InquisitiveScouter

All to better serve you and your unit!

Because if it weren't for non-sense, we'd have no sense at all? 😜

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For requirement 9a (20 nights), the verbiage says "Each night must be spent either under the sky, in a tent you have pitched yourself (if a tent is provided and already set up, you do not need to pitch your own), in a hammock that is safely strung outdoors, in a lean-to, or other three-sided shelter with an open front. Nights spent in indoor lock-in events, cabin camping, hotel stays, or other covered accommodations do not count toward the 20 nights." So, staying in the cabin of the sailboat does not count. Sleeping on deck (because they are making a comfortable "ground bed" and sleeping under the stars ... sure! Requirement 9.b. (4) says, "Take a nonmotorized trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles.", So, if the sailboat travels either four hours, or five miles, under sail (not motoring), then, yes, it counts. Not sure where it says these nights count for Sea Scouts for Camping MB? Reference, please? Other than for the National Outdoor Awards Program? "Complete 25 days and nights of camping—including six consecutive days (five nights) of camping (Sea Scouts may be on a boat), approved and under the auspices and standards of Scouting America—including nights camped as part of requirements 1 through 3 above. Scouts must complete six consecutive days (five nights) of the 25 nights at a Scouting America accredited resident camp." https://www.scouting.org/programs/scouts-bsa/advancement-and-awards/noa/ [NOTE: this verbiage contradicts itself... "Sea Scouts may be on a boat" is listed before the "...under the auspices and standards of Scouting America" stipulation. To communicate clearly, exceptions should be specifically spelled out AFTER stating the rule.] Nothing specific about this in the Guide to Advancement: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf Or in articles on Aaron on Scouting: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/06/24/ask-expert-isnt-camping-night-camping-mb/ https://scoutingmagazine.org/2017/12/no-glamping-allowed/ Or the Sea Scout Manual: https://seascout.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/3323925-Sea-Scout-Manual-PDF-Posted-02182025.pdf Let's take this argument to its absurd extreme. Your unit books a cruise on a cruise ship. The cruise ship is under power, so the trip does not count for 9b, but it would count for 9a, because you are on a boat? No. Because there is an overwhelming number of variations on "camping" and the legalese of what constitutes camping, I look at the spirit of the thing. And yet, it is difficult to articulate the spirit of it, as long as the "if a tent is provided and already set up, you do not need to pitch your own" clause is there... Instead of arguing the legalities of it, this is one I ultimately leave to individual Scout, and the leader signing it off. If you and the Scout agree those nights count, then count them. My Scouts and I do not count them. We did our sailing adventure... I asked our Scouts, and they agreed. We only recorded nights spent on deck under the stars. And we had buddy boats... one equipped with air conditioning that could be run while moored, and one without (only run while in a powered slip.) Even the Scouts on the boat not air conditioned agreed their nights below deck should not count toward the requirement. Final thought... if you need to rely on nights below deck to get your 20 for Camping Merit Badge... (insert a phrase appropriate for Scouting that communicates your level of individual effort just doesn't cut it...) Happy Trails

@ZebraLongwing, the answer to this is clearly in the Guide to Safe Scouting: Tenting In Cub Scouting Parents and guardians may share a tent with their family. In Older Youth Programs (I.e., Scouts BSA, Sea Scouts, and Venturing) Separate tenting arrangements must be provided for male and female adults, and for male and female youth. Youth and adults must tent separately. Youth sharing a tent must be no more than two years apart in age. Spouses may share a tent. As an exception, a parent or guardian may share a tent with their own child if they are of the same sex. https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/#a Your local council can make exceptions to this policy for reasons of health and safety. For example, once upon a time, we had a Scout who had night terrors and sleep walking behavior. The parents were deeply concerned for the Scout's safety on camping trips. So, we, wrote a detailed email of the situation and our recommendations to the council exec: a parent would register with the Troop, sleep in same tent with Scout to deal with the issue if it arose, and parent would not count toward our requirement for two-deep. This was acceptable to council (and national), and the exception was granted.

There is a downward trend in literacy in the US. Most kids aren't reading any more. I have noticed this in troop settings. Scouts (and adults) just aren't reading things, like the Scout Handbook. When asked for instruction on a skill, I first ask the Scout to read that section of the Scout Handbook. Most are opening their books to that section for the very first time (even though the page numbers are listed on their requirements.) In my perception, Scouts demonstrate lower and lower reading ability over the last decade. I often have to help 12, 13, 14, & 15 year olds with words in the book. I believe electronic devices and internet content are the greatest contributor to the decline; poor parenting and reliance on substandard school systems are the second greatest contributor. (My wife and I believed that it was our responsibility to teach our children to read, among other things, and so they did exceptionally well in school. Also, we limited their access to electronics and gave them books to read to occupy their time.) COVID may have accelerated this trend. Here are some 2025 stats listed from the national Literacy Institute https://www.thenationalliteracyinstitute.com/2024-2025-literacy-statistics On average, 79% of U.S. adults nationwide are literate in 2024. 21% of adults in the US are illiterate in 2024. 54% of adults have a literacy below a 6th-grade level (20% are below 5th-grade level). [this is astounding to me; that's about 130 million adults reading below 6th grade level] Low levels of literacy costs the US up to 2.2 trillion per year. 34% of adults lacking literacy proficiency were born outside the US. Massachusetts was the state with the highest rate of child literacy. New Mexico was the state with the lowest child literacy rate. New Hampshire was the state with the highest percentage of adults considered literate. The state with the lowest adult literacy rate was California. Where does the US rank in literacy? [worldwide] The US ranks 36th in literacy.

Agree, if they participate... we have some Scouts with sparse attendance at meetings and rare attendance on outings. They do things for advancement purposes only, because they (and their parents) focus on advancement as the end, and not the means. If I was the benevolent dictator, I'd not renew many of our Scouts' registrations each year, due to lack of participation... that, in order to focus more of our resources on the ones that do come and participate.

It is easy to lie, cheat, and steal your way to Eagle Scout... I have seen many a "Paper Eagle Scout" over the years. It has literally become akin to "pay your fee, get your degree." If you keep your membership up, attend a few summer camps where you sit around a picnic table and listen to a 15 year old talk about a merit badge, and have your parents do your project, you, too, can be given an Eagle Scout rank patch. When these come to me for assistance, I hold to the requirements. Nothing more, and nothing less. I do not sign requirements if I believe the Scout has not done them as written, and have had some parents be quite upset with me when I refuse to participate in helping them maintain the facade. They have always found someone else with, let's say, a different standard of integrity, who will sign off stuff... My stance is always that "I am only responsible for my own actions."

The OP also ignores elements of complexity in the organization... When you first "sign up", you really have no idea what you are getting into. The organizational structures and policies are discovered or revealed to you over time. (Or they change...) It is also naive to expect anyone to agree 100% with every policy or decision that comes down the pipe. The organization is made of people... and people often make poor decisions. I agree with the ideals, aims, and methods of Scouting, and I pursue those. I find the organization is often at war within itself because of policies, actions, decisions taken which do not coherently align with the ideals, aims, and methods. Here is a case in point... The Scout Oath presents a tenet to us to be morally straight. For most of its history, BSA prohibited open homosexuals from being adult leaders in the organization. They even won a challenge to this policy in the Supreme Court. In my faith and belief, acts of homosexuality are a moral evil. Therefore, I did not, and do not support the BSA's reversal on this policy. I can tolerate the policy, but I do not accept it. There is a difference... I have learned to reconcile this, given the circumstances of BSA's other policies surrounding the issue... to wit, our CO has the latitude to prohibit adults who openly profess or practice homosexuality, and our Troop Committee / parents will not accept a leader into our fold who does so. These parents do not wish their children to be exposed to these ideas in our Scouting environment. Further, BSA policy specifically prohibits discussions of these matters in a Scouting setting. So, the issue should never be brought up. In effect, this is equivalent to a don't ask, don't tell policy. I do encounter volunteers in BSA who openly push the issue. I simply disengage and walk away. See item 6. in the Scouter Code of Conduct: "I will not discuss or engage in any form of sexual conduct while engaged in Scouting activities. I will refer Scouts with questions regarding these topics to talk to their parents or spiritual advisor."

So, you'd rather everyone drink the Kool-aid? And if they do not want to, nor fall in line with everything, then they should leave?

We have tried, but, like most of these positions, you usually wind up with a Scout doing little more than wearing a patch and doing some "low threshold" tasks during their tenure. (to use your words.) Big picture, for each SPL tenure of office (for this unit it is every six months), the SPL must appoint a slate of PORs. Many often continue in their role, and that is fine. Shortly after installation into his office, the SPL organizes and leads an Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops (ILST). During ILST, the PORs learn about their jobs and SMART goals. They must use that information to develop three SMART goals for their tenure, and the goals must be approved by the SPL (and the SM) I am the adult in our unit who mentors the OE Guide. The three goals we see are along these lines: 1. By the end of my tenure, I will complete the Outdoor Ethics Orientation Course, S1110. ( An alternate to this is, by the end of tenure, I will assist in teaching an S110.) 2. By the end of my tenure, I will complete the Outdoor Ethics Awareness Award. (Or alternate, I will complete my OE Action Award.) 3. By the end of my tenure, I will give two 5-minute presentations on an Outdoor Ethics topic or principle at a Troop meeting, both of which must include teaching and practicing a hands-on skill. (How to hang a bear bag, how to deal with dishwater after a meal, how to measure 200 feet so you know where to dump dishwater, how to erase the evidence of a fire using Leave No Trace techniques, etc.) The Scout should come up with these goals, but often, the Scout does not "know what right looks like." I view these as all low threshold, but it seems over the last decade or so, even these have become significant challenges for Scouts. And, we have not had an OE Guide for the last year. We try to use the job descriptions from the Scout Handbook to create the SMART goals, as those list specific tasks of the position. Creating and approving the goals is a chore, and we often fall short on doing the work necessary to ensure accountability for the goals, unless the Scout needs the position as credit for advancement. Our Scouts generally avoid PORs nowadays, unless needed for rank advancement... a sad state of affairs if you ask me, and one of the signs that our unit is on a downward trajectory. (I see this dearth of effort to drive accountability [by SPL and adults] as a contributing factor to the downward trajectory.)

And how about a drawing of a pirate holding a sword in one hand, and a VIPER in the other?? Now that would be cool

And another... and this will (as it has in the past) generate controversy... Pet peeve: Requiring a Scout to say "Thank You" when handing a folded pocketknife. And admonishing them when they do not. Read your Scout Handbook. A "Thank You" is required only when handing an axe. Should a Scout say "Thank You"? Yes, of course, a Scout is Courteous. Must a Scout say it, as a matter of instruction and requirement? No. If you say "yes", then do you impose the same requirement for the exchange of all other items? Pens and pencils, books, papers, spatulas, first aid kits, food items, etc, etc, etc. that have as much risk as a folded pocketknife?

OK... a pet peeve... yelling "Signs Up!"

Bottom Line: CO owns the money, too... not council. Here is the last finance guidance I have from BSA legal on disposition of funds upon dissolution of a unit. I have not searched for an update on this. Please review. https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Fiscal_Policies_and_Procedures_for_BSA_Units_May_2023.pdf Also, you find nothing of the sort in the current Charter Agreement form: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/524-95625-Annual-Charter-Agreement.pdf Now, that will not stop council from asking for the money. We had a Crew fold here a few years ago... the unit returned excess monies to CO, and then CO asked the council what to do with it. Council said, of course, to give it to them. However, there was a big problem... some unit members had already paid dues and membership fees for the next charter year. The decision to fold was made after some had already paid. When the families found out, they, rightfully, asked for their money back, as they had paid for next year's program. They got nothing. Due to this incident, a few families left Scouting for good. I fault the unit leadership, the CO, and council for the situation. The unit committee did not uphold their end of the bargain: "The unit committee shall apply unit funds and property to the payment of unit obligations." I would argue that the return of dues for the future year was a "unit obligation."