aquatics Supervision manual, which is the ultimate printed authority, says on page 6-6, under Safe Swim Defense (SSD), (emphasis added), 4. Response Personnel (Lifeguards) Every swimming activity must be closely and continuously monitored by a trained rescue team on the alert for and ready to respond during emergencies. Professionally trained lifeguards satisfy this need when provided by a regulated facility or tour operator. When lifeguards are not provided by others, the adult supervisor must assign at least two rescue personnel, with additional numbers to maintain a ratio of one rescuer to every 10 participants. The supervisor must provide instruction and rescue equipment and assign areas of responsibility as outlined in this book. The qualified supervisor, the designated response personnel, and the lookout work together as a safety team. An emergency action plan should be formulated and shared with participants as appropriate. If the other elements of Safe Swim Defense are in place, water rescues will seldom be needed. Most lifeguards at Scout summer camps, many of whom work several seasons, are never called upon to make a rescue. The same should be true at unit swims. Even so, there is always some chance of an unexpected medical emergency or other situation that could incapacitate a person in the water. Fortunately, rescues in a controlled situation are relatively safe, simple, and easy to learn. Danger could arise if a would-be rescuer is a poor swimmer ill-trained and ill-equipped for the situation, or if water conditions are hazardous. However, hazardous water situations would violate the third tenet of Safe Swim Defense and should not be present at a unit swim site. Chapter 10 will alert the reader to skills that should be mastered to ensure victim and rescuer safety, the equipment that supports those skills, and situations that should be included in emergency action plans. Older youth and adults who have completed the Lifesaving merit badge, Swimming and Water Rescue, are candidates for response personnel, as are those who have American Red Cross or other professional lifeguard training. Other good swimmers may be used to maintain the required 1 to 10 ratio if coached in basic surveillance and rescue techniques. The line-and-tender procedure for the First Class rank is one such technique. Adult leaders, including the qualified supervisor, may serve as response personnel for an entire activity that is not too long. Short breaks in concentration are provided during buddy checks. If youth are used, they will generally need to be rotated so that they too may enjoy the activity. The emergency action plan may specify that response personnel with more training will handle special situations, such as a spinal injury, whereas all response personnel may respond when a reaching rescue is indicated. Response personnel will generally work as buddy pairs, with each buddy monitoring the other. Note that council maintained and operated swimming areas, such as those at council camps, are subject to state codes and typically must have professionally trained lifeguards on duty. Regulatory requirements for the number, training, and supervision of those lifeguards supercede Safe Swim Defense protocols for response personnel for unit swims. That is, council camps are “regulated facilities” that must use professionally trained lifeguards in numbers mandated by statutes. The 1:10 ratio for lay rescue personnel does not apply. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor Program/Aquatics/pdf/Aquatics_34346.pdf A lot to unpack there... basically, read Chapter 10, and if your rescue team has those skills, you are good to go. Minimum number of people to conduct a unit swim? Four... 1. Lookout 2 & 3. Rescue team 4. A "swimmer" Any two of those four could be the 21+ year olds, one for SSD Supervision, and the second to cover your two-deep requirement for the event. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here are some "qualifications" available to you, as an adult leader to select from, to meet this point of SSD: (not all inclusive, and listed in decreasing order of "trust" (my opinion only)...) A. Go to National Camping School and become a Scouting America Aquatics Instructor, and train your troop. B. Become a certified lifeguard through an accredited agency (American Red Cross, American Lifeguard Association, United States Lifesaving Association, etc, etc, etc) C. Become a Scouting America Swim and Water Rescue Instructor, and train your troop... D. Become Scouting America Swim and Water Rescue certified E. Lifesaving Merit Badge F. Swimming Merit Badge G. Swim and rescue skills up to First Class. As the adult leader assuming responsibility for the safe conduct of the swim, you determine whether you meet the SSD point of : All swimming and activity afloat must be supervised by mature and conscientious adults, age 21 or older, who - understand and knowingly accept responsibility for the well-being and safety of youth members in their care, - are experienced in the particular activity, - are confident in their ability to respond appropriately in an emergency, and - are trained and committed to the nine points of Scouting America’s Safety Afloat and/ or the eight points of Safe Swim Defense. Good luck!

Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.... the definition of insanity 😜