curious_scouter

Late to the party but plaques and gifts for AOLs in my unit was always covered by the parents.  Some parent groups wanted to drop hundreds on mega trophies, my group bought arrows and learned how to crest arrows so we could keep cost down and give something hand-made.  For "decorations" our crossovers are always outdoors and if there's any "decorating" it's done by the Troop and usually is some form of lashed together furniture/bridges from our already-owned ropes and poles inventory.  Not much to spend on for decorating and doing it outside with a campfire makes it night IMO.

Our Pack used to provide the neckerchiefs and buy pinewood kits for all the Scouts for Christmas.  Since the AOLs did not do pinewood and already had their necker, they would get a mess kit or fork/knife/spoon kit instead as something they can use in Scouts.  The Pack I was in also offered to reimbursed families for the scout handbook if their scout was still active in the troop at the next recharter.  I thought that was nice, but don't think it's needed.

Our Troop covers the neckerchief, green epaulets, and green numbers for all incoming AOLs. 

But, these are all well known, long-established, agreed on, budgeted items. 

What's your takes on MB counselors?  My understanding is G2SS does not say the registered adult leaders have to be leaders in your unit.  So for example, a Den Leader from the Pack or a MB Counselor are both registered leaders with BSA.  As long as they were YPT and did not present a concern to me about having enough qualified supervision - I would be able to leverage either should I ever need to fill 2-up for our Troop.

FWIW, I am generally happy to allow any interested adult to come camping.  Camping is fun, they should get to enjoy it - with the adult Patrol.  My ask as SM is that any non-ASM who wishes to attend consult with me before committing.  It's important to me to set expectations on how to conduct oneself as an adult on a Scouts BSA outing.  I need them to understand "the way" and ensure they will let the Scouts do. 

In the end, we are required to allow parents to observe any aspect of the program they wish.  Noone can really say a parent is not allowed to come camping as far as I understand.  They must be permitted if they insist.  "All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders."

In our Troop there is always a succession plan.  If you're a Scout, and there are other adult leaders, I'd start by asking them if they know of his succession plan.

awesome stuff.

congrats! 

Thanks all, good ideas and options to consider. 

We're looking mainly at 55gallon plastic drums and 5 gallon buckets as options. 

Concern on the drums is safety.  Even if "emptied" ... they can't be dried like a bucket, we worry what would "cook" in them between use.  And it's hard to get inside them to REALLY clean them if something happens.  As shower water or source for KP water - maybe.

I think we're leaning towards 5 gallon buckets.  I think we can probably reach out to some food places (firehouse?) locally and score a deal on the quantity we need.  Google seems to say they are food safe.  They are manageable to carry with 1-2 Scouts.  They can be stacked full, they can be stacked upside down in a pyramid empty to dry.  Once dry, they nest so you can store a bunch in a "column" in the storage space.  They can be sent home ahead of an outing and brought along, similar to the "bring 2 gallons" idea but with reusable containers.  We can use them in other ways during the year (as cones for games for example).  We need one or two at the fire anyway so having them in 5 gallon buckets already supports that.  And while full with a lid on they make pretty good seats for around the fire.

I think I just talked myself into buckets...

We have a largeish troop and are in a hot area.  This adds up to needing quite a bit of water on outings.  I don't know a good "formula" but I think the conventional wisdom is 2 gallons per scout per outing for drinking and I would venture 5 gallons per patrol for cleanup.  Give or take.

We do like to go some places without a water supply.  So this means carting in water.  For a large outing we'll have 30-40 souls in 3-5 patrols.  Which by my previous math means we need to cart in over 100 gallons of water OR be prepared to filter.  Or a little of each.

One approach we've used for a long time is that on those outings each Scout brings 2 gallons (usually two 1-gallon jugs) and then each patrol has 1 igloo 5 gallon drink thing full for water bottle refill and cooking + a 5 gallon bucket with a lid for KP water.  This seems to work but with 30-40 souls generates 60-80 empty plastic containers.  They carry out what they carry in, but man... its a LOT of waste per outing.

So... this may be one of those "non problems" because what we do works.  But I'm curious to know what others do. 

Thanks for all the info!

I have 4 ASMs who are showing as "not trained".  They all took IOLS at an out of council summer camp, I have scans  of their signed training cards.  Assuming that'll clear that up.  But they all show as needing S24, but every one of them has completed the online SM/ASM position specific training.  Should I just not worry about what the report is saying?  Or should I try to get it updated?

Is the online position-specific training for ASM/SM not sufficient for the "trained" designation?  online reports seem to imply "S24" is required and that maps to position specific training in the current training codes doc (https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/currentandpasttrainingcodes.pdf ) which just says position specific training but then the actual Trained Leader Status report seems to indicate classroom training is mandatory for this vs. the online?

I think we'll see about 10% drop after recharter in our Troop.  Just a guess based on what "I've heard" but I would put money on it.

The cub bump is great to see.  I do hope that in the years to come that means the "feeder" of Cubs --> Troop will be revived.  2 years ago, our Troop saw 20 new Scouts come in from Cubs.  Last year 12.  This year we expect 3.  Behind that tiny batch is 6, so I hope we might see it climb back up to around 10 a year which would be a sustainable number but in the next 2 years we'll see a smaller Troop than we've had for 10 years due to the Covid impact and the dried up cub scout feeder.

Are these national numbers @malraux?

Sometimes when you do what you enjoy for a job, it does not hit right.  Sounds cool, but now it's a job and not elective and you must deal with every aspect, good bad or indifferent.  Heck, as I step into the SM role - I feel this.  There's more than I understood, and not all of it's fun.  And that's just "one hour a week" Imagine 40.

By way of update, during Scouting for Food this weekend I happened to cross paths with the district advancement chair.  Quick intro and description of situation and his feedback was "If you're the acting Unit Leader - act"  He was totally understanding and fine.  Good stuff, just as I hoped based on the feedback here.  Appreciate the encouragement and direction.

The saga of my paperwork holdup could probably be a book.  It's not entirely fair for me to say or imply it's council's fault... I'm just saying it hasn't been processed yet.  They work hard at council, I know it.  My situation is a combo of initially losing the paperwork and getting lost in new processes and tools which will eventually streamline all of this but in the short term is slowing thing down as people learn the new tools and processes.  I think there's a light at the end of the tunnel and recharter should provide us a sure bet if it's not resolved by then.

Yes, I plan to reach out an introduce myself and the situation tomorrow.  I'm certain we'll find a satisfactory path forward and now seeing ... this should have been my first stop Need to start filling up my rolodex

4 hours ago, Armymutt said:

Slightly off topic, but if you are going to be the SM in less than 2 months and the SM is going to be gone for all of the meetings between then and now, why not do an immediate leadership change?  There's 7 weeks between now and the end of the year.  

Fair question.  I submitted my ASM application in February, my council still has not processed it.  We've been skating by because I'm still considered a "Den Leader" which does make me a registered leader over the age of 21.  We've taken it up with council and the DE and three weeks ago the response I got (in person) from my DE was that council is aware of my situation bu they are doing "new paperwork first" so my "transfer" still has not been prioritized.  We thought we had a better chance of the paperwork getting priority if it was done with recharter.

CC is fine with it.  I'm sure the SM would be too, he just is not easily reachable although I do have an email out to him he should see eventually. 

I signed it today, but confirmed the Scout can easily re-print if needed.  So, I think we'll "keep the paperwork moving" as suggested (prudent) and I'll double up on the advice here by reaching out to district/council.  I don't know those persons yet, this is a good chance to make those intros regardless.

Thanks as usual for the sage advice

"If I had more time, I would have written a shorter email requirement."

Our SM is away for an extended period (next 6 meetings we think).  Like away-away, not just missing meetings.  I am going to assume the SM role in the new year, and so with that in mind and the absence known I have been delegated most Unit Leader responsibilities like blue cards and SM conferences.  But I am not actually the Unit Leader yet.

Last meeting, I was approached to sign an Eagle application as "Unit Leader".  I deferred the Scout until the SM returns.  I do not see a provision in the GTA that implies this is something the SM can even delegate.  It does say a BOR can't be denied due to a lack of signatures, but that implies the signatures are withheld intentionally and for some reason.  There is also some mention of a letter of explanation being attached if there is a discrepancy that needs clarification.

I don't want to frustrate this Scout with "red tape" but I also do not want to cause him issues with this very important application.  Anyone face a similar circumstance? 

Right now, I am holding off until the SM returns but if a letter of explanation would suffice I'd like to let this Scout get the application in.  They are not at risk of turning 18, but are understandably eager to make this important step.  That said - they did know about this absence and for exactly this reason.  There is a lesson here if nothing else.

We're trying these:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Cascade-Mountain-Tech-250-Lumens-Camping-Lanterns-including-3-x-AA-batteries-per-lantern/672927847

I picked these because they have a frosted globe, which diffuses better and blinds less.  Can can hang/tie them in any number of ways and they are $5 each and come with batteries lol. 

My personal favorite was this energizer one:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Energizer-Rechargeable-LED-Lantern-with-Micro-USB-Charging-Cable/311235219

I got one to try (on sale for $21 at Walmart right now... I do NOT get a kickback ) and kind of love it.  For the price, I am keeping it for my own use.  I love that it's flat, so it fits well in my gear setup and boy howdy - it's bright.  Tie this up in the dining fly and you think it's daylight.  But also has other modes. 

We gathered up the Scouts and adults at the last outing.  We discussed lighting options.  Option1:  Make it a patrol issue to figure out.  Option2:  Provide a lantern in the patrol boxes.

Scout consensus was - they wanted at least a lantern in the patrol boxes.

We then asked:  Propane or LED?
Scouts:  LED.  Propane's a pain, they break easy (mantles, glass) and we think they are a little dangerous, especially for the younger scouts.  They aren't as portable either if we only have the big tanks.

Ok.

We then broke out the box of lanterns the adults had brought from their "personal collections" and demonstrated them all, discussed pros/cons.  They ranged from the cheapie slide out LED lanterns up to $50 1000 lumen rechargeables.  We let the boys try them overnight Saturday and on Sunday...

We then asked:  What did you think?
Scouts:  Having a lantern was great.  We liked this one best, and think being able to replace the batteries quickly is a bonus.

They picked the cheapie LED ones, so we got them for $5 each at Walmart this week and a pack of batteries that will likely last us the rest of this year for less than two propane splitters.  They fit easily in the patrol boxes and ... they really do a fine job of lighting the work space.

Problem solved?  Time will tell

All the distribution posts I see go right on the 20lb tank and have 1lb ports coming off.  Anyone split a 20lb tank to something that uses a "regular" (sorry I'm not an expert on propane and propane accessories) connection like a barbeque grill, a blackstone, or one of the camp chef explorer dual burner type devices AND lets you put on a distribution post that we could securely mount a coleman style (mantle burning) lantern on? 

I only see these kind of distribution posts / trees:
https://www.amazon.com/Flame-King-FK-DP2PC-Distribution-Lanterns/dp/B099VY1GLZ/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=propane+distribution+tree&qid=1667395694&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIzLjUxIiwicXNhIjoiMi45MyIsInFzcCI6IjIuODIifQ%3D%3D&s=lawn-garden&sprefix=propane+dist%2Clawngarden%2C111&sr=1-4

The main issue is we need TWO "regular" connections now - one for our stoves and one for this pole.  We tried a splitter, but the pole does not rest on the tank so you can't secure it well.  We're going to try to "engineer" something with the splitter, but I wondered if a splitter would work and if anyone on here has a solution to suggest.  I looked for a pole with a pass-through port but did not see any which leads me to believe that the pressure needs are so disparate between the coleman stuff and "regular" stuff that it's just not a thing.  I suspect we're into "splitter" territory.

I think a lot of this might be summed up as "going through the motions".  I know this year in our Troop has been transformative because we've hit that generational shifting point in some leadership - both youth and adult.  I think sometimes troops get into a rut.  They do the same-old-same-old.  Maybe the Scouts think that's what they are expected to do.  One case in point, at the final PLC of last year the Scouts were planning the last meeting and it was a Court of Honor.  It was also one of the first PLCs I had attended.  When I said "What do you guys think about doing it at a pool or the bowling alley?  We can do the awards and then go have some fellowship" it was like this total shift in the room.  "We can do that?"  Well... honestly I was so new I didn't know for sure... but it sounded fun to me.  I said "I mean... as far as I know... you guys can do anything you want that we think we can reasonably afford or orchestrate."

Maybe look at the routine and see if you can break it up.  I feel like this has helped our troop a lot.  This plus a focus with the PLC on "intentional fun" has helped a lot.  "If it doesn't sound fun - make it fun somehow... or don't do it.  Do something else."  It's been helping with our group this year.  Some meetings are still "meh" but by and large the feedback has improved a lot this year.

Welcome!