Eagle1993
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Posts posted by Eagle1993
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1 hour ago, ThenNow said:
Open or closed state? If closed, is there looming SoL reform on the horizon?
Does your council have many assets? I guess I am wondering what's "large" compared to the asset base, but suppose it doesn't really matter.
I presume this is being dictated by National? It could also be their attorney, I'm sure.
We are a bit of a mixed state. No look back window. Some are pushing, but the leaders who previously support d reforms are not answering questions. The Catholic Church is fighting hard against changes as are private schools.
Council has two camps, one worth $2M and one worth $1.5M along with a scout shop in the $1M range. I expect a camp will be sold even though listed as restricted.
NDAs. They said the leadership signed NDAs which means they can only share what is public info. They did say the $450M is not equally spread across all councils and councils in better financial health (such as ours) are expected to pay more (there are other factors as well).
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This is a copy of the judges final statement today.
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During our council townhall, they indicated that our council will have to pay a sizable amount to the settlement.
- That yes, that is a change from the initial announcement.
- The contribution is going to be large, it will hurt, but we will still be able to survive.
- They cannot say the estimated amount at this time, but will when they are allowed.
- They cannot say if camp sale(s) will be required nor how that would be conducted.
- That they have a very good law firm that is working pro bono for our council.
- The council leadership is meeting multiple times a week.
- In 2020 ... our council ended in the black (barely) which is better than most councils.
I was impressed they were open (as much as possible).
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If she wants to fast track this, I really think she needs to simplify the bankruptcy. There is no way to fast track a resolution where most councils see limited number of in SOL cases and will be willing to give up the billion+ of assets. COs have not gotten involved and the insurance situation is complex. Add in the DOJ objection and I see no way a fast solution can come if you include councils.
Perhaps she lets the global plan go to a vote, see it rejected and accepts the Toggle Plan (but stays the Hartford settlement and decision on HA bases). Those could be litigated after BSA exits bankruptcy. I don’t see another path if she holds to her word that she won’t let the BSA end as we know it.-
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One quote from the judge from today’s hearing.
"To solicit a plan that has no abuse survivor support is not an attractive option. But neither is engaging in protracted litigation that has the potential to end the Boy Scouts as it currently exists."
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37 minutes ago, MattR said:
I understand that part. It's the evidence I'm wondering about. What's the proof that the BSA accepted false claims, given that they did complain about the intake process.
No evidence ... however, I do believe Century requested Discovery from BSA and others.
QuoteBy offering holders of Abuse Claims $1,500 to vote in favor of the Global Resolution Plan, the Debtors hope to leverage the favorable votes of the many holders of illegitimate claims, thereby creating a voting majority and overpowering the opposition voiced by holders of legitimate claims of higher value. And while this maneuver would engineer literal compliance with the code, it betrays the Debtors’ true intention—to ram through a plan that is not proposed in good faith by manipulating the voting process. The Court should preclude the use of such tactics.
QuoteThis is vote buying of the worst kind. Holders of legitimate Abuse Claims are unlikely to settle for $1,500. The $1,500 payment is thus obviously intended to induce holders of illegitimate claims to vote in favor of the Global Resolution Plan—thus providing them with money to which they are not entitled and providing the Debtors with enough votes to push through a plan that would otherwise lack sufficient support for confirmation.
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15 minutes ago, ThenNow said:
Sorry. My brain is racing as I continue waiting for access to the hearing. Now pushed to 11:15 ET.
I think it's essentially that. "We (Century) gave you all this 'evidence' of problems and you did nothing. You must want them to remain for a reason or you would've supported us, right?!"
Apparently they broke zoom.
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Moved the discussion about BSA youth protection vs society and other programs here. Let me know if you need any comment moved back to the main CH11 thread. Thanks!
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42 minutes ago, ThenNow said:
I just don't get the point, relative to the Chapter 11 and the claims filed.
I'm going to quickly lock the thread and create a new topic. I think the discussion is valid and has been courteous ... but isn't directly linked to the bankruptcy discussion. Plus, we have 2 - 3 separate discussions going on here and it is a bit confusing. Will unlock shortly.
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This thread has most of the info in this article. That said, some quotes from BSA including this one about Century Insurance.
QuoteMeanwhile, the BSA took aim Monday at one of its biggest insurers.
“We are deeply disappointed that Century Insurance Group, the insurer to which national BSA and local councils paid hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of decades, is refusing to contribute its due to the trust or participate in mediation in a meaningful way,” the BSA said. “Instead of working cooperatively to reach an agreement to compensate survivors, Century appears to be engaging in tactics calculated to slow down the legal process.”
Note that Century has accused the BSA of allowing thousands if not tens of thousands of false claims to remain on the books. Their belief is that BSA wants the false claims as those individuals are more likely to take the $1,500 payout and vote yes to their plan. Century said BSA is buying votes of false claimants. So, Century wants to pause this until the claims are vetted.
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Well... LDS just served the BSA. This relationship has soured
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1 hour ago, Muttsy said:
Finally, why would anyone vote for the toggle for the privilege of putting BSA back in to business for no money?
Welcome to Scouter.com.
The BSA would absolutely prefer the global resolution plan. It provides protection for their LCs and COs. The issue is that the claimants do not believe the offer is close to enough to give the liability waivers.
Why would anyone vote for the toggle? Well, technically BSA is not even looking to get the toggle approved by claimants. They are asking the judge to enforce it through a cram down if the global plan is rejected.
There are a lot of moving parts. Hopefully some come to a resolution tomorrow during the hearings.
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1 hour ago, MattR said:
How is that possible?
If you look at National Only ... proceeds from liquidation would be $497M.
- Then liquidation fees (lawyers, wind down costs, etc.) would be $48M
- Secured claims (JPM + Pension Termination Claim) would be $337M
- Employee and professional claims would be $69M
- That results in $42M for everyone. BSA predicts Abuse claims would be $36.5M best case.
If you look at Councils ... proceeds would be $1.8B (that assumes 0 sales of restricted land and a 60% return on unrestricted) ... essentially, that in a flash sale, you won't get much value. Asset Value is actually $4.0B for LCs.
- Then liquidation fees (lawyers, wind down costs, etc.) would be $210M
- Secured claims (JPM + Pension Termination Claim) would be $1.14B
- Employee and professional claims would be $11M
- That results in $445M for everyone. BSA predicts Abuse claims would be $405M best case.
So, National is offering over $100M >> $36.5M if it were liquidated. Councils are offering $450M > $405M if they were liquidated.
This is per BSA numbers. This also assumes >$1B goes to the Pension Fund ... which I know is being debated.
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46 minutes ago, fred8033 said:
So six months to negotiate an agreement before trial ... or during trial ... or wait for end of trial.
This could be easily a year out.
I expect the high adventure bases (and other restricted assets) could take years. Even after that initial trial November 17th ... there will be appeals. I do hope that after that trial, it may then allow a negotiated settlement afterward ... though parties may wait until after a round of appeals. I don't plan on knowing if the HA bases remain within BSA until the end of 2022. We have decided to not go to BSA HA bases in 2022 and 2023 given the risk.
Note that I expect similar battles at councils. The most valuable camp in the entire BSA appears to be this gem.. https://alpinescoutcamp.org/ ... estimated to be worth $175M and is listed as restricted. I expect a battle.
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More interesting tidbits. The BSA also included a possible liquidation analysis for 100% of local councils. Essentially, if the court agrees that all local councils would be liquidated if National must liquidate.
The BSA is showing that essentially, the abuse claimants would get <$400M total between National and all LCs if the entire BSA was liquidated. That is their best case.
So BSA is saying their current offer is better than what would be provided if the entire BSA is liquidated.
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Some other interesting numbers from BSA's plan.
Global Resolution estimate for # of youth members
- 2021 1,050,000
- 2022 994,000
- 2023 978,000
- 2024 984,000
- 2025 1,011,000
Toggle Plan estimate
- 2021 1,032,000
- 2022 911,000
- 2023 859,000
- 2024 866,000
- 2025 916,000
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31 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:
Questions:
Is there agreement or a bench decision which assets are restricted?
Does this new plan answer the pressing question of how much money/assets are committed to the Trust? It seems a potential pool of local council assets and insurance policies and good luck fishing.
If the motion to send this third plan out for a vote is denied, how will the exclusivity deadline be effected?
Schedule appears here... this will take the rest of the year, perhaps longer.
May 28 - Disclosures due
June 30 - Document Prodcution
Jul 30 - Fact Discovery cut off
Aug 20 - Expert Testimony Discovery
Sept 24 - Expert Discovery cutoff
Oct 8 - Dispositive deadline
Nov 17 - Witness list
Nov 17 - Pretrial Conference
TBD - Trial
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Per shared document... looks like updated HA base valuations.
Philmont value... $153M
Sea Base... $29M
Northern Tier ... $8M
Summit Note $43M
The note from Summit is over $300M but they appraised Summit and looked at note and it’s value is only $43M.
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1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:
Here is the file with all council assets detailed by the BSA. It also includes camp by camp value plus details how many claims are NOT time barred. Just search any council.
BSA - Proposed Amended DS (omniagentsolutions.com)
There is a ton of info in this document. It includes a plan to continue to increase fees through 2025. Focus on increasing online programs for Cub Scouts. Targeting girls to increase membership. No Jambo in 2022. Financial data, etc. even those not interested in bankruptcy could find some info regarding the future of BSA.
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Here is the file with all council assets detailed by the BSA. It also includes camp by camp value plus details how many claims are NOT time barred. Just search any council.
BSA - Proposed Amended DS (omniagentsolutions.com)
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8 minutes ago, ThenNow said:
Based on the TCC's town hall last week and the new fairly oblivious filings over the weekend, I see no evidence, smoke signals or cloud formations indicating there is any prospect of a pending mediated settlement. I supposed there is always a very, very remote possibility, but I highly doubt it.
I tend to agree; however, it does seems like the NY mediation was better than Miami. The TCC in their townhall was almost offended from the Miami interaction, but seemed more positive about NY. I don't expect it before May 19th, nor did they indicate they were close ... but perhaps they are making progress. One could hope.
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34 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:
How will the LC's feel about being put into such a vulnerable situation?
Not good. But there may not be a choice. I'm sure BSA would love to provide protection to the CO/LCs ... but if the plan is rejected (either by the judge due to the long list of issues or votes) ... The only likely path is a National only settlement.
Also, I am interested in the judge's take on the DOJ objection. It seems like the bankruptcy trustee from the DOJ believes that no settlement can be allowed legally that provides protection to COs or LCs (as they are non-debtors). I hope to learn more during the May 19th hearing.
Chapter 11 announced - Part 3 - BSA's Toggle Plan
in Issues & Politics
Posted
I wasn’t on the call, so it’s tough for me to know. He quotes keep bringing up her desire to save the BSA. (I don’t think any judge would want on their record the elimination of one of the largest youth organizations in the USA.)
She also wants victims to be compensated fairly.
Right now, no plan does both.
I would be fine seeing the TCC plan ... perhaps that is her decision. I know she is hoping for a negotiation, I just don’t see that happening until she makes some rulings.