HashTagScouts

Do we need NS telling us where to go to get custom patches for events, custom neckerchiefs, custom t-shirts? No, there are numerous options out there that can do this, and for better pricing to us.  Do I need a Scout Shop to carry sleeping bags, tents, etc.? No, I probably have brick-and-mortar as well as online options where I can get quality items at a better price.   Do I need to buy my Lodge cookware from a Scout Shop? The DO lid looks nice with the embossed Scouting scene on it, but I'd rather save my unit $15 buying the generic Lodge DO from Walmart.  

The philosophy on $ spills over to other areas as well.  While the Council merit badge college looks great, do I need my parents to spend $30-$50 to send their kids there? I can run MBs or bring in others to do them for zero.  The run to "family camping" as the interpretation of what is meant by "family Scouting" scared me, as I just see that leading to more and exclusive reliance on car camping, or we have to have the troop trailer with us.  More carrying capacity leads to more stuff, more stuff leads to more expense, and more time spent on maintenance to upkeep said stuff, plus more space to store said stuff.  Get me out in the woods with my 1 person tent, my sleeping bag, a change of clothes and my mess kit and I am happy for a weekend.  Dragging the half-barrels, the Camp Chef stoves, the 20 lb propane tanks, the folding chaise lounge chair- I'd rather stay home half the time than spend hours dragging that stuff all over creation.  

2 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Now you are into National Supply which is another whole deal.  

My council has generated a CSP for the summer camp.  I was at the office and went to the Scout store, but had to buy the CSP at the program desk.  Seems that (in our council) the large Scout Shop is not the council's deal, but is National Supply run.  The folks who work there are not part of the local council, but are National employees.  My assumption is that National Supply pays rent to the local council for the footprint.

Now, when I realized this, I wondered what the overhead for this must be for National.  The footprint in my council is probably 2,000 SF.  Assuming 2 staff for 8 hours - 6 days per week and rent, just the overhead would be easily $150K annually.  Assuming a profit of 10% on sales, that would mean the store would need to generate $1,500,000 annually or $600 in sales per hour every hour the store is open (assuming 6 days per week and 8 hours per day) JUST TO COVER OVERHEAD.  Also I am likely under estimating overhead and over estimating profit.

National Supply should have everything on-line.  With one DC you could greatly reduce inventory and have a higher fulfillment rate for scout uniforms ordered on-line.  The local council could have 100 SF of shelving for the patches and awards.  

Most clothing items, whether buying from your local Walmart or Macys, has at least a 50% markup over wholesale.  The whole model with National Supply is slated toward max return (it is completely a business for BSA, not a service).  Our council shut down running a "trading post" at the council office- we have two NS run stores that are outside the borders of our council, but are just conveniently located in adjacent towns from either end of the council.  If a council wants to carry items, NS sells to them at a price point they create, such that they are making $, and also controls the retail price that the council sells the items for to you and I.  The same would be true for any third party retail outlet.  So, for example, a pair of the green Thorns hiking socks at retail is $15.99.  NS probably pays $3 to the manufacturer per pair.  They'll sell them to your council or third party for say $10.  Your council/third party is required to retail them at the same $15.99 NS does, so you can't undercut their business.  

I have such problems with NS.  The NS store closest to my area will only sell uniform shirts that they have sewed the purple World Crest and CSP to.  So you pay for the uniform shirt, the World Crest badge, and the CSP, plus a $5 sewing fee.  The manager there refuses to sell the uniform shirts any other way.  I say it is extortion to those who are looking to purchase a new shirt because their kid grew a size and would normally just move their patches from the old uniform to the new.  I contacted NS that they need to step in, this manager has no right to refuse to sell me a shirt without these items.  I got a "we'll look into this matter" - 5 months ago! Nothing in this store has changed.  So, I boycott them.  I travel for work, and visited Scout shops in Florida and Connecticut, both run by NS- the managers there never heard of such a practice.  The local council shop in adjacent council will sell me whatever I want, and charge me actual USPS costs to mail to me.  Purely on principal I'd rather pay the $1.50 postage for USPS on that pair of socks, let that council make some $, than give this manager the satisfaction of padding his sales figures or give NS $7.50 shipping & handling they would charge if I bought online through them.

14 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Councils will need to shed assets.  Ideally, shed office buildings to save money

• Ideas
  • If offices are needed, put those offices on "camp" properties.  
  • Move as much of operations "on-line" as possible.  Most is already there.  
  • Re-partner with "Walgreens" or another vendor to sell scout shirts again.  
• Pros
  • Save money on facility, staff, etc
  • Pro - moves money from offices buildings to "camp" properties.  
  • Promotes using the camps.  
  • Re-emphasizes BSA is an outdoor program.  
• Cons
  • More distinace for some people.
  • Fewer meeting locations.
  • Negatively affect perceptions of "careers" as BSA staff.  But this could be good too.
• Reasoning
  • Councils are now losing revenue from national for renting scout store space and paying national employees
  • Vast majority of scout parents never use the council "office" buildings
    • Most advancement is almost fully online
    • Eagle paperwork is almost ready to be fully online.  Or, could be fully done at district level.
    • Shopping is now mostly online.  Most importantly, shopping now does not contribute rent to council offices
    • Rechartering could be fully done online.  
  • Too much time is spent in-city office areas.  
  • BSA is program is structured around the outdoors.  Let's re-emphasize it.  

It amazes me how many people I encounter that love to gripe at how far it is to drive to our council office .  In 6 years, I have had to go the council office on only two occasions: 1) for a training that my son was attending to maintain our Lodge website, and 2) to drive my son to drop off his Eagle application and workbook.  Anything else, I mail or wait until Rt to hand off to my DE.  What all these other people I hear griping are doing in all that time driving back and forth is beyond me.  Spending a $1 on postage is far more reasonable to me than wasting that $1 on the drive it takes to get there.

As to uniforms- the BSA has frankly become too reliant on the revenue of uniform pieces.  $4.50 for a pair of shoulder loops equals $4.25 in profit.  However, they also must spend an obscene amount of money on items that end up being canned.  How much Varsity Scouts merch do you think ended up in a landfill?  I say take a page out of the BPSAs book, and use third party shirts/pants/shorts and just sell your own patches and trinkets. https://baden-powell-service-assoc-quartermasters.myshopify.com

4 minutes ago, David CO said:

Many of the first generation of scouting professionals came from the ranks of the YMCA.  YMCA had two colleges that trained coaches, counselors, and administrators for YMCA work.  YMCA trained personnel were considered to be highly desirable by Boy Scout councils.  

 

For the now long gone council in my area that got merged up in the 60s, the first Council Executives (as apparently many were called in those days) was a retired school principal.  That is life experiences that would make them a good choice in my opinion.  Considering that you could retire from such a profession before the age of 55, I'd give serious thought to hire anyone in that position than several of the SE's I have met.    

Regarding Council activity fees, having had this model in my council for a few years now, it's still polarizing even after all this time.  Our activity fee is $30 per youth (Venturers/Sea Scouts age 18-21 are considered "adults" for this purpose, and are not charged the $30) per year.  

There was some perceived benefits, namely that the Council no longer charges for adult training, but when we used to charge $25/participant for IOLS, we actually spent the $25 to have supplies and about ~$18 of that went towards food.  That $18 was a lot, but we went all out to have the participants cook backpack type meals for lunch, and cook several dishes so that they can see the (and taste) the variety of options that exist.  now, we are given $15/participant as budget by Council to pull off an IOLS.  

The main "benefit" that we get for this activity fee is weekend tent camping is "free" at our council camps.  Prior, the cost for weekend tent camping was $75.  30 Scouts paying $30 a year is an awful lot of dough when we try to explain it parents every year- what they perceive they can put their hands on as "benefit" is we don't have to pay $150 a year for the two weekends we use the council camps a year.

I understand the economics.  FoS donations have been on the decline for a long time, so councils have to look to get revenue somewhere.  Where we might actually get better "stickiness" to have units participating is if we increased the annual chartering fee, with the increased portion going to councils.  Ultimately same net effect that you are asking families to either pay through unit dues, or unit fundraising, but where it is now the unit that is perceived to be ponying up the cash and not the members, perhaps the unit leaders will become more vested to plan/run events and more actively participate.

I recommend this quick read: https://www.outdoors.org/articles/amc-outdoors/a-wilderness-first-aid-kit-checklist

For the most part, it's a basic first aid kit you might bring on a day hike (adhesive bandages of different sizes, a few gauze pads, some antiseptic wipes, an ace bandage or two, a set of tweezers, something that can be used as a cravat, a small package of moleskin).  Probably items you already have in a home first aid kit.  Additions I'd recommend is a roll of athletic tape, a tube of cortisone/rash cream, and a SAM splint- these might be a few bucks, but I always carry mine on me.  Dollar General type stores might have these.  My kit is in a fanny-pack type pouch, and I sling it around my shoulder on hikes.  Doubtful they will use the materials on the course, it's more of a proof of concept that the participants understand situations they can find themselves in that might require having a kit that is a little different than a small personal kit like they put together for First Aid MB. 

My council has taken to having monthly "office hours" where folks can attend and ask questions.  It's a 2 hour block, that unfortunately is on a weeknight evening that is a conflict for their weekly unit meeting night.  Problem #1.  It has a call-in conference number for those that can not attend in person.  Problem #2 in that a lot of time is wasted with people asking for the question (and/or the answer) to get repeated, apologizing for talking over each other, etc.  The biggest problem though, is that one question can easily eat up 30 minutes, if there are several people that want to comment on it.  

I applaud that at least there is a modicum of effort.  However, I feel that this method is to avoid putting things in writing, and it creates other potential issue as the information provided gets altered and twisted when relayed from one attendee to a non-attendee, and that non-attendee relays to another, etc.

I would rather just a forum for people to ask questions, and then expect twice a month a single, compiled list of questions with answers would get distributed in writing.   

If I am a consumer that is shopping at my local market for a bottle of Coca-Cola, I can reasonably conclude that I don't have an avenue to ask a question to the CEO of Coca-Cola and get an answer. If I am the sales representative that is employed by Coca-Cola, and I have to go out to the field to try and get more retailers to carry our products, I should have an expectation that I may need answers to be prepared for what that consumer I run into in the market may ask.  For the most part, I liken communication that comes from Council or National is provided to the volunteer adult is too often handled as though I am that individual buying a bottle of Coke, and I'm not treated like I am the Coca-Cola employee.  That is 100% a problem.  

I also believe that this policy that BSA has had up to now that they only higher from within is very outdated.  Heck, if us "inferior" people out here in the volunteer space can figure out the Scouting program, why do we feel that only those who started at the bottom rung of the professional ladder are worthy of loftier positions? I'd rather they higher the most qualified individual, and that person may have received those qualifications from outside the BSA.  They can learn the mechanics of the Scouting program on the fly as so many out here do.  

I feel JTE is good for new units, or units with newer inexperienced adults, as a baseline structure of how to get a unit performing.  However, I don't find "standardized tests" as something to repeat year-over-year, so I'm not beholden to it.  Our Crew is Bronze, and we are perfectly fine with that "measurement", and frankly we wouldn't have even cared to have that designation, but the JTE form was required for us to submit before Council would process our charter for next year.

21 hours ago, qwazse said:

Fix venturing? That would entail:

- Allowing youth to meet independent of adults

- Removing the distinction in applications between youth and adult participant

- Limiting registration fee to the less than the cost of a campout or two large pizzas, whichever is lower.

- Renaming awards Star Venturer, Life Venturer, and Eagle Venturer. Or, at least insist NESA extend its mission to support Venturing's highest award.

In other words roll back everything that BSA has done to venturing in the past 10 years (except the One Oath Initiative, that actually kinda worked).

I agree with much of this.  Allowing Venturers- especially true when it is a group of several 18 year olds- be able to meet and carry out events without adults would be huge.  

Ultimately it the SM, who would have already had consult with the PLC (and ASMs if needed) that would present a request to our committee for X $s to purchase tents.  I wouldn't at all have debate in my meetings on the type of tent, just whether we had majority to allocate the funds.  The SM might come to me as CC, or I may go to him, to discuss the item(s) if we each felt it necessary.  Being a first year group, your committee seems to still be "norming".  A private aside with the CC to encourage that they try to keep these discussions on point and concise might be a good idea.  

6 minutes ago, ValleyBoy said:

Pre EBOR we turn in the 2 page application, reference letters, and Completed Eagle Project workbook to the Council office.

We do most everything electronic at the front end.  Scout sends an email for their project scope to the District Advancement Chair, who reviews, asks questions if necessary, and approves- in a rare instance, they may ask to meet with the Scout if something isn't clear or needs revision that isn't coming across via the email chain.  Once project is complete,  the Scout completes the Eagle workbook and 3 copies of the application, and requests letters.  Letters are sent to the unit (typically SM, but some units have it come to the Advancement Coordinator).  All is brought to the Eagle BOR.  The BOR members review the workbook and letters for about 20-30 minutes before the BOR begins.  District Advancement Chair reviews the application during that time.  When BOR is complete, the copies of the application are signed- two are sent to Council.  Once copy goes to National, one stays with Council as a backup in case it gets mishandled by National, and the third is given to the unit for the same reason. 

Our staff adviser wants the LEC to "increase Brotherhood numbers"- presumably that is coming from the SCF.  I'm with @Oldscout448 that I'd welcome anyone to Brotherhood, if it truly was in their heart as a desire, not just because it fulfills someone else's wish.

Not sure I like "selling" service.  feel like giving back to the community for raking an elderly person's yard, etc. is just something we should do to fulfill our "do a good turn", not make money off of it.  

here are some more for you: http://manyhoops.com/wampanoag-food-and-recipes_1.html

I was on meritbadge.org last weekend , so it may just be undergoing maintenance.  

We only charge the BSA registration fee + our Council Activity Fee, so $90 total for 2020.  We have one large annual fundraiser that gives us several grand for operating budget, as well as several thousand to split into scout accounts.   So far, only 2 will be leaving, but those two youth weren't involved more than a couple meetings this year, they never camped or attended Memorial Day parade, etc.  There are couple parents that grumbled about it, but our Council has created an application to appeal for financial hardship exemption to seek waiver of the $30 Activity Fee to assist families, so they will probably at least try to get that waiver.  The bigger concern is what to do if the fees raise again.  Our council made a statement on the Activity Fee waiver to the effect that units should be assisting families first, which made my stomach turn.  

1 hour ago, NDW5332 said:

Kids not worrying about it, I can handle.  My own son was in this camp until recently.  It's some of the parents that are just outright indignant:  "My son shouldn't have to ask you to sign off on xxxx! If he was there and did it, you should sign for it."

I will say this about our Troop - I believe that we have some of the most flexible adult leadership.  Our SM has done Scoutmaster conferences at a McDonald's on a Sunday afternoon because that worked out for a Scout's schedule.  I was even able to set up a BOR for one Scout while he was at summer camp because he reached his time in a position of responsibility and we had enough adult leadership ready to make it happen.

By far the biggest challenge- stay in solidarity to the SM.  That is very important when it comes to parents.  They will push- and often you'll hear them talk about "Eagle" in about every sentence they ever utter.  It is hard to sway their mindset.  At our recent parent meeting, I spent 5 minutes explaining to the parents that if it has been a year+ that their son has not advanced in rank, it is far more likely that the scout just hasn't asked anyone for signoffs, not for lack of the troop providing program needed for the scout to advance.  I gave them perspective to feel free to spend time with their son and his handbook, look at requirements, read the appropriate sections, ask their son questions (watch Youtube videos if necessary to understand the skills)- while we can't have parent signing off, they can help build the confidence in their son to come forward and ask for review/signature.   All testing/signoff is going to come from the troop, but if any parent is thinking we need to literally drag their kid to advancement, it isn't going to happen within our unit.  

8 minutes ago, NDW5332 said:

As a relatively new Advancement Chair for our Troop, we've had some difficulty with the group of Scouts that crossed-over this past February / March with most not having earned their Scout rank yet.  What is particularly frustrating is the fact that most of those that haven't "ranked up" went to summer camp and continue to be active participants in Troop meetings and other activities (camp outs, Scouting for Food, Popcorn, hikes, etc...).  The root cause, as I see it, is still the Cub Scout mentality that they should have things signed off simply by participating.  They don't seem to grasp the concept that THEY need to approach the SM or ASM (or SPL or Troop Guide) to get tested and signed off.  I feel at times I'm talking myself blue explaining this to them.  The other leaders explain this to them.  I guess you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink...

I can assure you, you are one of thousands who have died on this hill The younger kids hear you, that I am convinced- caring about it, not so much.  My findings are that they are not so worried about it.  You have ~7 years to get to Eagle, anyway, don't you? Most are just happy to be having fun, and often glad to be away from the "structure" that sometimes shows up in the cub program, that advancement isn't their priority.  

27 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I think in our rush to critique merit badge colleges, we're missing out on a key point.  These opportunities for Scouts are popular - that's why they exist.  Having sessions like this provide opportunities for Scouts to learn things they might not, to advance when they might not.

We hold an annual merit badge college.  At the event, Scouts spend one day working on one single merit badge.  Class size is 10-15 scouts per class.  The class runs about 6 hours.  In that time, the scouts complete the bulk of the requirements.  If there are longer form requirements we assign them as prerequisites just like at summer camp.

Would it be wonderful if every MB was earned by working directly with a counselor - perhaps.  But, Scouts are only going to invest so much time in doing one-on-one sessions.  Merit badge colleges provide an alternative path to experience more Scouting.  Does every participant treat it as an additive activity - no.  Some do use it to replace one-on-one merit badge sessions.  But, a great many do see it as a way to earn an extra badge they might not normally.

I would think it would be good for us to do two things here:

1. leverage these as additional opportunities for Scouts.  Take a merit badge you never have before.  Complete that required merit badge you've been dreading.
2. develop best practices for these sorts of events that make them as productive as possible. What is a good class size, how should they be structured, what about individual tasks in the context of that course.  

So, in short.  Let's not throw out these popular sessions, but let's find a way to better integrate them so Scouts extract maximum value.

 

Largely agree with your thoughts.  MB universities/colleges/fairs can be structured so that the selection process/choice/approval still happens.  Similar to summer camp, if you know the schedule of what is being offered, that is shared to the scouts, and those desiring to attend can make selections from the list of what is available and discuss with their SM what they have selected.  If SM deems appropriate, blue card issued, scout goes off to the MBU to work with the counselor.  

Some may feel that the BSA is implying that MBs are supposed to be one-on-one, scout to MBC- but it does not explicitly state that.  We would never be able to offer MBs at summer camp if that were the case.  Group instruction is a part of the lives of the youth.  In any given school year, they are learning much, much more information in any given subject than that which is learned from any MB, and they do it with group instruction.  Are limits on the size of the group important? YES!  However, I would hope that is up to the MBC on the appropriate size.  As an MBC for Citizenship in the World, an ideal size for me is no more than 5 scouts.  I want the requirements to be dynamic discussion, not just "you listened to me, now repeat back what I said", and a group larger than 5 for me makes those discussions too lengthy that I feel many scouts tune out what their fellow scouts are saying by the time it gets to the 6th kid/7th kid, etc.  I am also an MBC for Art MB, and I have no problem with that being a group of 20- most art classes in elementary/middle school/high school/college are larger than that.  

Are there MBUs being run as "show up, you get the badge"? I'm sure there are.  Improving quality would be what I would focus on, rather than just trying to eliminate them completely.  Offering MBs at unit level is important as well, but I wouldn't want to confine a kid to only what the unit/council can offer.  If your unit doesn't have a chemistry MBC, and the nearest one within the council is 65 miles away, likelihood that Billy/Sally Scout is going to realistically be able to work on that MB is small to non-existent.   However, if the council is going to have a MB fair at a site that is 10 miles from Billy/Sally Scout's hometown on a given day, and that MBC is going to be there, I'm all in on it! Billy/Sally Scout may already know that chemistry is their passion, and they may go on to be the person who finds the cure for a disease later in their life, and that opportunity as a Scout to work on a MB was the catalyst.  

That's a new one on me.  What exactly is their logic? You are selling a ticket to a product/service, similar to how units are selling popcorn.  If what they were concerned with is having a fundraisers selling chances on a 50/50 raffle, yes, I would say no field uniforms for that, as it is gambling and the unit shouldn't really be doing it.

8 hours ago, Liz said:

There are only two troops for girls in our city, and the other one is "closed" to new members, so unless the one girl in this nearby Webelos den happens to be the daughter of the Chair of the "other" Troop (which would be unfortunate, but that's a long, other story) it's safe to say she'll be joining our Troop if she joins any Troop at all. 

We had our meeting tonight and I think I've pretty much made up my mind to go with our neighborhood Pack, for several reasons. As a bonus, our Troop Scoutmaster who was at the meeting pointed out that it would give us a good opportunity to make another connection between our Troop and another Family Pack in the area. My daughter is disappointed but I think the other kid that she is currently doing Webelos with and she can still get together and work on electives and stuff, and we may still go to camp together next summer. Once they move on to Troops they won't be able to be in the same unit anymore anyway, and this gives her at least a chance of working towards her AOL with a girl who she might end up in a patrol with later. The unit the other family is planning to go to, which is in their neighborhood, is registered as a Family Pack but I don't think it has any girls at that age level. 

It's not a done deal yet and I reserve the right to change my mind before it's all over, but I think this is a reasonable course. 

Perhaps they can be a “bridge” of sorts. Not that they have to only work with other girls, but their DLs might find it advantageous to have the few girls from the two packs have some weekend events held jointly for just the girls to have their own time together. A few troops in my area are doing a mini camp ore of sorts this spring to let the girls learn from each other, share ideas on growth, lessons learned, etc.

Sorry that this has to be such a major issue, but applaud you are thinking of what is best for your kids rather than just taking the easiest road of what is shortest commute for you.  I empathize with that.  Think beyond the next year though, what would be the landscape for your daughter once she is moving to the next level? Would it be likely she would be in a troop with this 1 girl that is in the pack near you (and would that be a troop that is near you)? 

2 minutes ago, RainShine said:

Thanks for the feedback. Love this site, very helpful. In our troop only adults sign off on requirements. But I read in the troop leader guide that the Scoutmaster decides who can sign off. I haven't mentioned it here before but I become Scoutmaster at the end of the year. One of the first things I intend to do is have youth sign off on Scout rank. Should open the gates. I was thinking about setting it to First Class and above could sign off on Scout rank. I would leave the rest to adults to ensure quality control, and, well also so that I'm not making too many changes at once. But I'm very open to ideas so you can influence me on that.

Too much change can really take those changes a long time to fully execute.  My advice is start small- have it for Scout rank to start off with as you plan, then maybe have it be "former SPL/ASPL" can sign-off up to 1st Class for the next year after that, and within just a few years you should have a handful of "older" scouts modeling to the others how it should be done, where you could either let it be any Star/Life/Eagle, or just keep it that way.