InquisitiveScouter

Exactly. I think the cooler heads at National understand their entire program would die if they lost the support of adult volunteers en masse, if they threw one adult involved in a situation to the wolves, and then lost control of the narrative surrounding the incident. Bad PR = loss of adult volunteers = loss of program = loss of Scouts = loss of Boy Scouts of America doing business as Scouting America = loss of their paycheck This is already happening in other areas, forcing Scouting America into survival mode (make no mistake, that is where we are right now). And I, too, often question whether "...the juice is really worth the squeeze." (Love that phrase, and I'm gonna use it, and not even give you credit )

Great question! Even with all the "threats" I've heard and hand-wringing I've seen, I have yet to confirm one case where BSA did not step up and cover the volunteers leaders in their settlements... Anyone out there have an anecdote?

From the Youth Application: "Parent Agreement. I have read the Scout Oath and Scout Law, and I want my child to join Scouting. I will assist them in abiding by the policies of Scouting America and the chartered organization. I will: • Serve as an adult partner while my child is a Lion or Tiger." The parent has some supervisory responsibility in this, at least for their own child. ----------------------- Also there: "Mandatory Reporting All persons involved in Scouting must immediately report to local authorities any good-faith suspicion or belief that any child is or has been physically or sexually abused; physically or emotionally neglected; exposed to any form of violence or threat; or exposed to any form of sexual exploitation including the possession, manufacture, or distribution of child pornography, online solicitation, enticement, or showing of obscene material. No person may abdicate this reporting responsibility to any other person." This verbatim message is also purveyed through SYT and the Guide to Safe Scouting. All registered adults present are mandatory reporters... this is one area I think paid professionals, COR's and volunteers mutually fail at... discussing what this means and what their responsibilities are. The basic mentality I see is that many people think SYT applies only to sexual assault. ------------------------------------- From the Annual Health and Medical Record (which parents must sign): NOTE: Due to the nature of programs and activities, the Boy Scouts of America and local councils cannot continually monitor compliance of program participants or any limitations imposed upon them by parents or medical providers. ----------------- And there are many questions here... -- What is an "indoor snowball fight"? See G2SS Prohibited Activities #15. Activities where participants shoot or throw objects at each other, such as rock-throwing, paintball, laser or archery tag, sock fights, or dodgeball https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss07/#b -- Was this "violence" or was is a rough-and-tumble game where a large kid fell on a small one and hurt him? This may have been perceived initially as an injury due to the activity, rather than "violence." -- Were the Scout leaders actually negligent? I can see something like this getting out of control and an injury happening really fast. They will have to explain the "indoor snowball fight" vs Prohibited Activities list, though... that is where a claim of negligence would have grounds -- OK, the "Scoutmaster" (probably means Cubmaster or Den Leader, but OK) was outside... but were there two other registered adults present? If yes, kind of a moot argument there. (That he was rumored vaping is moot... he/she could have been in the bathroom for all we know.) "All Scouting functions, meetings, and activities should be conducted on a smoke-free basis, with smoking areas located away from all participants." Was he vaping in an area away from participants?? If so, and any two other registered leaders were present, this argument falls away, too... --------------- I relayed in a post sometime back... our SE told volunteers (at a type of fireside chat) that National's patience with volunteers violating policies was wearing thin, and there are elements within the organization who advocate not defending volunteers who do, or offering settlements based on their non-compliance with policies. This one will be interesting. Like @skeptic says, "Follow the rules people" And like @Eagle1993 advises "Just get excess liability insurance and follow BSA policy and you will be fine." , which would be great legal advice, too, if he were lawyer ------------------- From the G2SS (key overall points underlined) GENERAL INFORMATION When it comes to the safety guide, here are some important points for you to remember: Know the Guide—All participants in official Scouting activities should become familiar with the document and applicable Scouting America program literature or manuals. The guide is a resource as well as a summary of the materials provided by Scouting America. Know the Law—Be aware that state or local government regulations supersede Scouting America practices, policies, and guidelines. Know the Risks—The Guide to Safe Scouting does not cover every possible activity, but it provides guidance on how to evaluate risks and proceed safely if explicit requirements do not exist. Check out the Activity Planning and Risk Assessment section. Know the Restrictions—The document includes a list of restricted or prohibited activities. Know the Limits—The document contains age-appropriate guidelines for activities. Find out which and when certain activities are appropriate for particular age groups. Know the Program—The guide points to other Scouting America program documents such as Safe Swim Defense, the National Shooting Sports Manual, and additional program materials.

SECTION 2. Clause 1. The Judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;—to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;—to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;—to Controversies between two or more States; between a State and Citizens of another State; between Citizens of different States,—between Citizens of the same State claiming Land under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects. So, yes.... applies nation-wide. A SCOTUS ruling is the "law of the land". As examples, Brown v. Board of Education, and Miranda v. Arizona. Enjoy

SCOTUS just ruled on this... Mirabella v Bonta https://www.aalrr.com/newsroom-alerts-4207 That is now prohibited in government, as it violates parents' rights.

I served Scouting multiple decades without that recognition. Later in life, I was blessed with success in the markets and large retirement pension, and so made a donation to our local council endowment. Was awarded SB that same year. Coincidence?

No... just Google, but the response does use an AI assist. None of that was legal advice, btw. That is an outline of what civil law suits could be brought and how they would be looked at. Nothing about that tells a client what to do. The only advice I gave to @FireStone was "I urge you to let the parents in your unit know (tactfully and discreetly) if there is a transgender child in the Troop, and allow them to decide the best course of action for their own child." Which is what any reasonable person should do. And you do not need a law degree to be a reasonable person.

Clearly stated "check with legal counsel in your state."

I just re-read this and saw the blurb above, too... National has issued no clarification on registration policy. No mention of it here: https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/scouting-america-statement-concerning-department-of-war-announcement/ Now, would someone please explain what this gobbledygook means? "Memorializing our existing practices for membership registration and safeguarding youth"(This from the email we all got on 27 Feb.) Here is the current registration policy, "It is the philosophy of Scouting to welcome all eligible youth, regardless of gender, race, ethnic background, sexual orientation, or gender identification, who are willing to accept Scouting’s values and meet any other requirements of membership." https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/2025-Rules_Regulations_NEB-Approved-10.28.2025.pdf -------------------------- However, it seems Hegseth came away from the agreement with National with a different perception of what they had agreed upon... 3. “Scouting America will modify its policy to make clear that membership will be based solely on biological sex at birth and not gender identity. That means that the application, any application, will have only two sex designations, male and female. The application must match the applicant’s birth certificate. The secretary noted, “Scouting will also make clear that biological boys and girls will not be allowed to occupy or share intimate spaces together. Toilets, showers, tents, anywhere like that.” https://dailycitizen.focusonthefamily.com/can-scouting-america-be-trusted/ Watch the video link, particularly at timestamp 3:47. Over the weekend, the article says, Krone took a different tack... If Scouting America does not make those policy modifications, look for more pressure "...in the next six months." Here's an AP article also: https://apnews.com/article/scouting-america-pentagon-military-boy-scouts-14a5fc1521fcd1e51103638f6f504214

Google is your friend... and so is your legal counsel. Key in on "negligence and failure to supervise" in the results below. Exposure could be ruled as abuse in many states. YMMV. Again, check with legal counsel in your state. As it would most likely be a civil case, there'd be a jury. So, it would ultimately be up to them. I underlined a pertinent point in there... I wholeheartedly believe a jury would see it as unreasonable on your part that you did not inform the minor's parents about the situation before any "damage" was done. I urge you to let the parents in your unit know (tactfully and discreetly) if there is a transgender child in the Troop, and allow them to decide the best course of action for their own child. ----------------------------------------------------------- Who Can Be Held Liable in These Cases? If a child was abused by another child, most state laws allow a civil claim against the people or organizations that had a duty to protect them. These third-party claims focus on negligence and failure to supervise. Potential defendants may include: Parents or legal guardians of the offending child If the parents knew their child posed a risk and failed to intervene, they may be held liable for failing to properly supervise or control their child’s behavior. Schools or teachers If the abuse happened at school or during school-related activities, the district may be liable for failing to supervise students, ignoring red flags, or allowing risky situations to occur. Daycare providers or babysitters These individuals and facilities have a legal duty to monitor children in their care. Allowing unsupervised contact, ignoring warning signs, or failing to act on complaints can result in civil liability. Churches, camps, or youth programs Any organization that oversees group activities for children must ensure that their staff follow clear guidelines for supervision and safety. Failing to separate children with behavioral issues or allowing unsafe environments may be grounds for a lawsuit. Therapists or counselors In rare cases, a professional who knew about harmful behaviors but did not report or address them may also face liability. What Must Be Proven in a Civil Claim? To succeed in a civil case involving peer-to-peer abuse, the legal team must show that the defendant acted negligently. This means proving that they failed to act in a way that a reasonable person or organization would have under similar circumstances. Examples of negligence may include: Leaving children unsupervised in restrooms, locker rooms, or private areas Ignoring reports or behavioral red flags about a child’s aggressive or sexual conduct Failing to separate children after an initial incident Not following school or program safety policies Failing to notify parents or law enforcement after a report Each case depends on the specific facts, including the age of the children involved, the setting, and whether adults had an opportunity to intervene. How Are These Cases Handled in Court? Courts treat these cases with care and seriousness. The goal is to protect the survivor while examining whether any adult or institution failed in their duty to provide a safe environment. Most civil cases involving minors are handled confidentially. Protective orders may be issued to keep the names of the children private. If the case moves forward, the court may appoint a guardian ad litem to represent the survivor’s best interests. Damages in these cases can include: Medical and mental health treatment Emotional pain and suffering Educational support or school changes Long-term therapy or trauma recovery services Punitive damages in cases of severe negligence Can These Cases Be Resolved Without a Trial? Yes. Many civil cases involving child abuse settle out of court. This can provide families with a resolution that includes financial support, institutional changes, or formal apologies without requiring a full trial. Attorneys works with families to decide the best course of action. Some prefer to pursue a public case to raise awareness, while others seek a private resolution focused on healing. Taking Action After Peer-to-Peer Abuse If your child has been harmed by another child, it is completely normal to feel overwhelmed and unsure about what steps to take next. These situations are emotionally complex and often come with a mix of shock, confusion, anger, and grief. Parents may question how this could happen, whether anyone noticed warning signs, and what can be done to protect their child moving forward. In many cases, families also struggle with silence. Schools, camps, or organizations may downplay the incident or attempt to resolve the matter quietly. Meanwhile, your child may be dealing with trauma, fear, or shame that makes it difficult for them to talk about what happened. You may feel alone in advocating for their safety and healing.

Here is my motive: I have my own opinions, but I would never foist them on the rest of the Troop. In January 2017, when BSA said they would allow transgender boys in the program, we presented the issue to the Chartered Organization (CO). The CO (in their regular meeting with the Institution Head (IH)) said they would fully support allowing transgender boys in Troop, but they left the decision up to the parents and the leaders who are doing the job. We then had an "all hands" meeting with parents. About 35 attended, out of 70ish. We presented the choice to them, and the decision was unanimous... we would not accept transgender boys into the Troop, as this did not align with the way they wanted their boys raised and educated. (In back room discussions, several families let me know that if the group chose to accept them, they would leave Scouting.) In October 2017, when the opportunity arose to create a separate girls Troop (starting 01 February 2019), we presented our CO with the option. The CO (in their regular meeting with the IH) said they would fully support a girls Troop. We then had another "all hands" meeting with parents. About 35 attended, out of 70ish (basically the same folks). We presented the choice to them of 1. Remain a boy only Troop 2. Start a girls Troop and share "committees" and gear for support 3. Keep boys and girls programs and support separate (if someone else started a girls Troop there) They chose #1. Last fall/winter, after BSA ended the "pilot" mixed Troop, and gave the option for Troops to be combined, we, once again, informed our CO of the development. Once again, the CO gave support, but deferred to the Troop adults actually doing the work, and parents whose responsibility it it to safeguard their child's upbringing. Once again, we met with parents. And, once again, they chose to remain a boy only Troop. Our parents run the spectrum from left to right. When the decisions actually "hit home", and would affect their won sons, it was amazing that, unanimously, they chose to go the way they did. Their was no dissent, and no one felt offended nor decided to leave the Troop because of these decisions. I stick to the program, and let parents make well-informed choices for their Scouts. They all appreciate the transparency, and the acknowledgement that others may believe differently. Although it has not happened, our collective approach, if a transgender boy applied to our unit, would be to welcome them to Scouting, but steer them to another Troop more suited to their situation. (And we have good rapport with that other Troop.) Our Scout Executive was perfectly fine with this approach.

Be very careful. If, Janey (who is really Jimmy) is in a tent with Jenny, and Jenny's parents do not know that Janey is Jimmy, then if Jimmy's jimmy gets seen by Jenny, then you may have a law suit on your hands. And when they subpoena your computer, this thread may be used against you for damages. You'd best inform all parents involved, and allow them to determine what is best for their youngsters.

Those slides from 2024 NAM. You'll notice the projection for end of 2025 was 1,224,000, all programs. Actual 2025 end was 907,950, so 25.8% below projected.

That was in Scouts only, not all programs. All programs 2020 was about 1 million. https://nam.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2024/05/Change-the-Way-We-Work-Together.pdf

Taking out the LFL numbers, we now have 748,061 members in all unit based programs. Last time it was that low? 1933