thrifty

We're in Ohio!   

Thanks for the input everyone.  I'll slap together a 'good enough' kit from what we have in the cars and house.  We have more than most people.  Borrowing the troop kit is not an option. 

He has no interest in awards but I'm aware of the National Outdoor Award Metal.  He already has several of the requirements done without any intent towards the award but its unlikely he'll do the Backpacking MB.

My son is taking wilderness first aid in a few weeks.  He wants to do this for his own knowledge, he's not doing any high adventure.  He has to bring a wilderness first aid kit with him.  I'm wondering what he will do with it in class and how thorough it needs to be?  Will he be using his supplies in the class?  We've got several first aid kits and I could combine them and probably make a decent size kit, more than enough gauze and misc. but he wouldn't have things like a tourniquet.  The class isn't cheap.  I don't really want to go out and buy a bunch of expensive stuff we are likely to never use but I also don't want him to be embarrassed if he doesn't have something he needs.  I need some input from anyone that has advice.  Of course the troop has a nice big kit with lots of goodies but this is not a troop function.  Thank you.

Our SM would never accept a BC that had the original class crossed out.  He signed the card based on the original scout request for the BC.  The intent is not to scratch it out and then do whatever you want (unless this has something to do with a scout being signed up for a specific class and then being forced to take a different one because of cancellation or similar).

Saw this today.  The 2020 Explorers Law Enforcement National conference is being held at Summit Bechtel.  This event is usually held at a college campus and alternates between east and west coast.  https://www.exploring.org/nleec-experience/

This will be the first year that my son will be able to attend if his post goes so I don't have any prior experience to compare it to.  We have been to Summit.  I think that Summit may offer opportunities that the explorers may not have gotten in the past such as shotgun or climbing.  I wonder how much the explorers will get to do these activities with only three full days at camp.  My understanding is that much of the conference time will be used for law enforcement skill competitions.  Explorers aren't necessarily into camping or hiking so it seems like the BSA is forcing a square peg into a round hole.  The video in the link has Customers and Border Protection explorers in the video so it seems like there must have been a test run to get opinions.  One of the teens mentions he was worried about the heat, doesn't say when they were there.  I would be just as concerned about rain.  I don't see many of the explorers being happy if they're forced to hike through muddy trails in the rain to get to events.  Its not even clear to me if the events would be at Summit, but I would hope so, otherwise their just camping there and traveling to events.  It also feels like BSA is twisting the Explorers brand.  I feel it is meant to be youth exploring career interests, not youth exploring the world.

I recommend getting scouts opinion on type of tents, they will be the ones using them. 

Our committee is in charge of funds to prevent overspending or misallocation.  SM is in charge of the scouts.  Our QMs have never been very good because of lack of training.  No Equip. Coord..  Usually SM tells committee the scouts need tents. Budget would have been set aside for general equipment wear and tear replacement, usually enough to cover several tents or misc each year but even better if its not needed.  SM says we need 3 tents, treasurer says ok we budgeted enough to cover those but any other new gear will need to be discussed.  CC asks for a 'second' from the committee to confirm spending the money.  If anyone has a problem they just speak up.  If enough people disagree then its voted, majority wins.  Ultimately the CC is in charge, so CC would have final call but that can come off as an abuse of power in our group.  This process works well for our group.  We had drama in the past when individuals wanted to purchase a few high-end tents for the scouts and would have emptied the troop's account.

If you go with Eureka, as some others have suggested, call their customer service and explain that you want to buy multiple tents specifically for scouts.  I haven't done this for a few years but at the time, we were able to get them for approx. $150 each when they retailed for closer to $300.  Ask if there's any free shipping deal also.  If you are buying multiple tents, I recommend contacting any tent manufacturer directly to see if there is anything they can do for you before buying retail.

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

The yearbook my daughter just bought at her high school cost $70. 

WTH $70 for a yearbook?  My wife is asleep or I'd be asking her right now what she paid for my son's.  First thing tomorrow, I'm going to find out.  I cant believe for a moment that she would pay anywhere near that amount and if she did, it wont happen again.  What could possibly make a year book cost that much?

For your leftovers;

in our area, one of the thrift store chains, Savers, has a fundraiser option.  See link.  The committee talked about doing this but never got it off the ground so I don't have any experience. 

https://fundrive.savers.com/

Easter Seals in our area also has some kind of  'fill a truck' fundraiser where everyone fills a cargo truck with goods and its weighed and they are given funds.  I don't think most groups actually fill the truck full, just with whatever they can.  You could plan and combine what you already have, if it meets their rules, and also put out a social media request for people to drop stuff off at a certain location at a certain day and see how much you can get.

The flea market guy might give you a better deal, I don't know.

Love this!  We have a few different thrift stores in the area that I enjoy going to and I've found over 40 uniforms in the past three years.   2 or 3 that still had tags on them.  takes time to get the badge magic off but not too important if someone is sewing new patches on top of it.  I wonder what will happen to the majority of the LDS uniforms of the scouts that quit?

21 hours ago, mrkstvns said:

What I like about their MBU is that they ASK merit badge counselors how much time they need for their badge, and that's how much time they are alotted. Some classes might be 2 hours, some 3, some 4, some 5 or more....it depends on the content and the counselor (as it should). 

d operated, some are very well planned and operated. One of the BEST is done by Orion District. 

I imagine it can be a bit tricky for some scouts to schedule their time, but at least the time they spend will be time well spent...

Here's what that district's schedule looks like...
http://orion.shac.org/Data/Sites/24/media/merit-badge-university/mbu-2019.pdf

Any thoughts on that approach???

 

That's how some do it in our area.  The counselors also determine how many scouts they are willing to instruct and what pre-reqs need done prior to the class.

Here's a link from another council that has posted a letter from National.

https://www.jerseyshorescouts.org/nationalbsaletter?fbclid=IwAR2ck1uu2m-6KzrrBL3BMnELMBq4_4mEiiiwRWx950hAn6dDCTQ5X7KyRTA

This was posted to council facebook page 10 minutes ago.

"I want to make you aware that late yesterday we were informed that the National Council, Boy Scouts of America, is considering a fee increase for 2020. While the fee increase would be effective beginning this recharter process, unfortunately, the amount of any increase will not be known until approximately November 1, 2019.

We recognize the timing on this likely fee increase creates challenges as units have already begun communicating and collecting fees ...for their 2020 registration renewal process. As soon as we know more, we will share it.

I realized my question might not have a simple answer but didn't intend for it to go so far off topic.  I will just accept that GSUSA probably doesn't want to be involved with World Organization of the Scout Movement.  I'm just curious about the dynamics of these various groups and how it all fits together.  Seems like the GSUSA would fit well with the more liberal point of view I've been seeing from European scouts on Facebook for the past year.

My family was only at WSJ on Sat. but we had a great time. No complaints for our one day.  Arrival and departure were easy and everyone was nice. 

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

1. Bending over backwards to be sure GS/USA is invited. We had the potential to reach balanced sex ratios. Guide's from other countries commented on their conspicuous absence.

 

I wondered about this.  I saw posts about Girl Guides being as WSJ and that is the equivalent of GSUSA correct?  That's the whole reason for qwazse's comment.  Can anyone explain to me the relationship, if any, between GSUSA and WS? 

I like all of qwazse's other ideas. 

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

Finally, if a scout packed light, he/she could take a tent home in his luggage. (I sure hope nobody tried to carry on a bag of tent stakes.)

At least several people did try to take the tent with stakes and poles as a carry on because there was a warning not to do this posted on the WSJ Facebook page after some people had to leave their tents behind.

can't comment on Jack Links but I bought one of each variety Country Meats from a local troop and thought they were disgusting.  Would not buy again but probably a good fundraiser b/c it's only $1.

Our troop does them and I don't care for them.  As a PL, my son had several interactions with scouts that could not afford pants that would quickly be outgrown, over priced socks or a belt that would be worn once a week for an hour.  He'd tell them to be as prepared as they could and that's what they did.  But when the SM has everyone line up by patrol like a military drill and the PL's check off boxes on the uniform sheet, all that does is bring attention to the fact that some scouts did not have the entire uniform.  Well guess what, those scouts aren't with the troop anymore.  I was the only person interested in starting a uniform exchange so that didn't get very far.  When a scout earns a rank or leadership position, those patches are given to him/her.  I think its reasonable to request a few minutes of effort to update the shirt but I'd rather have a scout family spend $30 on a campout then on a pair of official pants that rarely get used.

I don't like it when labels are thrown around.  Unless someone is familiar with the troop and scouts, it's impossible to know what the personality of a specific troop is like.  Maybe the scouts are motivated and having so much fun that Eagle comes naturally.  That being said, I know many adults, including leaders, who believe that Eagle should be the end result of scouting. SM told my son that the MB he wanted to do wasn't important because it wasn't an Eagle.  I agree with DuctTape and he said it better then I could.

I could talk about this topic all day if given the chance.  Lots of negative opinions about this type of activity from scouters, doesn't matter if it is in this forum or many other places.  My son has been to a lot of these all over the state because he has a desire to do so and I see it as a learning opportunity.  Learning not only the MB but also how people, scouting and regions of our state are different.  We've had nothing but great experiences. 

Every complaint I've read about these events, I have also witnessed at summer camps and even in our own troop.  Adults will either take the MB requirements seriously or they will cut corners.  The event isn't the problem, it's the type of personalities that deem it ok to cut corners and people like that are everywhere.  I feel that most summer camp MBs are a joke from what I've witnessed and been told.

Every MB event that we've been to has clearly defined the pre-reqs as well as what will be covered.  My son has talked to counselors that were experts in their fields and very passionate about what they were doing and has been inspired by some of them.  He's had opportunities to learn in environments that summer camp could never hope to equal.

MB events are somewhat convenient compared to the scout calling a random MBC.  I don't see this as any different from summer camp supplying counselors or troops that have registered in-house MBCs for everything.  My son has contacted random MBCs that say they would help but then never respond to his messages and he's had trouble finding counselors in our area for some badges.  Our counsel has started planning and hosting more of these events at our local camps.

does the troop ask that a specific woggle be used?  if not, some creativity could turn it into one.

35 minutes ago, David CO said:

 

It has become a common practice in some places to wear pajama-like clothing in public. In my day, this would have been just as unacceptable as going out in public in your underwear. 

I was at a wake tonight.  It was very informal, I was probably the only person in a suit and maybe one of eight that had a tie on.  Most were in t-shirts and jeans because that's what they own and no one expected anything else.  The wife and son told me later that someone actually wore pajama pants.  The three of us agreed that maybe that was crossing a line even for this easy going family situation.  But at least she came to honor the deceased and that is more important.

I hate the JC Penny sketch just because I've seen it more than any other skit.  There have been scouts in underwear and shorts but I thought the best solution was the scout that held a bath towel around his waist.  I could imagine the other scouts taking his clothes while he was swimming or showering.

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 3:29 PM, HelpfulTracks said:

Oh, one more note. 

Velco works great, but sewing it on is a major hassle unless you have a heavy duty machine. I paid a lady I knew to do sew on the velcro. She asked that I not bring it to her again. 

The Velcro I buy at Joann Fabric has adhesive on the back of both parts.  No sewing required.  That adhesive has never come off the uniform or the patches even after several years.  Soft side goes on the uniform, plastic goes on the patch.  It can also be pealed off the uniform but will leave a residue.  The residue can also be removed with a lot of work but there will always be a discoloration on that area of the uniform.

I try to always refer to the scouts as such when in their presence.  I usually call them boys if I'm at home and they can't hear me.  I've known many of them as cubs and I didn't call them cubs at that time but I try to be a little more respectful as they are older.  Same with the girls now.

in March my son was leading the campfire program and said Boy Scouts during his presentation.  He was quickly corrected that it was now Scouts BSA by an ASM that is also participating in our girl troop.  There were no girls at this campout.  My son said it didn't bother him.  I wasn't there but hearing about it bothered me.  I'm sure it was innocent enough but it just rubs me the wrong way.  I don't care what's on the paperwork now or what any leadership says, it's still Boys Scouts for us.  We just had our annual fundraiser for the boy troop and I don't tell our relatives they are coming to a Scout BSA event, they'd just be confused.  My son joined Boy Scouts and has been in Boy Scouts for years.  I will continue to call it Boy Scouts long after he's aged out.  I'll make an effort not to do so around the girls but most people outside of the BSA don't understand Scouts BSA.  I also just say Scouts sometimes now but with the official GSUSA and Scouts BSA girls saying "Scouts" is just as confusing in my opinion.   

23 hours ago, seattlescouter said:

I received a blue card and the MB counselor only wrote on the requirements sections "Needs #4", but did not list and initial/date any of the requirements that the scout completed.

Can this be considered sufficient, or do I need to track the counselor down to get it filled out correctly?

Thanks!

My Life scout has 44 MBs from all over the state and I can tell you that each counselor will do things differently.  It can be frustrating sometimes but it's not the scout's fault and I don't think it's the scout's responsibility to demand a blue card is filled out in a certain manner as long as the counselor signature and the date it was completed are included or in this case noted that requirement #4 still needs done.  Was the counselor info filled out?  Your example is odd.  Usually when my son had a partial, the counselors put initials on the requirements he's done and leave the counselor info blank for the last counselor to sign off when fully completed.  The counselor that finishes the MB with him fills in the counselor details, signs and dates complete.  I would be concerned that a counselor helps the scout with #4 but doesn't want to sign off the blue card as completed if everything else is blank.  It shouldn't be too hard for the scout to track down the counselor and get an email confirmation of the situation to provide to any future counselor of #4 versus having to schedule a meeting and driving back to wherever they went.

5 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Are you saying that the normal natural talents of these girls in a patrol method program were enough to earn them the highest skills awards in the district, in just one month? Somebody was trying to prove something. Was it the girls?

The list was warned about this. There is a reason single gender is preferred for growth in this age group. Not just scouts, but any area where growth is the primary objective. When one gender has an advantage to gain recognition or power over the other gender,  the other gender naturally feel disheartened and belittled. The natural reaction is retreating away from the situation.

In this case, the boys aren't just competing against girls, but the adults as well. If the girls really are that good, then there is no hope because I've never heard of a new scouts doing so well so fast. But, it's not really that, boys aren't stupid. The well dressed cheering adults standing next to that troop is the real advantage against boy run troops were adults are encourage to stand back. Why in the world would boys want to join an organization where girls are continually propped up as the good of scouting, and given advantages in their competition. Who wants that? We saw it on this forum for the last year. "Let the girls show the boys how to do it".

Hey, if Sablanck  had a boys troop leave the camporee with all the awards, would he give a big thumbs up for boys? Truth is the boys are going to have to put up with this stuff for quite awhile because women are the thing these days. It's on the news, the movies, and sports. Hey, what is the national theme this month? Meanwhile the boys are expected to keep doing their patrol method without the same kind of adult assistance for performance.

And when the patrols are mixed, adults will praise the great leadership of the weaker sex as well. As I said, I observed over the years that girls are instinctively detail minded and that is an advantage over the instinctively visionary boys. Many adults will enjoy and justify the great leadership of the girls, and even how girls are more mature and better at these things. Adults can't help themselves, but at the same time, the boy run program now requires adult intervention just to kind of keep growth fair. Growth through independence will fade away and be replaced by accolades of advancement recognition and the stature of leadership. It's the times I guess. 

Remember your story of your daughter slapping the hand of the "Oklahoma" Boy who offered his help. Explain again why slapping away the offering of help "from a boy" was a good thing?

Barry

I joined an international scouting facebook page months ago because I was curious and because international scouting is constantly used as an example of why girls should be in the BSA and why it will work.  I have a lot of good and bad opinions about what has been posted on that page.  I just read a comment a few days ago and wish I would have kept a screen shot.  It didn't originate because of any co-ed argument but was just a UK leader's nonchalant comment about her group.  I am paraphrasing but she said something to the effect of "I'm glad that scouting is coed, the girls are the first to volunteer for everything."  Well, that can be taken several ways but I think it justifies some of my concerns about girls in scouting.  I'm not worried about girl troops.  I'm worried because I don't trust the BSA and eventually it will be co-ed troops. 

10 hours ago, karunamom3 said:

I know this is an older topic, but if you are going with day passes, how many days are you going for?

we are going for just Saturday.  Got a room, so driving down the night before.  I believe visitors are kicked out at 5pm so we'll just drive home then.

I just want my son to have a chance to experience WSJ without spending thousands of dollars so the one day should be enough.  We've never been to the Summit either so it's two birds with one stone.  He obviously won't get that summer camp type experience but we're getting what we paid for. 

I'm wondering if there will be any opportunity to trade with other scouts during the day while we are there.  Visitors aren't allowed in the camping areas and we have to leave at 5pm. Scouts should be at activities all day right?  Without any kind of prior experience, its difficult to envision what this will be like.  I just assume it will be organized chaos similar to a large fair or camporee.