TMSM

1 hour ago, DuctTape said:

IMO, there should not be a "troop policy". The PLC is the decision making body for troop elections (when, where, how, etc..). By having adult policies which the scouts follow denies them the opportunity to play the game of scouts. The decisions regarding election of SPL and other troopwide positions are an example of "a man's game cut down to boy size." Sure it is more efficient and cuts down on adult drama to have troop policy, but why deny the scouts a such an opportunity to learn and grow.

All scouting is local and it difficult to know whats best in this situation. Allowing the PLC to make every decision can be a little difficult. If the PLC decides elections should be every 3 years, every month etc there mayy be more chaos than usual. In the OPs case I think its good he made changes based on others past experience and now should meet with the PLC to help them understand and to listen to any objections they have to the length of terms. 

My first week as SM the PLC voted to not wear uniforms (ever), changed the day we met and to only play dodgeball during our weekly meetings. At that point I decided scout-led sometimes needs the right guidance for better outcomes.

This would be a good discussion at your district round table (if you have one). I often will google the place I think would be good for the scouts to explore and add the word "troop" to the search. Most of the time other troops have done the same trip in the past (no need to recreate the wheel) I then hunt down someone from that troop for advice. Works about 50% of the time

Looks like Parsons HA base may have some answers for you - https://www.seattlebsa.org/scouts-bsa-camping/42-scouts-bsa-camping-cat/67-pacific-northwest-high-adventure. Looks like Troop 27, 166, 15 and 493 might know a little more about this area. I googled "hood canal troop canoe"

I think if you made the term length change for the right reasons and had others agree then this is what you tell the scout and his parents. Just getting out of NYLT is a good reason to be a PL again before running as SPL. Also tell the scout your are looking forward to him running for SPL in 6 months.

17 hours ago, Owls_are_cool said:

I had long conversations with the outgoing COR and the next Scoutmaster today. I feel comfortable that I can contribute as assistant scoutmaster and we are on the same page. I will be able to focus more on mentoring scouts and let the arrows be pointed at another person for a while. 

 

Sounds like you are on the right track - good luck. The pain will only last a year or so but it will be worth it.

My 2 cents

- SM should not be involved with determining requirements for any MB for a specific scout. However scouts should not be cooking for adults, adults are not patrol members  although could be part of a crew. You own the program and you should be able to determine who is in which patrol when needed.Make yourself the leader of the adults patrol so you can deny this type of MB requirement bending

- The new -to-be SM and you need to sit down and have a discussion on your vison vs his. Does he have one, is he willing to put in the work, what makes sense for the scouts you or him. One of you should be SM and the other can serve as CC for a short while to cover for the other.

- Have a plan, communicate the vision SM + CC and move forward. BSA says patrol method so run it by the book, use the book in your defense for everything. Your answer to anyone who says the book is wrong should be the number of years scouts has been doing it this way. 

1 hour ago, dkurtenbach said:

e.  @MattRmentioned the adult desire for "efficiency" -- something Baden-Powell encountered and warned against almost from the beginning of the Scouting Movement.

I had some committe members (married couple) ask me (SM) to provide a list of each scout skill we would learn at each weekly meeting and cross reference this to a T-1 requirements matrix - for efficiency sake so their son could make 1st class first year, the dad signed up for 10 Eagle Merit badges and started to counsel his own son.

But I digress, there is still value in doing the Patrol Method (especially cooking). Troops need to keep trying to make it work and give scouts the opportunity to learn in small groups by doing, failing and succeeding. Giving them checklists outside of the usual gear, patrol box, duty roster takes the fun out of scouting.

12 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:

There's nothing in that 1967 description that could not be done by patrols today (with, of course, the required adult presence).  But are patrols that operate like this still relatively common?  Or is this type of patrol a relic of the past?

With that description the patrol is a relic of the past. The death of activities like pick up games has drastically reduced the number of young leaders that can lead a group to fullfill an idea about an activity. It still happens but most likely not as much as in the past.

To me this is why scouts is so important and why it gives scouts and advantage over non-scouts. Providing the opportunity to lead a group to do some type of activity is better than not even realising that skill is valuable. Some troop do patrols really well and do have patrol campouts and patrol hikes frequently. We still do patrol hikes and yes we thumb our nose at the "rules" and allow them to hike alone but I doubt it iss the same type of hiking as before. We separate patrols by 50 yards or more when possible and they do cook and have fires on their own but I doubt the experience is like camping alone by patrol. We still have some patrols meet at someones house - no way of stopping this but I doubt they have the freedom to do whatever was done in the past.

10 year old post. 

59 minutes ago, dkurtenbach said:

A valiant effort.  But I think the time of real patrols in the Boy Scouts of America has passed.

Interesting opinion. In my area the patrol method is alive and kicking. I do my best to make friends with other SMs and have sat in on quite a few of their troop meetings and can say each one does scouting different but they all used the patrol method. 

1 hour ago, dkurtenbach said:

And the experts on Troop meetings provide time on their model troop meeting agenda for "Breakout Groups."  Patrols don't even have the dignity of designated Patrol Meetings.

The troop meeting format is meant to be somewhat flexible and not dictate how you teach in your troop, We interpret the group breakout as a patrol breakout.  We gather as a troop for 10 minutes, then partol does hands on teaching, then inter patrol competition using the skils you learned (this fits perfect in the format).

I would love to see the JTE totally re-written to guide to more patrol activities.

2 hours ago, skeptic said:

Right now I am trying to decide how to handle having been nominated for the updated Scoutmaster award 

An updated SM award? What does it look like?

I am currently at 10 knots and put them on sequentially starting with AOL. I am going to stick with 3 rows of 3 for now.

I spent last week at Sea Base doing the outisland excursion. This is a week long trip and 5 of those days are on Munson Island (30 miles from Key West). Here are my notes and observations in case someone is looking for more info.

- Be prepared they will test you on swimming ability

- They didnt seem to be concerned with BMI based on some of the rather large men that were on the island.

- The war canoe holds 9 people with the mate riding on the back of the canoe steering.

- The canoe paddle is 6 miles and is much easier with 16 year olds vs 13year olds. It tooks us about 2 hours of paddling vs 4+ of some of the younger crews.

- 13 is too young for this. Most of the 13ers that we saw were not ready for the physical aspect and for things like night snorkel

- The food is carb heavy and the scouts are in charge of the daily menu. Get ready to have pancakes for breakfast, mac n cheese for lunch and spaghetti for dinner. If you are used to a little protein each meal pack some beef jerky, spam singles or even tuna foil packs. They do have some protein (tuna, chicken) and you will eat any fish you catch but you wont know when that happens.

- The scouts had a great time and loved the fact that we did so many diferent things such as snorkel , deep see fishing, kayaking etc.

- Be ready for almost daily repeat after me songs and do what I do songs. I am all in for participating but it seemed a bit much.

- They do ask you not to bring a watch or phone so do as they say and have a good time relaxing.

- There are 2 camping areas the back yard and the front yard. The back yard was not as damaged by the hurricane and is closer to the beach breeze

- Sleeping in a hammock was great, I brought a bug net but also had a bag liner that had permethrin baked into it.  

- The scouts that did not use a bug net were eaten alive by no-seeums. They spent most there sleeping in tents

I am sorry this happened to your son. I do find it odd for an SPL to bully his own ASPL. In our troop using the guidence of BSA the SPL chooses his ASPL with the help of SM.

The SM is doing the right thing and make sure he shares his findings with the CC.

I switched from using the guide to using powerpoint and have had more success. Make it fun, have lots of breaks, use slides only as a framework to tell the story or the point you are trying to make. In the beginning I used 2 or 3 adults but have done this enough years to have the scouts do most of the training. The "who is your potato" and paper airplane making are the best of the games.

Don't use every game every time, switch it up so it does not get stale.

Additional games - Say what I say, do the oppisite of what I do, balloons with responsibilities written on them, .

We go out for pizza afterwards (nice place) in our class As

Everything? like Nova, recruiter, emergency prep, interpreter?

I have yet to see good results from a 1st year scout program and they seem to teach the same things we do in our weekly program. We highly encourage scouts to take Swimming and FA their first year and the other 2 or 3 is based on interest. This allows them to complete requirements in 2nd and 1st class. Advancment is one of the methods and it should be encouraged but not dictated.  

16 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

One of the great advantages of *NOT* having your older scouts at summer camp is that it provides an opportunity for the the mid-level scout (maybe a 13-year old Star) to be acting SPL for a week and to get a taste of the kinds of leadership responsibilities that go with the SPL job.  

 

We don't know the context of this troop - a 13 year old Star trying to run a full Patrol Method Cooking summer camp that has 5 patrols is not a good way to learn how to be an SPL unless this troop is really adult run.

Well - does the troop need him to have a good summer camp? Being helpful at all times might mean helping the troop first in his mind. I always have an issue with people who accept inferences. Just ask - is this a problem? Being an SM is hard and communication is not always as simple as it seems. As SM I too would like my older scouts to help the troop during summer camp vs being on staff for the big picture but on an individual growth aspect I would do I can to help get them a role on staff that they wanted.

A few years back I had a chance to talk to one my 13yo scouts about switching from Patrol Method cooking to dining hall and here was his replay

- No way should we switch! Patrol Method cooking for a whole week teaches accountibilty and team work way better than a weekend camp out.

- Why?

- Because when we do a weekend campout someone in charge of cleanig a pot on a Saturday can easily just shove that pot into the patrol box and no one will know who didnt clean when it comes out of the box the following month. When we have a full week to do cooking everyone knows who is pulling their weight and their is a lot of group pressure to do your job right. This is where I findly figured out what responsibility really meant.

32 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

Am I the only person who thinks it's unconscionable that MOST BSA summer camps have eliminated patrol cooking in favor of mess halls where a surrogate mom fixes meals for the kids?

No your are not. Our troop is  patrol method cooking only. We were disappointed that most choices for summer camp were dining hall but we have learn to demand our right to bring our own food. This works in most states around us except for Michigan where their are health laws against this.

We asked the scouts to vote on dining vs patrol method cook. votes was 43 to 1 for patrol method. The one vote for for dining ahll was from the laziest scout I have ever met.

Tick Key is scout friendly and will give you a bulk rate if you ask. They can also stamp your logo or troop number on it for a smallish set-up fee.

We use tick keys

one option - Tell the SM you want to throw a retirement party for him - next month, Tell him how much you appreciate his time with the boys and invite all alum scouts that are still around and make sure it happens. Call a committee meeting 2 weeks prior and dont invite him, make plans and start the new role after month +1 day.

We dont allow the scouts to have phones in camp, they stay in the car. Before we go to camp the SPl talks about the no phone policy and always mentions one of the reason why is because we don't want first years calling home. So even if the older scouts sneak a phone they know not to share it.

I am really good at getting first year scouts to rat out scouits with phones, it only works the first year though

11 hours ago, fred8033 said:

So ... if you can have someone else work with your son, great.  BUT, don't penalize him.  If there is no one else and your son would be penalized, I'd sign off  

This is what I do as SM. My son is now a Life Scout and I do plan on doing his Scout Master Conference for Eagle although with one of my ASMs.

No adult leader should  ever instruct a Scout or a Scout Patrol if there is a competent boy leader available. Many adults don’t mind this too much because they really aren’t teachers at heart. The problem comes when they decide what the scouts need to learn or want to jump in at the end of the session and fill in what the boy leaders “forgot”. No way. The Scouts move on from instructional sessions to other activities without the adults “helping”. As Scoutmaster I am responsible for the quality of instruction, but I am more interested in Scouts doing the instructing than the instructing being perfect. So long as Scouts are getting instruction without limbs being cut off or someone being poisoned, I leave well enough alone.