Buffalo Skipper

I am also a Pack Trainer, and on the district training team.

Generally, training is not required (unless your CO requires it), but obviously strongly encouraged. If he is a Tiger leader, explain that the program has changed since he was a leader (as it actualy has) and encourgage him to attend the new course. Remind him that it should be an easy refresher as he is already familiar with much of the program.

Our pack has always picked up the cost of all leader training as a way to encourage leaders to attend. Because of this, we expect to have 100% trained for the 4th straight year.

I think I can confidently say that the Seabadge will begin in the evening and will be preceeded by SSOST that afternoon.

I attended SR-28 and the SSOST before the course, as SSOST was not offered in my council at that time. We now offer SSOST at least 2x a year (and again for any new ship which is starting up).

TENTATATIVE UPDATE ON SEABADGE SR-33

This is unofficial and off the record, but it is the current "plan."

SR-33 will likely be held at in Marianna, Florida, Novmeber 14-16. Though not a seacoast location, the conference center is a top notch facility in every way.

Registration details will hopefully be out by early next week; cost has not yet been finalized. I will continue to keep updates posted here as they become available.

Thanks Stosh,

That pretty much clarifies the next question I had which was do the leaders wear what the boys do (which if everyone wears the same is a "yes").

If a Webelos den selects a (patrol) name, do the wear the (patrol) patch instead of the Den numeral strip, or both?

If some of the Webs are still in a blue shirt, do they wear the den (patrol) patch or the den numeral strip?

Questions my pack's Webelos leaders' are asking.

As the pack trainer (and the district coordinator of cub scout training), it has been a pleasure to have our 10 or so pack leaders 100% trained for 4 years now. We also face the same problem of reconciling the training records on file with the council. Our registrar is so busy at this time of year inputing thousands of new Cub Scouts that our training (we have 2 fall sessions for NLE and PST) usually gets filed away in some cabinet somewhere.

We do not have a council training committee, but I can say that at least half of our districts run excellent training programs (I am not slamming the other half, I simply don't have any knowledge of their training from 100+ miles away). Occasionally we run council wide training, and I have been involved in that from time to time. I don't see that happening to us (keeping my fingers and toes crossed as I bang my head on the solid wood desk...).

Mike, (sorry, I can hardly stop chuckling, and no I am not laughing at you but with you)

Irony can be so...ironic. But I am sorry to hear about that. Not to turn this into an "I told you so moment," but this is a problem which genuinely concerns me (at a level which goes beyond a Cub Scout Pack).

To update my situation, I kept it all clean, but I did add a remark about parental responsibility and commitment. I hope it did not fall on deaf ears.

We recruited 14 Tigers (and 2 leaders!), 7 new Wolves (and a leader) 1 Bear, 6 Web-1 (my new den where the other leader stepped down, and 3 out of five dropped with her) and 5 Web-2. We also have a great new Committee Chair, so we are looking at getting off to a great year!

In our council we have an annual Woodbadge Feast. Responsibility falls under the outgoing Program and Service patrols from the last course. For a nominal fee, we have a catered meal and great fellowship. Many Wood Badgers turn in annual tickets, and records are kept of concecutive years completing annual tickets; recognitino is given accordingly. We also hand out a "Silver Spade" award, to the Wood Badger who has given the most over time. The name goes on a plaque which hangs in the lobby of the scout office. I believe we have been handing recognizing this award for nearly 20 years now.

We have a new program director, and it took a little to get him on board. We will have our next one October 19. It has become a heartwarming tradition amoungst the Wood Badge community here.

I am on my district's training committee, and we certainly have nothing like that happening here. We have pretty good training program, and though not everyone is trained, we have a large enough percentage that there is little complaint from the higher-ups.

I cannot really believe they would enforce this policy. National/council attitude is so registration-number driven that following through with a policy would be like shooting themselves in the foot by cutting program.

That's not to say that training is not important or to disagree that everyone should be trained. I just cannot see this as a way to do follow through with it.

Our "Roundup" (we call it School Night for Scouting-SNFS) is a methodical, planned and choreographed event. It happens like clockwork, because, SNFS or Roundup is not about recruiting cub scouts, it is about recruiting cub scout Leaders.

We do a specific presentation, telling them about the pack our program and what their sons can get from the program. We then explain the importance of participation and then seek leaders for our new dens (or vacant positions). We do not handout youth applications until we have volunteer leaders for each (new) den. We had ours last night, recruited 30 boys, and 3 leaders.

It was, as I said, like clockwork. We had all the applications accepted with fees within one hour. We did such a good job of recruiting that withing 5 seconds of asking for leaders, 3 hands shot up with an "I'll do it!"

Easiest SNFS we have done in 5 years.

GW, that was perhaps the best description of this relationship I have ever heard, yet as scoutldr says, that is not always the way real world relationships work

With that said, if you do not go through your Unit Commissioner, then there is nothing which says you cannot speak directly to you Institutional Head or Charter Organizatinal Rep. Either of these people should listen very carefully if informed their representative heading the Pack committee was not doing anything.

To add (on a tangent) to what GW said, this should not be a matter for your District Executive. It should be dealt with on the volunteer level. Your DE is an administrator of program, not a manager of volunteers.

Finally, if I was minimally involved, and someone asked to replace me, I would jump at the opportunity. I can't really fathom what this CC is thinking (or doing).

I have taught BALOO in my district for 4 years. The BALOO material covers a variety of criteria to consider, but specifically states that Pack camping can take place only at council approved sites, so what they are saying makes little sense.

Commercial operators do not fall under the S2SS, which is about unit led activities. We're not talking about the Pack leaders operating the commercial ferry to the island. Look at the Safe Guide under the "Transportation Section" which does not restrict commercial transport of Cub Scouts, rather than the Aquatics Safety section. Part of this directly defers to the US Coast Guard Regulations.

I may be going out on a limb here, but as best I know, there are 2 locations under review right now, but no decision has been made. I am helping coordinate one of the locations, which, as I understand it, is being considered as a backup. I do not know the status on the "main" location, but that is in the hands of the regional volunteers. I will certainly spread the word as soon as a determination makes it my way.

Ok, that was better.

Lisa,

You put that very well. There are two groups. Our pack is a good example. 35 years ago, I joined this same pack as a Wolf. One of the boys who was in my den as a youth was the pack's Cubmaster 10 years ago, and is now the SM of one of the best troops in the area. The Cubmaster who preceeded me came from a scouting family. Her brother is on the SR board, and her father (age 82) is still a Cubmaster at the other end of the council. Her nephew is replacing me as Cubmaster. Our COR eagled in our organization's troop in 1954, and he has been active in scouting ever since, even serving for a time as District Chairman.

It is easy to quote the statistics "out of every 100 scouts..." but not everyone gets it. I like to use (a shortened version of) this, and I just finished making this year's adding machine tape/timeline, which I use as well. Both powerful tools when employed skillfully. But there must be someway to reach across without making it an us-and-them situation.

Mike,

Sorry if I wasn't clear on making my point, but I still support what you and Ohio Scouter said: having a quality program will go a long way toward keeping the boys intersted. But Karen sees the issue as well. There is a point when you are not "forcing" the boys to participate. As a parent, we must give direction, even when our children don't want it. That's what it is to being a parent.

Let's try that link again.

http://p418.org/Pack%20Handbook.pdf

Bob White, I guess that really depends upon you perspective. We have a pretty good crop of leaders in our pack, who do a good job of following BSA's Cub Scout curriculum. From my perspective (which is to say our pack's situation), I want to know how to reach the parents.We have our School Night this evening, and I am looking for a way to explain to the parents the importance of weekly participation without cramming it down their throat or ticking them off in the process. We explain it all clearly in our Pack Handbook, but that donesn't always mean they will take the time to read it. On those lines, we had a father sign his sonup last year (Wolf), took home a Pack Handbook, and when the mother read it called, wanted a refund and demanded to drop out, because for us to parent and teach her child once a week (den and/or pack meetings) was more than she was willing to commit to. View last year's handbook here:

Mike,

You are right. I do not use the work "stupid" at home, in my pack or troop, and I should have chosen my words more carefully. I think you and Ohio Scouter really get it when you say a good program is what works best to retain members. For everyone's benefit, let me go into some more of the background of what really happened with me.

In our pack, we have had one den which has had continually changing leadership. One leader as a Tiger, who stepped down and pulled out at the end of that year; another who stepped up for the Wolf year, and stepped down at the end of the year, and another who took over for the Bear year, and in April announced she would not be returning. Each year, when the leader left, so did 2/3 of the den, leaving only 2 or 3 to continue to the next year. Truth be known, all 3 leaders did an excellent job for the year, were dedicated, attended leader's meetings and met most every week. When pressed, the outgoing Bear leader said she was just frustrated that she planned program every week and only 1 or 2 boys showed up.

I was just stepping down as Cubmaster, and I offered to take over the this den (my son is 1 year older, not in this den), committing to stay through crossover, in 2 years. The outgoing Bear leader offered to stay as an assistant, but remained inactive over the pack's (light) summer schedule.

Yesterday, I received an email saying she had asked her son, and he said he did not want to stay in cub scouts. I certainly can understand why. But it got under my skin, because the reason his mother had such a bad time, was that only one other family committed to the being a member of the den and participating (probably because mom every week asked little Johnny: "do you want to go the meeting this week?" and Johnny replied "No."), and now she is doing the same thing.

Prehaps now you can understand from where I am coming with this.

Our troop is doing a bike trek/campout later this month(our ASPL works at a bike shop and is an avid cyclist). Certainly the nights and time would count toward the Camping Merit Badge, if under the direction of a qualified merit badge counselor.

Interestingly, requirement 9.b. requires to do 2 things out of 6 possible options.

Number 3 is : Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours.

For some troops in the south (without snow or mountainous activities in a reasonable range), this may be a pretty good option.

Thank you for your responses. First, Mike, yes, I made my statement harshly, and though I would never speak to a parent that way, I really was seeking a reaction from our group. I am not a confrontational person or leader, but I felt the forum was a safe place to "provoke" a reaction. Along those line, I would never force my son to stay in scouting if that was not in his best interest. One of my closest friends allowed his son to walk away at about age 14, after several years of finessing him to stay in the troop. He grew up to be a fine young man, and his dad stayed as a scouting volunteer for another 20 years.

As Lisa says, my frustration is with the parent who avoids accepting responsiblity for their child's well being. A child cannot learn from mistakes like these. It is our job as parents to make certain decisions for our children when they are young, and allow them more responsiblity as they mature and grow older. The Cub Scout-Boy Scout-Venturing program mirrors that system of "education."

But back to the original point of this thread. Without forcing our will on other parents, is there any way we can subtly encourage these parents to help their children make good choices? I don't want to step on toes here, but I do want to reach these boys, who in all likelyhood, stand to gain the most from scouting. How can we appeal these parents?

I have been working with the Council Commodore on this, but I do not have an answer or a specific location. I will post here as soon as I know (which hopefully will be within a day or two!). Until I hear back, I do not feel I can comment on the location or other information, other than to say it is an EXCELLENT course, and I would recomend this highly to any Sea Scout leader at any level of the program. Stay tuned....

Is this a joke? Sort of, but not really. I am trying to make a point here. Our pack has lost many good Cub Scouts this year because their parents asked them if they wanted to stay in cub scouts and they said no. I have had this idea to make a kind of flyer on this theme to (politely) express how stupid a question like this is for a parent to ask their 8 year old.

If you want to help with this, pass around some ideas. Is a flyer the best way to present this, or maybe a newsprint like story, passed out as the pack newsletter?

I would like to announce to everyone that my 5th grade son is dropping out of elementary school to attend a Video Game Academy. I asked him if he wanted to continue with his school, and he said "No." We talked about it and he thinks it would be more fun to attend a school for video gamers. I said sure.

After all, as a 5th grader, it is important that he make his own decisions--he is much more in touch with his needs than I am. Things have changed since I was a 10 year old, and I understand that.

So what does everyone think?

Our pack comes from a more affluent area of town. And we work hard to make cost a non-issue for those who cannot afford it. Our most expensive trip is to the battleship USS Alabama. They offer overnight stays for groups (mostly scouts), and the cost is 16.00 per person (not including food). Every child must be accompanied by a parent, so a minimum of $32.00 per father/son plus food.

Family camp (2x a year) is $15 per person for 2 nights. We also visit the Naval Aviation museum once a year, which is free, as is a downtown historical society tour, which we do every couple of years. We do most of our activities as a Pack. Our combined Webelos do another campout each year. We frequently go to the Florida Caverns and a Falling Waters, which has a 100' waterfall (the largest in Florida!) These parks have a more diverse geological base, as well as unique forest areas, so we ususally work on Geologist and Forester pins.

Barry,

Am sorry for the loss of your uncle. I can only imagine how difficult that is for your father not being able to come up.

I live right near the airport in Pensacola, and not 5 minutes ago, I decided that our airport must be closed (I worked in the aviation fields for 15 years), due to very gusty winds. The Mississippi coast is about half way from here to the center of Gustav at the moment, and their conditions are certainly much worse than what we have here.

I will keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers over the next few days, especially as Hanna does what she is going to do.