Buffalo Skipper

Again, thanks to all for your excellent suggestions.  You have all given me new perspectives on this issue, and on other, closely related topics.  And yes, GWD, you have it right.  I don't want to lead the boys by the nose, but I need to get them started; that's really what all this is about.  And I do like your idea about the G2SS, I had never looked at the at document in that light.  I will see the we puchase a new one (I use the online one) so we can use that chart, and possibly hang it on the wall.

We had a PLC 3 weeks ago (new leaders) to plan the next 6 months.  We had some new ideas fly around, but mostly it was the same old stuff.  I was able to "inspire" them to consider some new locations for hiking that we had never done before.  This was met with some grumblings by another leader in attendance (observer, not participant), but without addressing those comments, I supported the PLC in what they wanted to do.  I think they appreciated the vote of confidence.  There is another PLC next week to finish the planning through April, and firm up things.  After that, they will meet on a regular schedule.

Our scouts have been completing requirements yet are lacking in skills. Changes in our troop are working to improve that now. One method I am working through the SPL to incorporate into the troop are patrol skill competitions. We are working on our knot skills, and we have a monthly contest, "The Scout Knot Challenge." This pits patrols against one another collectively tying a square knot, bowline, sheet bend, clove hitch, taut-line hitch, and two-half hitches in the fastest time. When all scouts improve their skills, we will employ a second recognition for individual time on all 6 knots. We also have started a tent pitching competition, taking the best time from each patrol for pitching a tent (one small benefit of using standard troop tents). These competitions teach teamwork, and leadership as well as actual skills. These times and "records" will be posted in the scout hut for all to see.

I am looking for ideas for patrols for other measurable scout skill competitions. I am hoping this will also boost patrol pride. (sorry Eamonn, I am not trying to hijack your post)

To more directly answer your first question, I expect (loosly) for a First Class scout to be able to use the skills listed in the T, 2 and 1 ranks.  We don't and will never retest in a BoR, which is why I want to work with fun competitions to improve the scout's ability to utilize and demonstrate these skills.

Our council enforces a policy in which a BALOO trained individual must be on the Tour Permit of any Cub Scout level overnight outing, whether pack or webelos den. Having taught both BALOO and OWL, it is what we deliver at the classes.

I pitch BALOO as the "administration of Cub Scout camping" for all Cub Scout leaders and OWL as the "hands on" training for Webelos leaders. In our district, we offer BALOO 2x a year and OWL once annually.

We had our council Wood Badge Feast this past weekend, and a great time was had by all! I wanted to add some detail to what I first discussed above a month ago.

Since 1981, we have had an annual Wood Badge Feast. Any and all Wood Badgers in the council, including participants in the currently active course who are still working on completing their tickets, are invited. We have a formation of Troop 1 by patrols, flag cememony, fellowship, a great meal, guest speaker, and presentation of awards.

We strongly promote all Wood Badgers in the council to complete at least one annual ticket, which is submitted and recoreded. At Feast, everyone completing an annual ticket receives a small engraved plate with the year. After 3 concecutive years, they are presented with a plaque on which they can mount their plates. We also give special recognition for completion of 10 concecutive years of annual tickets. Even those who cannot attend Feast often submit tickets every year.

We also (since 1981) have presented what is called the Silver Spade Award. It is given to a singular Wood Badger who has given the most to the council, district, unit and youth (not back to Wood Badge) in the past year; this person is selected by past recepients. We are on our 3rd plaque, which proudly hangs in the lobby at the scout office for all to see (it is the only plaque of recognition which hangs in the office).

For the Centennial Anniversary, it has been proposed that we Wood Badgers pledge to complete 100 tickets in 2010. This is not to replace out annual tickets, but in addition to them. So, if we have 100 Wood Badgers complete each one centennial ticket and their annual ticket, that would be 200+ items completed that year (in addition again to our Wood Badge course, which would complete an estimated 250).

I have heard people here and with other discussion groups speak of some scouters who may see Wood Badge as the end of the road. We see Wood Badge more as the beginning of the road, one in which we have pledged ourselves to continued service to last a lifetime. Not all Wood Badgers follow this path, nor do we expect all to do so. But as good scouters, we try to set the example for all those who choose to follow and those who choose to take the lead. I believe that this continued commitment is one of our council's greatest strengths.

Eamonn,

Sorry if you are taking what I was saying out of context. I was talking about things the BSA awarded posthumously, not describing Wood Badge as an honor.

As far as completing someone elses ticket. We were told that could be done. As a participant I didn't have a copy of the syllabus to police our CD to see if it was correct. Only relating what happened.

Our course had 100% ticket completion. One of our participants died before he had completed his tickets and the rest of the participants pitched in and completed them for him. His widow was presented his beads. Apparantly WB beads are one of the few scouting honors or awards which can be presented posthumously (but only on completion of one's tickets).

I cannot imagine a scenario in which a committed volunteer would be asked to leave.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

I would treat this the same way we would an Eagle BOR. That is as long as his MBs, 3 month tenure, and SM conference were completed before his 18th B'day, I see no reason the BOR could not be held after that date.

To be safe, however, I would ask of your District Advancement Chair, as expectations may vary from here to there.

FargoNDSR

Sorry, I do not have my CSLH with me, and I I have a campout this weekend. I will try to get you answer "from the book" by early next week. If anyone else can find this exact reference in the meantime, that would be great...(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Sheldonsmom,

I agree with you. I would love to have someone like that as an Instructor or Troop Guide. If he wants to to be that involved, then get him involved!

This is one of those instances when a Venturing Crew may be a good fit. It will allow him to continue to expand his horizons, earn other recognitions, and really share his knowledge with others. But, of course, I cannot speak for what programs are available in your area.

Eagledad,

Not condescending at all. I have tried, but I get the usual dribble: paintball, go-carts, or even the skate-park. Without meaning to insult our scouts, they are stuck in the rut. I don't want to accuse them of not having any imagination, but they really don't see outside of their little world. That is why I want to give them something about which they don't need to be knowledgable of or plan for themsleves. Our PLC is in 2 weeks, and I want to have several ideas to throw out for them. We have agreed to do something in early December.

"Voting member" is exactly a person officially registered with BSA as a member of the committee-MC (including Pack Trainer-PT- and Committee Chair-CC). It does not include Den Leaders or the Cubmaster, nor does it include non-registered parents. This is clearly stated in the Cub Scout Leader Handbook.

This "concrete" answer may spark discussion, but let me interject before this gets taken the wrong way. Whatever your Charter Organizaion Rep allows/encourages/facilitates should work. Our "pack committee" generally consists of what others would call a "leaders meeting," with parents invited (one or two show up at most every month). And yes, we meet the same day a week after Roundtable. We have a set agenda, and loosly follow parlimentary proceedure; anything is open for discussion (new business), and in 4 years, only once have we had the need to vote on anything. That was the purchase of a new Pinewood Derby track, timer and software--a large purchase; as we had been saving for years to purchase it, it was unanimous decision.

If things are going well with you pack, I can hardly imagine anything which would require a formal vote. If there are leaders demanding a vote, I only see that as a divisive tool and a danger to the pack's well being. If you have issues that require voting, look at why this is necessary. In my opinion, a well run pack should not have these kind of issues.

Great replies.

ASM11, we had a similar experience last year when our PLC organized a Webelos campout, but the month before had a dry run. They went to the same campsite, and had the youngest scouts pretend to be Webelos to practice. This also prepared the younger scouts to handle the next weekend. 5 of 6 5th grade Webelos crossed to the troop 4 months later.

OGE, I really really like your idea. I only wish we had a COPE course within a reasonable distance of us, which we do not. There is an incredible (indoor) climbing wall at the only area outfitter (actually in our neighborhood); it even has underhang to scale--truly top notch. Unfortunately, they charge a couple of fingers and toes for an hour of climbing.

We try to have lock-ins once or twice a year, but we always include all the troop.

One that I am considering is a daysail on the bay. I have strong connections to the boating community here, and I want to take the PLC out on a 40' sailboat for 3-4 hours. Not to teach them to sail, just to ride along and be as involved as they want to or not. I have someone in mind who used to be a cubmaster (25 years ago) and he has offered. http://heartofgoldsails.com/SeaMist04.JPG

Have any of you had an outing with only the PLC? I am trying to build some camaraderie amongst our leaders. I am not really looking for a leadership exercise, nor anything which is work. More, I am looking for a unique activity which is, first and foremost, fun. I am very open to ideas on this.

--We interrupt this thread for a minor hijacking--This past summer we went to Skymont Scout Camp near Monteagle, TN.  On the way we passed through South Pittsburgh, TN, home of the Lodge factory (and only factory outlet store).  I could not convince the other leaders to stop, even though it was only 5 miles off the freeway.  More curious, however, one of the CITs for the new scout program, is a member of the troop from South Pittsburgh, and it is chartered by Lodge.  He assured me that ALL their "car camping" cookware was cast iron. Some troops have all the luck...  Also related, Skymont has a daily Cast Iron Skillet Award (dates back some 20 years, and they are all hanging in the dining hall).  Any guess where they get these?--We now return you to your regular scheduled thread--

Our troop has 2 cast iron skillets, but it is up to the patrols to choose to use them, which I cannot recall that they ever have.  On the other hand, we have 4 dutch ovens which they use whenever the opportunity presents itself.  Our skillets probably need some attention, and I will look into that.  Cast iron certainly is better, if properly maintained.  Maybe we should encourage the use of our skillets more....

If you know someone that can get to a Military CLothing and Sales shop they have tan 3" strips.

That is where I got mine. I live in a Navy town, andI bought my 4" strips from the local uniform/patch/shop. They were willing to sell it by the yard. I paid $8.00 a strip and had to buy the hook separate from the sheet. I have used up my hookand need to buy more, but still have some loop left. I have been very pleased with this stuff, as it is high quality and a good color match for the BSA uniform. I have no need for the green on my Venturing shirt.

Do you mean like some powdered coffee creamer which would flare when you added it the fire? That sure would add some dramatic effect, but it should be handled carefully. (here I am being cautious and it was Boy Scouts which taught me 30 years ago that coffee creamer would flare...)

I am curious to hear anyone elses take, but that may be something we start doing. Can you offer any more about these "historic ashes?"

In our troop, our last 6 Eagles (over the past 3 years) have every one, had their BOR after their 18th birthday. We have another who will likely have is SMC this week, but he is just 3 weeks from his birthday; another (who is the SMs son) is at the exact same place, but his 18th is in February.

These boys are not pushed within the troop (and mostly not too hard by parents, from what can be seen), but neither, in the past 3 years, have we had a scout age out who did not finish as an Eagle. I am disappointed to have so many boys wait until the last minute, but I am proud that they all have followed through with it.

I have heard some leaders privately state the they are concerned about 13 year old Eagles (considering that we haven't had one within 5 years of that in recent memory, I don't get why the have their knickers in a wad about it). Nonetheless, never have I seen action which in any way held up or slowed down a scout's advancement.

For Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts I use the exact same rules, and I only have three

1) You may do nothing which hurts someone else.

2) You may do nothing which hurts yourself.

3) You may do nothing which damages or misues someone else's property.

If you follow those rules and apply the Cub Scout promise (or Boy Scout Oath and Law), I have yet to find a "wrong" which they can commit.

I do:

Canoing, Rowing, Composite Material, and Woodworking.

I have access to both a canoe and rowboat on property in the city limits on a local bayou. I spent a couple years working in a shipyard doing both fiberglass and woodworking. Easy to link these to boating. I would do Small boat handling if I had access to the appropriate sailboat, but I do not (yet!).

Remember, this is the post-9/11 military. At Fort Leavenworth, where I work, a Scout Troop needs a fair bit of front-end coordination to get on post.

I did some TDYwork at Pax River aseveral years back (the week after the Columbia disaster, if I recall). This is not an easy base to get onto. As a contractor, I had to be met at the gate by a supervisor with a signed letter from the military director over our operation. (I was issued a temporary 1 week pass, and even though I was there for 2 weeks, I had to repeat the processfor the second week of my stay.Having previously worked around largely open posts, this was a switch.)

Great area there. I can't imagine where you could camp, but my expose to the base was admittedly limited.

Local troops andcrews here regularlyworkwith/at the Army Ranger survival school at EglinAFB for Wilderness Survival camping. They assign us an area outside of where they are currently training and even provide instructors to assist when we like.

Good relations with the local base can really help out scouting programs.

I am interested in what you have to say about the Timberline 2s. At 36 sf, they should be fine for 2 scouts. To accommodate odd numbers, do any of you use T4s? And has anyone worked with the add on vestibule or annex fly?

We are considering the Mountainsmith Guardian right now. They are cavernous compared to the T2s, and Campmor has them on sale at $99, same as the Timberlines. Our outgoing SM has a Timberline 2 and our ASM has the Guardian. Maybe at the next campout, we could put 2 in the Timberline vs 3 in the Guardian and let the scouts decide.

As for the Spitfires, do you use them for non-backpacking campouts also?

We are really open on flys. I just looked at the one on Campmor. At 10x10 it is plenty large for us (we are averaging 6/patrol on most campouts). It is simple and yet versatile.

I am looking for some opinions on troop equipment. We have a troop which is about to (we hope) have a big growth spurt. Our tents are old and in need of being replaced (we have an old, discontinued Coleman model). We mainly "car" camp, but we do 2 or 3 backpacks and at least one canoe trip a year. We are looking for tents which are light enough for backpacking, at a reasonable price. Right now we are looking at Timberline 2s or Mountaismith Guardians, but we are open to other ideas. Each of these are just at $100, and though in our budget, we would like to spend less (we do not need 4 season tents). Ideas?

We are also looking into patrol tarps. Is there anything good out there we should be looking at? We want something more than a plastic tarp from Wal-Mart of Lowes, but again, we want to keep the cost down.

I tried to make a more ridid tarp from contracter tarps with 2x2s and 4 poles. It came out fine, but ended up being $70.00 and a real big hastle to put up. We may or may not keep this as an adult tarp, that may depend upon what else we find.

As was already said, this is not like an Eagle BoR. But it is absolutely necessary that the crew review (board) be a combination of adults and youth. This is, in part, a review by peers. In my experience, being reviewed by one's peers places more pressure on the candidate. Don't be surprised if the youth ask even more pointed questions than the adults.

Liz said, "some of our patrols have a tendency to choose menus based primarily on which one will require the least amount of clean-up". Remember Liz, a scout is thrifty!

Yes, but as Napoleon said, "An army marches on its stomach."

I have been impressed with our boys. They like good food, and most are excellent cooks (the fish tacos on the last campout were superb!). The only time I have ever had eggs in a bag was when I attended Wood Badge; they were fine and I would not discourage the boys from preparing them, but if they want scrambled eggs, bacon and dutch oven biscuits--let them have at it!

(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Two years ago, I wore my Sea Scout whites to the Pack Meeting. I was the Cubmaster, at the time, and I had quick stitched a Cubmaster patch to the sleeve. The monthly theme was Cub Scout Shipbuilders (I actually worked in a shipyard until the week before the meeting), but I used the uniform to really deliver a nautical theme to the meeting. We had probably 15 Bobcats at the meeting, and I had brought in a large board (plank) and a PFD for each new Bobcat. I talked about how the PFD is what we put on, not only to keep us safe, but also to prepare for the beginning of our Cub Scout years. Once prepared, each Cub walked the plank, and jumped off into their scouting future! The parents went nuts over it, and I believe it was one of the best meetings we ever had. I sure did get alot of questions from cubs scout and parents (including active and retired Navy personnel).

I agree with Eagle92. If you prepared to be recruited, wear your Venturing uniform and bring a pen. But like Beavah suggests, don't push the issue. Let them come to you and ask.

Don't wear a "blank" uniform--to me that is asking for trouble.