Eagle1993

• Program ran like normal, which was good
  • No cohorts or group requirements
    • Same experience.  Though, some scouts liked the cohort model from last year as it kept our Troop together all week.
• Some changes to food service, but not onerous
  • We patrol cook, so only impact was the elimination of 2 camp wide meals.
• The camp was somewhat short staffed
  • Main challenge was college aged Scouts as colleges had reduced tuitions for the summer
  • Also pay challenges with other businesses paying more and jobs plentiful
  • Same as was a nearby camp.  We also heard that many tourist areas are not getting the short term immigrant labor they did in past summers (partially due to Covid and impact on US consulates).  So, the tourist areas are hiring high school kids with better pay than camps.  Some private camps increased their pay substantially.
• Talked with leaders and most (like our unit) felt the virtual meetings were not a good replacement to move Scouting along
  • Agreed and had similar conversations.  I do expect virtual merit badge clinics may remain.
• All seemed to have found a way to meet during the pandemic and with CO's shut down
  • NOTE - none mentioned (including our unit) of any district or council proactive leadership on this 
• All units seemed to have lost some newer Scouts during the crossover and shutdown of Mar 2020 - June 2020, most have reached out to those Scouts but not much traction
  • We did as well.  They fall into two groups.  Young crossovers & limited engaged scouts (scouts that would attend 1-2 events per year).
• Many units are concerned for the health of the Cub Packs they work with
  • Some not meeting
  • Some are down 50%
  • Will be an issue on progression of youth in the program next several years
  • Universal concern ... we just talked about this last night with our adult leaders. We plan to start recruiting kids outside of Packs this fall to help increase our younger ranks.  We had a pretty long discussion and seemed to agree that there are kids out there that either did not join Cub Scouts or may have dropped and do not realize what Scouts BSA offers.  We have counted on Packs for years, but that may run into trouble.  
• Camp has a leader dinner on Thursday, would have been good to have SE there acknowledging the struggle is real with COVID and bankruptcy
  • Maybe acknowledging the future is charted but not 100%
  • Maybe thank the leaders not only for being at camp but also for in fact still being in Scouting and still working to bring the promise of Scouting to youth
  • A missed opportunity though not unexpected as the Senior Professionals on the Council seem to have a disdain for the lowly unit leaders
  • The Council President and Scout Executive from the council attended the dinner.  They thanked us and said they would answer questions about the sale of the camp.  
• The property was in decent shape despite not much use for the last year
• Scouts had a great time
  • 100% true for us as well.  Good to hear and a great break from a tough 2020 ... looking forward to the fall.

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

On the experience of staff, feedback is that at Philmont, which has about 1,500 - 1,800 seasonal staff, they were indicating that 2/3 of the staff are first year.  Lots of staff did not return and the "institutional knowledge" has not been passed on due to the pandemic gap.

What is typical first year percentage?

10 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

I bet you were at CFL? I was on staff ‘92-‘95. It is so very hard to see it go and for so little. My current council camp is Bear Paw. We have only done the dinning hall. The director is great. He was just hired as a DE, so chances are he will be the director for many years ahead. It is a good camp. My heart will always be at CFL, but my girls will know Bear Paw as their camp. my dad’s ashes will stay at CFL after the sale. So, it will always be a sacred space for me no matter what it becomes. Through coming to terms with the loss of CFL, I have learned a camp is mostly the program and rhe staff. The land may just be a memory. 

I was at CFL ... we started going there after going to LeFeber forever (then that was sold) and hating Long Lake (I know others like it).  We were at CFL for 2018 through 2021 and will miss it.  The staff and program was great.

We had a couple of leaders talk to someone from TFC about the sale of CFL.  Basically, it came down to a need to quickly get money and not enough time to make other plans for the camp to live on.  CFL was profitable for the council.  However, it also had a lot of grandfathered in equipment (toliets, plumbing, etc.) that would eventually need to be replaced and require a large amount of funds.  They had a $10M plan to upgrade the camp, adding in a family camp RV park on one side of the lake that would help pay for upgrades (dining hall, toliets, etc.) elsewhere.

They had Bay Lakes Council camp director there for our adult leader Steak Dinner.  Three Fires have partnered with Bay Lakes Council and Bear Paw Camp AND a council in Kentucky.  Those two camps will enhance their patrol cooking next year and will take on CFL's commissary procedures.  They will also interview CFL's staff and give them priority for hiring.  TFC will be looking to provide coach bus service to both locations next year.  (I'm out of Three Harbors Council).  I just registered our linked Troops (1 girl, 1 boy) for 1st week next year at Bear Paw, all patrol cooking.  I figure it may be a bit choppy but Bear Paw seemed a bit like CFL so we'll try it out.

My recommendation is to register soon for 2022.  The camps that close will funnel even more Troops to the remaining camps.  Prime dates/spots may fill up fast.

Just got back from camp. 30 scouts, 4 full time adults and a sprinkling of others.  300 scouts at camp.  
 

Shortages at trading post and of counselors.  The camp we attended was already sold due to bankruptcy but was being leased back this summer (for the price of our picnic tables).

Closing campfire ceremony was tough… singing a song about returning next year…

We visited Ed Bryant as a possible replacement but I wasn’t impressed so I think we are headed to Bear Paw next year.  We only do patrol cooking camps and those are getting tough to find.

I’d recommend locking in camps early as many will be sold, funneling in scouts to the remaining ones   

21 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

 

Our council has two camps and sent a survey asking members about them.  It sounds likely that one or maybe both would be sold.  Our up north camp was sold a while back.  

 

Us too.  Tight timeline to respond. We were told we will know by August.  They council was saying there are 19 camps in Wisconsin so no they can probably do with less.  Unfortunately every council is saying that and I’m currently at a camp that was sold (in Wisconsin).

3 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

When this is all over, we can get back to discussing red shoulder loops vs green. 

And how many rows of knots are appropriate.  

https://nypost.com/2021/06/18/boy-scouts-hoping-to-reach-summer-settlement-with-sex-abuse-victims/

Quote

“This amended Plan marks a significant step toward a global resolution of past abuse claims. It incorporates a number of updates following constructive mediation, which we believe will garner significant support for confirmation,” the spokesperson for the Boy Scouts said. “Importantly, the BSA is hopeful that this Plan, or one very similar to it, will have the support of a supermajority of survivors.”

No comment from the TCC or Coalition. 

A couple of good points I have seen in other online forums.

• This is not an approved plan.  It is simply an updated plan. 
• Kosnoff twitted an hour ago that he is currently reviewing all 387 pages, a lot of changes with new info.
• Some council connected individual has stated that there is no deal.  They went on to say that this is a proposal that they already gone beyond and there is a lot of stuff not being filed yet.  This individual has stated that everyone should wait for an official announcement.  

So ... it perhaps this is something BSA needed to get out to start a clock and get official feedback but it is likely not going to be the final plan.  

6 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I don't know about my fellows, but I felt pretty darn gut punched when I got up this morning. Not what I had hoped for or expected. More to be reveal, I suppose and then the insurance circus. I don't feel like the LC contribution is adequate. Not at all. The breakdown/breakout, if we see it, will be telling. I doubt more comforting, but informative.  

Looking at the plan, I think the survivors got the lion share of National BSA assets.  While National BSA appears to keep their HA bases, they gave up other restricted assets and took on additional debt to do so (including ongoing payments to the Settlement Trust).  I think this is pretty risky for National BSA, but it is what it is.

At the council side, I think you will have to wait to see the council by council settlement details.  It appears that the settlement is about 1/3 of the total unrestricted assets of all councils combined.  That said, some councils may be paying nearly 100% of their unrestricted assets (ours is actually looking to sell off restricted assets to pay for the settlement) while others may be escaping given low number of claims/risk.  All I know is that every camp in my area that my Troop & Pack have used is now either sold or being considered for sale.  

1 hour ago, 1980Scouter said:

Has anyone seen a breakdown of what each LC will be expected to contribute in terms of cash and property on the latest agreement? This would be a game changer to know which properties must go and how much each council much pay.

I am sure it varies widely depending on claims and council size, assets.

We should know soon.  I'm not sure if the status is a detailed look or a % of the total amount.  

Quote

The Debtors shall, concurrently with the filing of the Plan Supplement, file a report with the Bankruptcy Court concerning the status of the parties’ efforts to obtain contribution commitments from the Local Councils. In addition, the status report will set forth any required amendments the Debtors may propose to the Plan to facilitate the Local Council Settlement Contribution. The Local Council Settlement Contribution shall consist of: (1) at least $300 million of Cash to be paid on the Effective Date; and (2) properties with a combined Appraised Value (as defined below) of $200 million as described below (the “Property Contribution”) (provided that this $200 million aggregate amount shall be reduced on a dollar-for-dollar basis by any Cash payment amount in excess of $300 million).

Cyberchip requires the following:

1. Discuss with your unit leader the acceptable standards and practices for using allowed electronic devices, such as phones and games, at your meetings and other Scouting events.

So, it is a unit decision.  There is nothing in the Scout Handbook or Troop Leader handbook that I have ever seen that bans cell phones.  

Our unit allows cell phones for photos (and have for years).  We also added the option to use phones for scouting applications (such as looking up merit badge books, info, etc.) and weather reports.  It is a tool like a knife, rope, etc.  Each unit can have their own policy.

TCC & BSA appear to have reached a comprise over the restricted assets & HA bases.  

• BSA agreed to reduce the minimum amount of unrestricted cash/investments from $75M to $25M.
• Fund a $80M Note (which has the payment schedule I documented above)

So that is how they got to the ~$130M.  A loan with a payment schedule and selling off $50M of investments.

With this deal, HA bases will remain with BSA.  However, BSA will exist more in debt (add $80M to the JPM debt) and with far fewer assets (both at National & LCs).

Ok ... that loan to the settlement trust will be paid annually the total of :

$4.5M

plus $3.50 for every scout in BSA as of Dec 31 from the prior year

$50 for every scout that went to a HA base the prior year

$50 for every scout above the initial business plan excluding ScoutReach 

$150 for every scout going to a HA base above the business plan

Hmmm ... this looks to me, that BSA better not grow above their business plan.  IF they do, they will be paying a TON to the settlement.

10 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

EACH Council, or in the aggregate?

Aggregate

It appears BSA took out a loan from Arrow WV to help pay for the settlement.  
 

Local Counicls now must provide $300M is cash and $200M in appraised land.  
 

many other changes…

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/75cad6f2-cc34-4b0c-896f-0d26815b1189_5368.pdf

Revised plan have been filed.  Good time to start a new topic, see link below.

2 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Save the HAs at all cost, literally ALL costs? I guess that makes sense if they think with the new HA family camping and resort options the HAs will be year round money makers (BSA now in the resort business). But wow, that is a gamble.

They should have dumped Summit.

It looks like BSA may exit bankruptcy with no assets (including no endowment) other than 4 HA Bases and $500M in debt.  When they increase annual fees to $150 each scout (Scouts Canada numbers), realize that $75/scout is likely paying the interest on the $500M in loans.

1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

BSA previously provided $115M, so not its $250M. So where is the additional $135M coming from?  The only thing I could think is that National has agreed to give up on some restricted assets.  What is the most likely path to get to $135M incremental?  

What was listed as restricted: (https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/868464_1.pdf)

• $40M cash
• $70M LC Collateral
• $82M Investments
• $7M OA
• $63M All HA Bases
• $53M Donor Restricted Contributions
• $6M Misc Summit Assets
• $8M Annunity
• $345M Summit Note

Now these were the values as of 2020 some time.  They have been selling off their investments to provide cash.  I expect that $82M is way down.  Not sure about restricted cash.  However, the $135M could be generated without touching any of the HA bases.

Council number went from $425 to at least $500M.  I'll be curious to see if it is a council by council settlement or if there is an overall agreement for all councils if a certain number is met.

Actually... if you look at BSA's last monthly statement below.  Their Restricted Liquidity Balance is $135M.  They just increased their offer (per WSJ) by $135M.  I wonder if they are giving up 100% of their Restricted Liquidity ... it could just have been by chance these number match ... but I wonder if BSA is finding a way to keep their HA bases. 

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/2f5112e6-d8c5-4fe3-b63b-dab01932cba9_5180.pdf

4 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/boy-scouts-near-bankruptcy-deal-with-largest-victim-group-11623949286

 

BSA previously provided $115M, so not its $250M. So where is the additional $135M coming from?  The only thing I could think is that National has agreed to give up on some restricted assets.  What is the most likely path to get to $135M incremental?  

What was listed as restricted: (https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/868464_1.pdf)

• $40M cash
• $70M LC Collateral
• $82M Investments
• $7M OA
• $63M All HA Bases
• $53M Donor Restricted Contributions
• $6M Misc Summit Assets
• $8M Annunity
• $345M Summit Note

Now these were the values as of 2020 some time.  They have been selling off their investments to provide cash.  I expect that $82M is way down.  Not sure about restricted cash.  However, the $135M could be generated without touching any of the HA bases.

Council number went from $425 to at least $500M.  I'll be curious to see if it is a council by council settlement or if there is an overall agreement for all councils if a certain number is met.

Perhaps a minor look at the talks.

Century Request to Hold June 17 meeting

It appears the insurance companies are out of the loop and BSA/Coalition/TCC are working on a plan (Century states a non-consensual plan will be sought).

BSA also hired a law firm to handle their insurance companies.

Kosnoff is tweeting as if a plan is coming soon.  He is lowering the bar on expectations.

We freeze ours and they seem to last pretty well.

While GSUSA states girls sell their cookies, my past experience is that parents sell A LOT of cookies in the office.  I can't tell you how many flyers I see from parents.  With many working at home, I'm sure those office sales dropped way off.  

My daughter sold hers online but didn't go door to door so sales were down.  I like what our BSA council did for popcorn.  They created door hangers to allow Cub Scouts to go door to door without interfacing with adults and thus, avoiding the Covid risk.  Then people could call/contact the scout to place their orders.  It sounds like it worked well for the Packs who participated.

3 hours ago, yknot said:

I have wondered that as well. However, while many COs are poor, many are rich so I guess it would be worth it to drill down to that level in the long run. But that would take so much time. 

 

My guess is that Kosnoff is bluffing a bit… I have a hard time imagining lawsuits against a PTA for bake sale proceeds.   That said, I could see this turning into the asbestos lawsuits going forward that seem to be unending over the last decade.  As laws change or COs are found to have insurance coverage or decent assets they will be sued. 

2 hours ago, ThenNow said:

I realize this is not in the universe of the data set, but I'm curious if "we" will ever know how the claims break out all the way down to the Unit level. 

 

It could depend if they show by individual CO.  While there are large groups of COs, typically each local CO is a single unit (for example, xyz Elks Club would mean 1 unit).  

Kosnoff is making it clear that in addition to national BSA, local councils and insurance companies, he is looking at suing the BSA legal team for malpractice (I guess that they spent too much and some of the fees should go into the trust) AND every CO he can.  He just mentioned ... "large and small churches, civic orgs, VFWs, Elks, Eagles, PTA's ad infintum."

So ... if this is shown at the individual CO level, that essentially gives you the unit look as well. 

This does not seem common from my experience; however, it did happen to my Troop as a youth shortly after I aged out.  A new COR for our Troop decided to take our Troop funds and put it in their general fund.  Any money we would need would then need to be approved by the Church.  Any fundraiser would go to the commingled fund. Many of us had scout accounts and it was the only way many afforded to go to camp or BWCA.  Those were taken. Our Troop disbanded within a year. 
 

Here is a FAQ for BSA’s fiscal policy. 

https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Fiscal_Policies_and_Procedures_for_-BSA_Units_20210513.pdf