curious_scouter

We had sort of a blow up over this.  Scouts BSA unit.  Scout turned 18 in Nov/Dec.  Friends would not turn 18 until sometime the next year.  Wanted to stay in the unit, but in a way where they could still participate with their buddies.  Cited "Unit College Scouter Reserve" as being for this purpose but on my own review and review with District and Council - no.  The purpose of that role is to forgive the unit of the training requirements for adult leaders for people in that role.  The training status of people in that role are not assessed a penalty for the unit in processes like JTE.  But it does not mean that person can show up to campouts and set up their tent next to their buddies and go Pal around like days of yore.  Sadly, 18 means 18 for Scouts BSA.  There's no ambiguity.  I've suggested Crew as an option because (as we are chartered under the same org) we could then have combined activities where they could come and be with their under 18 buddies as "adult program participants" as long as the YPT rules around that are followed.  I see this a lot in OA for example too.  Did not excite the person in this case, so they moved on.  But those are the options as I understand them.  If you come into Scouts BSA as an adult - you're an adult.  You are bound by the YPT rules any adult is and you would, in my unit, be expected to act like adult leaders and "stay out of the scouts' hair" vs. jump in and do stuff with them, camp with them, KP with them, etc.

"I had walked places all my life.  So how hard could it be?"

Love it.

14 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I learned a lot of new words and ideas 😛😜😜 

Same.  lol

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

shower curtain poncho

I was amazed recently when reading about Emma Gatewood who thru-hiked the AT at 67 years old in 1955 (and then again two more times from what I understand) with a main piece of equipment being a shower curtain as a tarp.  I thought that sounded so unusual but based on this additional source, maybe it was a common "hack" of that time in history.  Nifty.

30 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

Whatever system (digital or otherwise), counsel the scouts to reply to comms. If someone does not reply, then the PL (or whomever sent the comm) must then seek that person out.

Good advice.  I have this challenge not only in direct comm "Hey, I sent you an email - did you get it?" but also clearly set expectations.  For example, it had become the practice to sign up for a campout ONLY if you were going.  Our tool for that supports an "RSVP" model where you can explicitly say "I'm not coming."  I started asking everyone to RSVP "no" if they are not coming.  This allowed us to start confirming that people were seeing the calendar entries, and not planning to come.  This has been really helpful in our planning. 

Main thing we did that would be a no-no today was cramming EVERYONE into a single shelter when winter camping.  It was a great way to stay warm, but having done it for many years as a youth I thoroughly understand the logic behind the "within 2 years" rule of YPT.  The information sharing was unfiltered. 

On 1/15/2024 at 3:48 PM, fred8033 said:

Let your scouts decide.  ... Trust your scouts ... and don't think you can control them.  They will communicate how they want.  Plus, their choosing how to communicate is part of their team forming and storming.  It's what we really want out of our scouts:  their solving and owning their activities.  

As unit leaders, the question is how much do we communicate to the parents.  A troop schedule with mtgs, events and activities?  Costs?  Other?  

this is what I was going to suggest.  Make it an agenda item of your next PLC.  Let the Scouts sort it out.  They use methods and means you'll never get into anyway.  And... they don't want you there. 

Be direct and make sure your SPL can reach their ASPLs and PLs somehow.  That's up to them to figure out and may entail a number of methods.  I doubt a one size fits all will work anyway.  I know my own son almost never checks emails.  I know some scouts don't even have a phone, some until they are in their teens.  Others are not permitted on discord.  So I think your youth leaders are going to have to sort out what works person to person.  A lot goes on in the hallway of school too. 

Leave it up to them, but make sure they have a means and use it.

Also be sure your SPL knows how to reach you best and maintain YPT.  My SPL likes to use text messaging with me, but he always copies another leader too or his parents.  Prior SPL preferred email.  I think whatever they prefer is ideal.  You should change with them.

Coleman 6 person domes are $85 right now on Amazon.  They are tanks in my experience.  But... when the waterproofing fails, it does so in spectacular fashion. 

Our Scouts like buying their own tents, so we have allowed "at your risk" use of personal tents.  It's been pretty cool.  Scouts love it.  They get to see a wide variety of tents and styles.  Takes some cost pressure off the troop as our inventory is for "fallout" cases and new scouts who haven't invested yet. 

But at $85 on sale... coleman 6 man domes are unbeatable IMO.  They can withstand a literal flood and the rigors of regular Scout use.  They are tall enough for a Scout to stand in to change and comfortably fit 3 Scouts.  I've seen 6 go in one for the night (no gear) so ... it is possible They are easily serviced - you can get parts and shock cord easily and cheaply.  It's a pain but thrifty.  The only thing we don't bother with is serious waterproof failures.  We just keep the poles and stakes and retire the tent.  We'll often cut the bottom out for footprints.  The leftover poles, shock cord, etc. have given us enough spare parts we never buy anything.

our troop is only 20 years old.  I tasked our historian with this and was surprised that one phone call to council got him a list of the SMs from the past 20 years.  So... our council had that much.  Beyond that you will probably be challenged because people disperse to the wind.  Our first two SMs are sadly no longer with us.  Would definitely call council, they should have some amount of history for you.

If you have a good relationship with the SM - just ask them why.  It's not technically a YPT violation as long as 2up and no 1:1 but it's a bad look and officially all aspects are open to observation so if a parent pressed the issue they'd have to relent anyway.  I suspect they are having issues with parents who can't let the Scouts do their thing and rather than single someone out or maybe out of general frustration they went "scorched earth" on who can be in the building during meetings. 

update:  Our council is now charging $25 for MBC registration.  To cover the CBC.  It's understandable, but will def impact our MBC roster council-wide.  I guess the "good news" is that it seems to be ensuring the people who are left are really motivated counselors.  My recent experience is when a scout uses SB to "connect to" a MB counselor - they get rapid contact back.  So, that's pretty awesome and possibly a silver lining.

My unit was at one time 75 scouts strong.  I absolutely see the wisdom in BP's suggestion of 32 max.  We are at around 40 active scouts right now and I feel 100% there is no way I'm able to adequately get time with each.  The saving grace is we have a strong Scoutmaster Corp and really well trained youth leaders (NYLT for the win) and so it works.  Our unit has been "top heavy" - many years ago we received mega crossover groups from a pack.  Those mega groups will all age out together, just as they came in together.  We had 6 last year, we will have 5 this year.  Next year we have 8 I think.  Inbound has been weak so we're shrinking pretty rapidly.  Part of me feels some panic.  Part of me feels some relief and is at terms with the idea we might be drifting to a "right sized" Troop. 

I don't think it's about the number of scouts as much as what they are getting out of it.  If you're all burned out and they aren't having fun and growing as people as a result and no "fresh blood" is around to give you a break... it's probably time to think about what's best for the Scouts. 

Don't let money and trailers be the deciding factor.  Do what makes sense for the Scouts.

In our unit we treat Eagle COH as if a wedding reception.  The Eagle and their family do the planning.  From guest list to the ceremony.  The family is welcome to use our meeting place (the church) for the ceremony but very often secure their own venue.  Sometimes another church, rec hall or in the past they have even done it at the site of the Eagle Project itself. 

We have a COH outline, but the Scout and family can "make it their own".  They key is making it special for the Scout(s) and their family/families.

On 8/2/2023 at 9:29 AM, Delphinus said:

when a Scout achieves the rank, the Troop Advancement Chair just checks the completion of that rank in Scoutbook.

this is what we do.  We have 50 active scouts.  They use their books to track advancement and honestly it's good because we allow any ASM to sign off requirements and we also allow Star Scouts who have been trained by the SM to sign off for First Class and under.  No way with that number of scouts and that number of authorized signers that we'd get everything via online SB anyway.  Keeping SB updated from their paper books would be a full time job.  I have considered finding a volunteer to do it though - it would be amazing to have data to give to the PLC that X Scouts need a certain set of requirements.  It's just not practical for us.

The ONLY time I make an effort to load every single requirement from the paper book to SB is for Eagle Candidates.  At the SM Conf I take a photo of their book and before they request their application from council I make sure Scoutbook reflects the dates exactly as signed off.

On that note, one other thing I might start doing is retro-filling Star and Life MBs in Scoutbook.  Otherwise Scoutbook "just decides" which MBs were used for which ranks and that puts the online info completely out of sync with the paper handbook and it makes the eagle application, signoffs, etc. a lot harder as the official individual advancement record from SB is completely different than their handbook.

Ours is not, but I know of a council in Ohio that is.

I expect ours will follow suit.  It's also possible they are doing this already but I am not aware as I hold a fee-paid position already.

@Brannigan - I know you're getting a lot of shade implying you created the situation with this person with your email or comment.  I have been in your shoes with people like "Mr. Monster".

I re-entered Scouting 8 years ago as an adult (all prior experience was as a youth) thinking it would be very much a "we're all on the same team, we all want a good program, a Scout is friendly, rah-rah" atmosphere among the adult leaders.  Not exactly.  Many were welcoming, helpful and patient with my "dumb ideas" and rose colored glasses.  Some were deeply insecure and responded to any comment, idea or person that smells like "change" or something different with open hostility.  I'm not talking cold shoulder or bad attitude, I'm talking raised voices and F-bombs.  It's too bad.  Because it only takes 1 or 2 (I had 3) of the deeply insecure people to really make life unpleasant in a unit.

No kind of comment or opinion from someone new in a unit should elicit that kind of snap-back response.  This time it happened via email, but it will happen in person.  It's not you, it's definitely them.  I know exactly the type of person this is and unfortunately there are more of them in scouting leadership than people might like to admit. 

These people get into it with all kinds of people all the time over the stupidest stuff.  Last week one of my three got hot and started yelling at a new committee member because the committee member showed up in a tan uniform and that's only for ASMs and SMs.  I kid you not.  They took offense at a registered, paid position holder wearing a uniform to a meeting.  So much so they lashed out at them directly in person. 

There is no cure but time unless they are bad enough to take it upstream with a report to council or higher.  Scouting is generational.  They will move on or you will move up and have more direct ability to address it.  Until then, pick out who these people are, know they are how they are, and just be really careful around them.  They are wild animals.  It's not if they will bite you again but when.  And it'll probably be when you're not expecting it. 

The only "good news" I think I can share is that as crummy as these people have been towards me and many other adults (parents included) they have never been anything but excellent with the scouts.  That's probably their only saving grace.

What are some "leading questions" you keep in your mind to help point the SPL in the right direction and get them digging in on leading the Scouts at summer camp?  Some that I've been noodling:

• Gear check at arrival, any initial concerns about what you have seen?
• Review of cabin/tent mates, any personalities to be aware of?  Any concerns?
• Any goals for the Troop this week?  Spirit award?  Campsite inspection goals?
  • RE: those goals, do you have a plan and people lined up in your head to lead tasks (share the load)
• How do you want to organize the move-in?
• Any projects you have in mind for downtime?  Any activities?
  • Board game night
  • Troop basketball
  • Swimming?
  • Service project for camp?
  • Sign to hang in pavilion?
  • etc.
• Have you reviewed the schedule for the week?  What camp activities do we need to prep for?
  • Do we know the dining hall process?
  • What time are flags and does everyone know proper dress and prep (troop flag?)
  • Campfire programs?
  • Competitions?
  • etc
• What's the plan for general campsite hygiene?
  • Trash?
  • Sweep/clean bunks?
  • Bathhouse restock / cleaning?
  • Showers?
  • Buddy system, check in/out of camp so we have a general idea who's with who and where (clothespins?  Notebook?)
• PLC First Day Topics
  • Do you know what Patrols are present and who the PL or acting PLs are for each?
  • Make sure PLs and acting PLs know their responsibilities, set expectations with them early and often.
  • Remind PLs to set example with uniform wearing for meals / campfires
    • THEY should be primarily responsible to ensure their Patrol shows up proper and ready
  • Remind PLs to keep an eye on their patrol members for any concerns and bring discreetly to SPL and/or Leaders when needed
    • Homesickness
    • Illness
    • Personality Conflicts
  • Remind PLs they are responsible (first line) for ensuring their Patrol bunks/tents are livable
  • Any plans to have a PLC daily to share info, discuss concerns?
  • Review camp policies, discuss with PLC and get approval for in-camp time at night and hard lights out time
    • Final sign off required by SM
  • How do you guys plan to ensure everyone's up on time and ready?
  • Does everyone know where the first aid kit is? 
  • Does everyone know what to do in case of lightning or bad weather?
• Big Siblings
  • Maybe go around and talk to older scouts discreetly.  Remind them a lot of younger and first year scouts may get homesick.  Encourage them to be supportive of each other, but let's also not make "missing home" be a broadcast topic.  If a younger scout says they miss home, it's great to engage them, share that it's normal, share your own experience and how it turned out okay and that everyone is here for you.  But, don't go up to the first year and say things like "I bet you're pretty homesick", etc.  Be tactful.

Example of what our weekly newsletter looks like leading up to an outing.  This is last year ahead of a canoe trip. 

I put the template together and have it on Google Drive.  During PLC, the SPL and Scribe make a copy of the template and fill it out in Google Docs in real time.  After the Webmaster can literally copy/paste this into our calendar.  It makes the PLC go quickly, gives structure but the Scouts still do all the "grunt work" and it ensures we capture all the detail for both Scouts/Parents but for us as leaders to ensure we've checked all the planning boxes.

Here is the event logistics template as prepared.  The PLC takes first swing, then the Adult Coordinator, SM and Scout In Charge manage updates.

First link in equipment list is a link to our website article on what to bring camping, lifted almost verbatim from handbook but with some regional specifics important for our program.

We do annual planning the weekend or two after school ends for the summer/following year.

We send this tentative plan to all families as soon as the PLC confirms it and Committee Chair reviews it (they are often at planning conference)

This sets the dates and tentative theme for all our outings.  We leave the meeting specifics for later monthly PLCs.  PLC meets first Thursday of the month and sets detailed meeting plans for any meeting that will happen before the next scheduled PLC.  After the PLC, the webmaster updates our troop website calendar with detailed meeting plans.

We use this template provided by Scouts BSA:
https://troopleader.scouting.org/troop-meetings/

We use Troop Web Host for our troop site.  The site allows a weekly newsletter to be scheduled.  It goes every Sunday at noon.

TWH also supports adding the calendar to your phone's google/outlook/whatever calendar.

Between the newsletter, website calendar, and phone calendars - people are usually pretty well informed about our plans.

For outings, the SM or ASM supports the PLC in completing these for each outing:
https://troopleader.scouting.org/main-event-project-planning/

Our hopeful approach to this is I assign an ASM as outing coordinator and we select a Scout In Charge, usually the SPL if they will attend.  Another Senior Scout or ASPL if not.  Those two have executive approval to set the plan in accordance with the PLC's approved high level plan.  For example:  If we are canoing and it turns out our outfitter does not have enough Canoes those two can unilaterally decide to supplement with Kayaks.  Or if our original campsite is unavailable, they can find a Plan B without being hindered by plan-by-committee.

Those plans are posted/kept on our website calendar too and go out in the weekly newsletter.  As they change, they are updated directly on the website so they are just organically included every week.

For "other" stuff I just send a periodic update as needed.

On 6/12/2023 at 9:56 AM, InquisitiveScouter said:

- The Boy Scouts of America is a corporation; Scouting is a movement.  The two are separable, in spite of the attempts of the former to monopolize the latter in our country.  (If the BSA goes Chapter 7, what will you do?)

hear, hear!

$140 per youth / $100 per adult in our council this year.  Not a rumor.

Also moving to an annual renewal vs. everyone renewing at one time.  I presume to avoid the "crush" that comes from every unit in council submitting paperwork at one time.

Also, I have come to 100% rely on the roster at my.scouting.org - I think this will be the norm.  Just as you use it to manage training expiration (which have all been different for a long time) you will now use it to manage membership expiration.

Same as above.  We stockpile some patches.  SM gives them to SPL to give out at conclusion of elections or at the end of the meeting if the SPL makes any POR appointments mid-cycle (QM, scribe, etc.)

SPL/ASPLs are expected to hound the PORs to get patched up.

I've thought for a while that a "uniform maintenance night" would be a good meeting theme now and again.  Might suggest that at our annual planning.  Scouts really ought to be able to sew on any patch with a merrow border.

Sounds fun to me... 

I guess it depends on how it's done.  I can also make a hike regimented if I really try.