HashTagScouts

We are beginning the groundwork of plans for our own summer camp, hopefully the last week of July.  Normally we would have been at camp week 1 (June 28-July 4).  We are looking at later into July to allow our local area to settle, and let families adjust to anticipated "re-opening" the state in June (we are in MA).  We have an ASM who's family owns a tract of land in Maine with lake frontage, so we also have to respect local governance there.  Thankfully the property is abutted by other large private tracts, so we will be nicely distanced from others and will allow us to sufficiently be isolated, both for our benefit and that of others.  Several of of our youth, including mine and our SM, are camp staffers, so we will let them determine our daily scheduling, but we are probably going to make our camp week Sunday-Thursday or Monday-Friday, and try to avoid higher travel days, so that when we inevitably have to stop on the way to/way back we avoid big crowds at rest stops.  Primarily, I want us to have our BSA guards give opportunity to the young kids who need swimming MB and rank requirements, and offer some badges like pioneering, mammal study, cooking, geocaching, nature, etc. for the mornings. If we have an adult who wants to offer something in the handicrafts area, and is going to take it upon themselves to have the needed supplies and materials, that will be fine but don't want to leave it at the feet of the kids to have to do the gathering for it.  Mostly, as it will probably be our first overnighting opportunity in 2020, we want the kids to have plenty of time to just relax and make their plans on the fly for the afternoons (pick up wiffleball games, working on skills, taking hikes, etc.).  We'll be running a virtual Communications MB session next week, and I anticipate we'll have 5-6 kids working on that, which gives us a good resource to have them running opening or closing ceremony at our camp, a Scout Vespers one evening, and I'll let one of them be the "camp commish" to run morning/evening colors MC for the week to complete their badge requirements.   

Katahdin Area Council (Maine) jsut announced cancellation of the summer camp season at Camp Roosevelt.

We are awaiting any concrete statements.  We only have 7 kids signed up at this point, where we would expect 18-20.  Council only just sent the checklist for camp staff to upload forms/training certificates/etc yesterday.  MA pushed the end date for stay-at-home from May 4 to May 18.  Based on what Maine has announced as state plans, as of tomorrow they enter "phase 1", and while they were not exactly explicit in stating "summer camps", their guidelines wouldn't be looking to see groups of greater than 50 until 7/1 at the earliest (all 3 phases do call for anyone who is a non-resident to quarantine for 14 days upon entering Maine, so there is that).  I think I and SM are both of the mind that MA will follow what similar to what Maine is doing, and we won't see our summer camp open before 7/18, which basically kills the summer.  Looking at both Katahdin and Pine Tree councils, they have not made any updates to their Covid-19 statements for a few weeks, so that leaves me feeling melancholy.    

56 minutes ago, awanatech said:

I have no desire to go questioning at Council level, and especially not at National level.  I got to the point a long time ago where I don't go seeking more clarification when it's clear that nothing good will come out of it.  At least not through official channels.  I had never heard that about MBC not being considered a "registered adult leader", since they fill out an adult application, it is submitted to Council and they are approved (registered) or not. Along with that is the YPT and MBC training.  Sounds like they satisfy all the requirements of the term "registered adult leader".  But I've been around enough to know that many Councils will have different interpretations and policies.  It's just amazing sometimes how hard we try to make it within BSA to get & keep good, willing, qualified adult volunteers (who get to pay for the privilege of serving).

MBCs don't pay.  This is why there is a difference between "registered adult" and "registered adult leader".  MBCs are not required to take any training beyond YPT and MBC training.  They are not satisfactorily a leader, as they don't actually lead- they consult on Merit Badges.  For the purpose of a virtual meeting- OK, no problem, adults are not expected to be leading troop meetings, the SPL is.  What troop org chart have you ever seen that has MBCs on them, and what reporting lines they have? 

1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Only in certain merit badge situations, not something considered an outing.  And that opens a new discussion about what constitutes a merit badge session, versus an "outing"

Again, policies are often written with ambiguity to protect the BSA...not you, nor youth 

 

Agreed.  MBCs are required to go through background checks for obvious safety, and to take our YPT to be familiar with the Scouting program (bear in mind, it was not the intention of the early days of Scouting for MBCs to be the troop leaders, they were to be the people in the community that were subject-matter experts for Scouts to interact with).  BSA does make it confusing with flip-flopping on the use of term "adult leaders" and "registered adult", but, an MBC is not expected to be a "unit leader", and thus is not intended to be a supervisor within any other part of the Scouting program other than MBs.  It was pointedly said during our summer camp pre-meetings that National does not consider a registered MBC to satisfy the two-deep leadership for units attending camp.  Only SM/ASM/Committee members can fill those roles (any one of those dual registered as an MBC, obviously is a different matter).

2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Our PLC is telling scouts to focus on the MBCs that require tracking (personal fitness, personal management) or are bookwork (Citizenships) right now.  The idea is to get those out of the way so you can focus on the outdoor ones later.  I thought that wasn't a bad idea.  

Agreed.  I organized Family Life MB for our group- perfect time to work on projects at home with family members and "be present" to do chores for 90 days, Music Mb same- able tow work on learning a new jig; and we'll be doing Personal Fitness Mb in a week or so for the same reason.  Leave the Nature and E Sci for another time.

21 minutes ago, jpb6583 said:

So our SE just called me a few minutes ago. Tried to sell me on how this was a good idea and "in this troubled time" this was the best way to ensure adult volunteers were properly trained. He didn't like me calling their version pencil-whipped and had nothing to say after I pointed out that page 10 of the IOLS course guide specifically says "Do not move instruction areas inside to a classroom setting. This defeats the purpose..." I think I'm going to be put on that list councils like to keep with those who rock the boat...

I personally would have zero problem moving to virtual for some of the items, like Leave no Trace instruction.  But it shouldn't be a full repalcement, just that when things become more safe you could have a shortened in-person one nighter where everyone camps Friday night and the hands on outdoors stuff like fire-building and woods tools could be done, and everyone goes home by 1:00PM on Saturday.  But, seriously, are any of us really going to think we would want our kid being supervised in a campout come fall by someone who got their trained badge from Zoom?

10 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

AN OBSERVATION ABOUT THE CONSENSUS WORST SCOUTMASTER OF THE PERIOD IN THIS: "He thinks he can teach fire-building inside a building."

but, "fire-building" has the word "building" right in it... LOL

18 minutes ago, swilliams said:

We did an online MB course through Central Florida Council.  They ended up with around 900 scouts doing the Sustainability badge.  My son wasn't given credit for the last day's work (some of requirement 3, and 4, 5, and 6).  There was a link to report errors, but when you click on it, it says "This survey is closed".  It's been a mess, and he hated doing it.  Boring, boring.  I won't ever encourage him to do another online badge again.  He would have been better off doing this on his own with Zoom meetings and a local counselor.  Hopefully your council will have better results.

Our Council recently had virtual Key 3 fireside meetings.  One of the questions was why did our Council wait 3 weeks to develop any virtual MB events.  Central Florida Council was cited by our SE as an example of why they put thought into it and didn't rush it along, and why they put limits on our council sessions of 15 Scouts.  

29 minutes ago, Jeff1974 said:

Our Troop Committee met this past weekend.  While our council's camp, or Summit Bechtel Experience, have made any definitive announcement, as a Troop we will not be supporting summer camp or high adventure this summer.   We have yet to contact parents who had, pre Covid-19, expressed interest.  As an adult leader that was to attend both of these trips, I simply have no comfort level in being responsible for a group of scouts 500-800 miles away from their homes, to destinations with medical facilities that are subpar from those in our own community.  We all assume a heavy responsibility on these trips under normal circumstances, but absent a vaccine, it is not something I, or other leaders, wish to undertake at this time.   While I tend to think the risk to a healthy scout is low,  many of our adult leaders have aging parents with imuno-compromised situations.  Another factor was allowing adult leaders more flexibility to planning alternative summer trips for their own families, in an attempt to salvage some of the summer.    

We will continue with our online troop meetings, which are being very well attended, encourage Scouts to continue to work together via facetime, identify safe community service projects and plan for next year.  If conditions allow, we may feel more comfortable in scheduling a summer trip or two within 2-3 hours of our community, but that will be driven by state guidelines and parental comfort.  I really do feel for these Scouts.  My own kids had 4 weeks of overnight camp (non-BSA), and my son was to follow that with Scout camp (and his OA induction), plus a Troop high adventure trip.  Be well all.  

I'm expecting camps to have delayed opening here- condensed from 6 weeks to 3 weeks.  My feeling is attendance will be sparse enough from parents being cautious that the camp will be able to handle the reduced volume for the 3 weeks.  so that would be the last two weeks of July and first week of August.  I have asked our SM to start talking to the PLC about planning a 4 day/3 night trip for mid-August, when things might be far more settled, as a potential trip in lieu of summer camp.  I think our parents will have more confidence in our small group getting together than trying to share with 200 other people outside our community.    

33 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I "prefer" to emphasize differently.  It's NOT about completing homework or bringing their homework to the MB session.  That's a counselor driven "this is what I need to see" aka teacher/student style.  The MB program is more mentorship or on-the-job training.  

I agree with you.  In my case we are talking about Cit in the Nation, and the letter requirement.  I have no problem giving the group instructions and advice on topics, how to find the name/address (or in most cases the website to fill it out as an electronic submission), but I am not going to write the letter for them, nor spoon feed it so I have all 7 kids writing the exact same letter.  That is where the one-on-one would come in, but I still want them writing a draft and we go over it together to refine it.  This parent seems to think I should tell them exactly what to write, which is not going to happen with this guy.

Unless National Training Chair gives a blessing to, i don't see how in the world this can count.  We're waiting to hear if the OA is going to give some flex on virtual ceremonies, as we are already getting asked about that... I just roll my eyes on why we would/should ever take an optional program and rip it to shreds rather than wait 2-3 months to hold weekend events.

I've coordinated a few virtual MB sessions for our troop over the past month, and have a few more in the planning stages as we are not getting out of stay-at-home orders until end of May at the earliest.  I have not been the counselor for all, but I have insisted that the other counselors not just turn them into force-fed sessions.  Talk about a requirement, then give it to the Scout to do as homework is basically what I am getting at.  Already had one parent upset that I wasn't planning a follow-up session to go over things afterwards.  I have given every Scout, and parent, freedom to contact me with any questions via email or phone, and willing to do Zoom sessions with them individually if they are stuck, but I am not going to handhold during this time, the same as I did not  before all of this.  I feel the same way about Merit Badge Colleges/Fairs/Midways- the kid needs to do the work, it ain't about home much face time they have with me.

14 day camp would require no going home over that weekend, and no one coming in and out during the 14 days.  Strain on adults being able to do it, and labor laws on staff would be a massive obstacle.  Mad struggles around these parts getting full-time health officers as it is, now you'd need to have two so that one can get rest breaks.  Don't see it being practical for most.  Now, the nostalgic part of me harkens back to not so many decades ago that camp was typically a 3 week event around here in New England...

24 minutes ago, TMSM said:

Just a little frustrated. I spent 5 years getting the commitee to understand the value of the patrol method and to strictly follow the advancement rules. I ruffled a few feathers so I see this coming back at me sometime soon. I am in it for the Scouts but dread the drama that I might be in for.

The way I expressed my feelings to my committee members and SM- these should be considered for helping the kid who is in the middle of working on a rank, but we shouldn't be pumping kids to start working on their next rank using these.  It may be a few more weeks or months until we can have overnights, but no one should feel a rush.  

48 minutes ago, TMSM said:

We did a 10 tree ID challenge that new scouts thought was fun(each scout went out by himself and took pics), Scout Jeopardy in patroll meetings was fun, broke out older scouts (Star +) and the met with the Eagle coordinator and was productive. We broke into ranks and worked on specific FA requirements. We were going to do a litter cleanup project but too many parents lost thier minds over this so we cancelled. 

I am thinking we could maybe deliver a troop tent to the crossovers and have their Patrol leader help them virtually to set it up. This would be a race to see which patrol could set up first. A few scouts are creating a Mine Craft flag ceremony and one of the scouts is creating a google survey to see what MBs are interesting to troop members.

I had the SPL invite the TLCs (all with PORs) and they really struggled to come up with anything, We are a hands on, outside, patrol method troop so they have no experience with making virtual fun. In fact Zoom meetings are making it seem like school. We don't all live in the same town so scavenger would not work.

I did invite a former Eagle Scout to do an SM minute and he talked about why the crossovers should stick it out and wait for their first campout and how how his first year changed his perspective.

 

I will not allow virtual tour to replace tours in any of my MBs

I will not sign off on Virtual Troop Campouts 

I will not allow sign-offs by anyone but me for scouts cooking in a family patrol

I will not sign off on the Triple Crown award for scouts virtually touring 3 HA sites

Right now I am thinking it would be better to close down the troop until September

The only rebuttal I would give is the virtual "tours" for MBs.  Well, for some MBs anyway.  Crime Prevention Mb is a prime one that I look at, that even under "normal" circumstances, a virtual component is probably better than the real thing in many cases.  I've tried going the route using Scouter contacts that work for the MA DOC and Sherriffs office to arrange tours for Scouts at Ma prisons, and it is so limiting on timing, length of time involved to arrange them, and when successful to arrange them they last about 15 minutes and the Scouts don't experience a whole lot about the prison itself, never are in contact with inmates, and mostly it is whomever has been tasked to us from staff that speaks to them about "what it is like to be incarcerated".  I've had better experiences with going to local PD and tour the lockup at the station, but that is, for us as a small town, not exactly a scintillating experience to the kids.  There are a number of documentary films and docuseries that can easily be found on YouTube, or even streaming services, that give an even better experience on the objective of the MB requirement that IMO are more valuable than the physical visits.  

Now, are all of these virtual sources better? No, so I think some flex and working with your MBCs to make sure what would/could be used is warranted.  Common sense is an undervalued thing these days for sure, so I appreciate being guarded, but as you alone are going to be the one giving the approval for the Scouts to start working on the badges, you are fully within right to ask the MBCs to give their presentation to you first for blessing any of it.

Before the BSA put this out, we had discussion on some ways of being flexible- parent filming the Scout on a cell phone as they built a fire in the backyard, learning knots via animated knots and then demonstrating it on a Zoom conference, taking a hike with a parent in an open area and using cell phone to capture pics of plants/animal signs.  Also we agreed that family members could be surrogate patrol members for cooking requirements.Those I could get down with.  Not actually having to navigate or truly demonstrate I am not down with.  The concept of "they'll learn it later on, after the rank has been awarded" is going too far.  There's no reason to rush for most of these kids.  Do enough to keep interested and connected, but no reason to be tossing the outdoor requirements out the window.

41 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

hmmm...

Two questions for you, Sir.

1. What do you believe is the role of Professionals?

2. What do you believe SHOULD be the role of Professionals. 

I personally believe DEs are still very much a necessity.  Their role should be allowed to be set, universally nationally, to be more of what the field directors do now.  I've often been aggravated over how many unit leaders, and for me it has been disproportionally Packs, that EXPECT their De to come to all their functions.  I see zero need for that- the DE is there to help solve problems, help with membership issues, gather applications to ensure they are processed smoothly.  They are not there to glad-handle people at Blue and Golds or CoHs as "the face of Scouting"- that is what us volunteers are there for.  Let DEs work more normal hours, not feel they are spending all those extra hours in the car traveling between all these different things, you might not burn them out so much.  now, if a DE wants to make time in their schedule to be at an event, God bless them, but I have had to witness too many nasty exchanges when a De "can't fit my XXX into their schedule".

Some scale at the national level I would say is still necessary- IT resources, especially those dedicated to Scoutbook.  Let's be honest, that was taken over with it being only about 50% functional of what it should be, and even now is still less than 75% IMO. 

Some people dedicated to marketing (advertising mostly) would be nice- having documents and flyers and such that are uniform, and not council creations, would be helpful.  This national team might be bigger than it is today, but then again, if they are truly answerable to the councils, some councils could eliminate their positions and have this group take over some of their tasks.  I think a number of councils do marketing fairly well, but is there a true vehicle for them to share their stuff with other councils? I envision up to today, if they ever sent anything to national with that concept in mind of sharing, it entered a black hole netherworld.

Seems like a great group that is using a little ingenuity to solve a major problem.  I haven't contacted them, but I wonder if others in the Maryland area might be able to organize a donation drop off in their town and get them to this group as a service project: www/facebook.com/BreastPumpVent

There is data, it just is being withheld.  Part of the agreement between POTUS and health insurers was to give the insurers access to the data CDC was collecting.  not that I have huge fear of losing my anonymity here,  I'd like to not lose my job and share what we know in specific #s, but we do know the number of people tested, the zip codes they live in, ages, gender.  CDC is coordinating the share of that between the state public health departments as well, but they are also not sharing that on with the public.    

What that article references is lockdown type policy as used in China- where people were not allowed out of their homes for any reason, no roaming the city, all businesses shut down as it had been in Wuhan for 73 days, etc.  That is not what is being done in MA or NY currently.  We are at about the 25% mark here in MA under the current executive orders, and we have field hospitals that have been set up in the DCU Center Worcester and the Boston Convention Center, and two others are up and running or will be this week.  Hospitals are like warzones here now, and we have not peaked.  My employer just gave us notice today that business travel and face-to-face meetings of groups larger than 10 are suspended (and can only be held in locations that would allow for appropriate 6 foot social distancing of all participants) for the remainder of 2020 nationally.   

The one thing that Fauci said that seemed contradictory, was that he has revised his outlook on the #s of those who would be carriers but otherwise asymptomatic.  He initially felt less than 20%, but now believes it could be as high as 50% (and the population that would make up the vast bulk of that number, are those aged 8-18).  The reality is we are only just learning about this virus, and what we know changes by the day.

9 hours ago, carebear3895 said:

This is where I'm at. At the end of the day, our job is to protect youth. Delaying camp is just delaying the inevitable, not protecting against it. 

Also, not to be rude, but many Scout leaders are not exactly spring chickens. 

The reason to NOT encourage large gatherings, is the swell that would occur to the higher-risk groups.  Hospitals are overwhelmed now trying to treat people, and that is with only 300k having the virus.  Our health system would very much collapse if we had even a 15% increase to inpatient #s in many areas.

2 hours ago, qwazse said:

Actually, if your doc's office is open (and you're asymptomatic and have have been well isolated ...), now is a great time to get a physical. The waiting rooms have never been so well cleaned, and there aren't a lot of other conditions to treat. (E.g., less work/sports injuries, less asthma without manufacturing and with flu season at an end, fewer communicable diseases ...)

A friend in Switzerland noticed the same thing.

An antibody test will be a game changer. If you had reported symptoms and your office is a testing site, you may get a call to come in for a test. At which point you can ask the doc if he/she can sign your physical paperwork.

When a vaccine clears safety and efficacy trials, expect your kid to get a call. It may be required for school admission, and that may include paperwork. A lost of docs will use that time to sell administer physicals.

The nation could have just as bad a problem if herd immunity isn't established by fall because camps refused to open and allow a certain amount of background transmission. Camps have the advantage of rigorous contact tracing. If you participated in week #5, we know exactly who else was with you. If you stayed home, you could be transmitting a thousand-fold more untraceable contacts.

Frankly, the wisest public policy would be to require all youth to attend a camp for 3 weeks. It would be the best use of a half-trillion dollars the nation could ever spend. (It would have been better if we required it of all incoming travelers in February!) But, that's way beyond anyone's comprehension.

Fed guidelines, at all levels of healthcare, are to delay any elective medical visits, surgery, etc.  In MA, step further, as part of the governors stay-at-home orders, elective procedures are required to be delayed until at least May 4th, or for as long as the order is in place.  My sons physical was rescheduled to late June, and his dental cleanings was rescheduled until June as well.

1 hour ago, ItsBrian said:

Oh I’m aware, but I’m just say if the officials deem that x date is when they deem it safe to be in large gathers & all that stuff. 
 

I was talking more so if the  officials said May 30th (Random date) is when it is safe for schools, camps, etc to open and operate. I would assume the council would cancel whatever weeks are before and during that time, then operate after that. 

I would say all planning right now is to open as usual, and have contingencies to cancel week-to-week as necessary.  I don't know about anyone else's camp, but we have work weekends and then staff week to get everything setup, so if that gets cancelled then week 1 would already need to be cancelled to get that done.  The "re-openning" from the pandemic is going to be very regional I would anticipate.