Eagle1993

5 minutes ago, RobertCalifornia said:

When should a claimant receive the court mailing?  I’m on my own without an attorney and I have not received anything yet. I thought October 15 was mentioned somewhere. 

I missed the TCC meeting. I hope they post the video today. 

 

I only caught a small portion but I believe that they said they are going into the mail this week.  So I would expect you see this next week. 

Going to lock this topic a bit to so some cleaning.  Looks like we went way off of the Michael Johnson discussion.  I'll move some of the comments and others may just hide (no offense intended).  

Ok, I moved a couple of posts.  Others that were not on topic I hid.  I was a bit heavy handed as the forum feeds are filled with this one single topic and many points were just quick back and forth messages that were not necessarily on topic.  This isn't bad, it just makes it difficult for those who are attempting to keep updated.  If you want, you can spin off new topics in our forums.  

If you had any posts that disappeared that you think should reappear, just let me know.  I can spin them into new topics if you like.  Thanks!

Pretty major development in a different Judge Silverstein case.

She just tossed out 16,000 votes out of the talc injury bankruptcy as the law firm failed to do any diligence to determine if claimants who they submitted ballots for had been exposed to talc products produced by Imerys.

https://www.law360.com/delaware/articles/1430779/judge-tosses-16k-talc-claimant-votes-in-imerys-ch-11

This is where we may run into issues with the claim aggregators.  If discovery shows that claims are coming into question into certain lawfirms and those lawfirms do not confirm the claims are valid ... it could impact voting.

"In order for master ballots to work, great trust is placed in the plaintiffs bar," Judge Silverstein said.  "With respect to Bevan & Associates, the evidence shows that such trust was not well-placed."

Edit:

When I think of similarities to BSA ... it really goes to the validity of the mass tort claims.  Did those law firms do any sort of confirmation of the claim?  Are they simply racking up thousands of claims to put on an excel spreadsheet so they can collect large fees?  Silverstein has shown in one case she does not ignore evidence of law firms lack of due diligence, I would expect the same here.

I was reading into the package again.

1) The Coalition is expecting a direct payment from BSA of $18M if the agreement goes into effect in March ($16M in February).  This is on top of the 30 - 40% they will get from their claimants.  I really hope the judge denies this.

2) There is a footnote.  The Coalition & FCR agree with the TCC that the BSA estimation of claims is wrong (page 433).  They just believe it isn't worth fighting anymore.

19 hours ago, PACAN said:

Lots of info to try and digest.

Question though:  Are the amounts required from the councils locked in concrete?  Seems like that could blow up and be reopened.  

Thanks to those who continue to track this.

 

If the current plan is approved by enough claimants and the judge confirms it then it is locked in.  The earliest we can probably say it is locked in is end of January or early February next year.  
 

To be clear ... someone has the data to calculate the 50% number.  I think all that is being asked is some additional details behind that number.  If forum members here didn't care, they wouldn't even be posting comments.  

If there are further details, it may spur discussions on what actions can be taken that protect scouts while still maintaining the program.  For example, MJ mentioned vetting older youth ... what does that look like, how would we do that  and what are the impacts to youth & the program.

Just a high level number doesn't help that much other than to raise these questions.  More details would really help us understand the situation further.

7 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

I am of the belief that 50% statistic includes a large percentage of curious exploration and 'show me' behaviors, which, when done in an adult to youth setting is definitely coercive and abusive, may be nothing more than that curiosity between youth of the same age.  I would agree however, when it is a much older scout with a young one, that is different, and I would include those interactions in the definite abuse category.  That is why even before it became BSA policy to not allow youth to tent together if they have more than a 2 year age difference we nudged them in that direction any way (not hard to do, as most older scouts prefer to either tent with someone their own age, or in many cases, prefer to tent alone.

 

I agree with you & @Eagledad's comments.  To me, this one should drive BSA to release more details.  If this includes a lot of minor non abuse incidents then less concerning.  There is more grey area with youth than there is with adults and youth. 

If this means 50% of CSA is older kids raping younger youth then that is a completely different story.  While the tenting rule helps, there are still many cases where an older scout will be alone with a younger scout.  

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

We got Mr. Johnson's side of why he left, the rest we knew or strongly suspected.

I want hard evidence of that data.  At the very,very least, a release of names and contact information of the NEC and National Executive Board (as of when he left would give us a start). 

I completely agree.  Many of us have added our own safety requirements on top of BSA's in terms of youth protection ... so some of what he said was not surprising.

The two areas I was surprised was that 50% of the abuse are done by youth and known abusers are in the BSA. 

I knew that was a growing concern, but if someone were to ask me a week ago, I would have guessed 10%.  Honestly, that was the point that scared my wife.  She knows the rigor we apply YPT to other adults ... but knowing half the assaults' are done by kids was a bit of a wake up call.  

The other is known abusers are in the BSA.  That one needs specifics.  I'm struggling to accept that one.  I hope it isn't true.

2 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

So, having slept on it...

Does Johnson's presser yesterday affect anyone's thoughts on remaining affiliated with BSA until more of these changes are manifested?

Over the years, I have become more aware of how the BSA "professional" side operates, and have grown more and more uncomfortable with their modus operandi.  Johnson's revelations yesterday only confirmed my interpretations of negative experiences accumulated.

I think my frog may be boiled, and, as we are nearing recharter time, I'm wondering if the thing to do is to decline renewing my BSA membership...

Anyone else struggling with this?

Yes.  My wife told me yesterday she will have a hard time letting my daughter join Scouts BSA.  My daughter dropped out of Cub Scouts due to various conflicts and lack of girls in the Pack, but we always talked about her joining Scouts BSA. 

I also talked with an ASM and as a Troop we may start ignoring the 72 hour rule.  (We already require YPT).  We may require any adult who wants to spend the night with the Troop to register as an adult leader.  

Finally we started having 1 scout per tent during COVID.  That may continue.  

Looks like the TCC removed themselves from the claims aggregator discovery.  I found that a bit interesting.
 

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/614bb955-d899-44d5-a2f7-3f995b92f932_6589.pdf

Looks like a great trip!

1 minute ago, vol_scouter said:

QUIT ATTRIBUTING WORDS TO ME THAT I DID NOT SAY!!!

He did a fine job with Youth Protection and was a champion.  In my discussions with him, he did not understand that the experiences in the Scouts BSA program were to build character so he had difficulty in understanding what elements needed to be retained with a new way to protect youth rather than cutting it.  It is not an excuse.  I was the one advocating external academic researchers to continuously study the program.  I agree with outside observers and did not say otherwise.  You do not have the only valid viewpoint.

Thank you for contributing and sharing this info!  I really think having external CSA experts with experienced scouters working on change is a great approach.  There are aspects of the program that are critical.  External experts may not realize that so hopefully they can help provide solutions within the framework of the program.  I could imagine that is a tough balance at times.

https://www.umc.org/en/content/umc-leaders-share-important-information-for-churches-sponsoring-scout-troops

1 hour ago, skeptic said:

Some of you must be really good with knot tying, and even better with splicing with the way you twist things to make yourselves seem the only ones with valid views.  And yes, while this is regarding BSA, the issues extend beyond them, and if that is not important to you as well, then you need to step back and reexamine.  Your inuendo and often insulting responses is juvenile and very narrow, as well as hints at actual vengence.  Please do not embarrass yourselves further.

The many speakers did talk about other organizations.  However, they emphasized that BSA is a higher risk organization for youth because you have men taking young boys for extended overnight outings.  They also said that older youth (15-17) is the age when pedophilia begins.  BSA should be screening older youth more for those risk factors.  They also said boys are taught to be tough and many times boys translate that to being silent.  Finally, the pedophiles are known to utilize religious aspects of organizations to harm children.  So, the BSA is a mix of these that makes them much more risky than most youth serving organizations and why they need to do more than other youth organizations.

They also compared BSA to what the Olympic committee is doing.  One expert said in 2010 he was excited as BSA was one of the 1st to hire an outside expert.  Now BSA is going backwards and the Olympic committees are doing a much better job (BSA should copy some of their actions).

So, I think you are correct there are societal aspects of this, but BSA is now falling behind and it needs to be way out in front given its risk factors.

@ThenNow ... could use your magic

https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-boy-scouts-head-of-abuse-prevention-says-group-is-still-unsafe-for-kids-11634066497

12 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

I watched as well, and that is not at all how I interpreted that comment.  I took it to be a response to not signing the NDA, and not talking about the problems he feels have not been dealt with adequately, not that someone at BSA tried to tell him not to cooperate with a discovery request.

 

I watched as well, and that is not at all how I interpreted that comment.  I took it to be a response to not signing the NDA, and not talking about the problems he feels have not been dealt with adequately, not that someone at BSA tried to tell him not to cooperate with a discovery request.

 

What MJ said was that the BSA told him that he could not talk about the BSA to anyone unless it was required under a subpoena.  He said no one would ever tell him when & where to speak ... which is why he didn't sign the NDA nor the other agreements. 

Interesting ... he defends the IVF.  He said there is a really good argument about having these files and using them to protect kids.  However, there are some issues and there should be disclosure & more done.

He said that many volunteers & professionals pushed him for changes.

He came out due to the upcoming disclosure & the fact he didn't sign a NDA.  Said he is fed-up with the organization on what he is allowed to say.  He said he didn't spend 40 years of his life to protect kids to have anyone tell him what he can and cannot say.  

He called Jeff Anderson as he is not afraid of the BSA.

This is devastating ... Mosby should be walked out today.  It is not just MJ ... there are others coming out right now. 

Edit:

To be fair, I was never a Mosby fan and thought he was a poor Chief Scout, so I would have walked him out a year ago ... so that may influence my opinion.

America needs the ideal of scouts BSA & every kid should participate in scouting.  If you know me, it is not about ending scouting.  We need oversight that is independent to make scouting safer.

He mentioned scouters ... you know me, I want scouting to continue, it just is not safe right now.

Interesting ... he has others that worked for BSA with him.... so he is not alone.  That would be tough when there are multiple people who worked for BSA reforms.

ALSO WOW, BSA withheld findings from him while he was in his role.  If that is true ... that could be criminal.

7 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Comment: "They [BSA] pushed him [Johnson] out."

Yep. He was fired/terminated. And that will be what BSA will run with: disgruntled former employee.

My issue ... who did they backfill him with?  Who is the director of youth protection that took over?  I can't find one.

4 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

How many sexually abused scouts are you OK with, in other words, in order to preserve the status quo?

I don't think every argument has to go full tilt.  If the expectation is 0 abuse, then end 100% of all youth organizations.  That is likely the only way 0 abuse will be achieved.  So, clearly, any time there is a youth serving organization, there is risk of abuse.  The key is to understand what mitigations can be executed while still preserving the goals of the organization.  I think the questions are valid. 

How & when did the abuse occur.  What other mitigations could have been in place to prevent that abuse?  Lack of training, better screening of volunteers, tenting policies, etc.  I think there could be other answers outside ending Scouts BSA.

That said, I was surprised to hear over 50% of the abuse was caused by other youth.   I expect we could make changes to reduce the risk.  We would need to know more details to really understand mitigations.  I tend to agree that splitting Scouts BSA into two separate age groups could help; however, it could still be worked around (dual meetings) and also negatively impacts scouts.  So, I would look for other mitigations first.