thrifty

If my treasurer insisted on half of those proposals, I'd never get anything accomplished.  No bank cards?  All camp deposits and payments are made on the internet these days.  So I'm supposed to register everyone's camp on my credit card, incur interest, and hope to get two of the signers together some day to write a check (which I'm sure isn't going to pay me back my bank fees).  Two signatures on checks?  Is that even offered as an option anymore?  This lock-down procedure may work for larger non-profits, where you expect a treasurer to remain in position for a good number of years, and serious dollars are coming in.  But for a Cub Scout Pack where I'm changing leaders every two years, and the account never creeps over $1500, it's overkill.

 The banking in our troop is the one thing that works efficiently in my opinion.  Everyone wants their money so the treasurer gets receipts in a timely manner and signers are treasurer, SM, ASM and CC.  We all show up at every meeting before or after because our boys are there.  Most of the time we just sit in another room during the meeting because its easier then going home.  Treasurer always has the check book with her.  Anyone turning in a receipt can be reimbursed same day or at most a week if she's not there.  Can even drop it off during the week if needed. 

I don't know your situation but using the example you provided, you would print the confirmation of payment by credit card and give it to the treasurer at the weekly meeting and probably have a check that night.  Even if you waited until a statement arrived for some reason, you aren't immediately charged interest (not on my cards anyway) and there would be plenty of time to get you a check.

We don't change treasurers every two years either.  She was treasurer when our son joined cubs until he crossed over and she became treasurer for scouts until he leaves.  New accountant took over treasurer for cubs and its up to that person if she wants to keep the policy but I believe she has.

We also have always had what I call "cowboys" (no offense to any real cowboys) that feel they know what's bets and do what they want without clearing it by anyone first.  A bank card would be very dangerous in their hands.  Cubmaster was telling me a story the other day about one of the den leaders wanted the boys to make a lamp as a gift.  I think it was mothers day cause this was an old story.  Anyway, the den leader went to all of these fancy craft stores to buy supplies and by the time it was done, the homemade lamp by a scout was $45 each.  Den leader didn't understand what the problem was.  Things like that will quickly bankrupt a small group.

You gotta do what works for you.  It might only be $1500 in the account but I know someone that ruined their life for $2k.  People get desperate and bad things happen.  ounce of prevention vs pound of cure.

Good advice already posted above.  Wife and I are accountants with 40 years experience between us.  In the past she volunteered to be the cubs treasurer.  The previous guy had been doing it for a long time but requested to step down and became a no-show and was only communicating through occasional emails.  She finally got the "books" from him and he hadn't balanced the account in over a year.  Don't think there was anything shady going on, he just didn't want to or couldn't do it anymore.  She got the books balanced and we moved forward. 

I don't think an audit will do much good.  There was all kinds of unprofessional things going on with our group, not shady, just inappropriate.  The records were so poor sometimes, it was impossible to know what money was spent on.  Good or bad, the COs at our cubs and the scouts are not involved at all and would not be much help. 

A few tips from an accountant that you may already know.  The following suggestions will require more effort for everyone involved but will make the bank account more secure and protect you as treasurer. 

Two check signers on every check, with no more than four possible signers.  Guarantees that a third person knows what funds are being spent on and how much.  DO NOT make your spouse a signer if you are.  If anyone is upset that Joe spent $500 on crafts and you gave him the check, you can say you confirmed it was ok with Bob because he signed the check too.  Also unlikely but not impossible that four signers would be corrupt together.  Two signers should guarantee that the treasurer can't write themselves a check for the entire balance of the account.  Your bank would set this up.

Avoid collecting cash if possible and NEVER pay by cash.  Checks are proof of receipt and can be easily traced.  You can't avoid all cash but the less, the better.

The bank account will most likely have an online account.  This should only be used to balance and print statements.  Never use it for any type of transaction. 

No bank debit cards if possible.  There is no control of funds.

No blank checks.  There is no control of funds.  This caused a lot of controversy in our scout committee but seems like common sense to me.  Why would you give anyone the opportunity to take every penny in the account?  We are all friends at committee but I don't know their personal lives and they don't know mine, good people do bad things all the time.  It is inconvenient but we feel its necessary to protect the funds.  

Watch bank fees.  Its our understanding that a non-profit should not be charged bank fees.  It was a long battle with two different banks on two separate occasions but we got bank fees removed and reimbursed for overcharged fees.  Some of these fees were high because the balances in the accounts were small (ridiculous).

Start fresh when you are treasurer and don't overwhelm yourself trying to investigate the mess from the past.

_{I'm late to this topic, but I would like your response to this:  I am outings coordinator for our troop.  We had a committee meeting last week. We have approx $5,000 in our bank account.  K of C gave us a check for $500.  I suggested that we part with some money and pay for a corn maze night for the scouts.  Shot down.  Our troop has no dues.  One fundraiser (nuts) 60% to troop, 40% to ISA.  We just put new tires on the troop trailer and had some re-wiring done.  Oh and if your troop goes to $0 every year, you have no seed money?  I just spent $1000 making reservations at various outings for the next 6 months.  (one cabin camping in the winter is almost $600, had to be paid up front).  This will be reimbursed as the scouts pay for the outings.}

Its my opinion that you should have a year worth of budget/expenses in reserve if you are lucky enough to be able to do so.  I'm not referring to things like campouts that could be postponed or changed but costs such as purchasing badges, replacing broken gear, plates on the trailer, etc..  There's always the chance that whatever fundraising the troop does will not be enough to cover future costs, so having a rainy-day fund will give the committee/troop enough time to come up with plan B to put $ back into the bank.  We had snow in April, one week before our yearly fundraiser.  If it had snowed the day of the fundraiser, I think it would have been a failure and we would have been insolvent because we didn't have any reserve funds. The fundraiser worked and now we do have a reserve but its a constant struggle to remind everyone that the troop bank account is not a money tree.   

On the flip side, too much $ in the bank means that the boys aren't seeing any benefit from their hard work except a bank account balance. 

So, oldest is trying to come up with ways to inspire the patrols to do what they are suppose to do. He came up with putting a pie in an ASM's face for the top patrol after 2 or three months. I'm game, but what are your thoughts.

I can't offer any input about this and the older scouts but was talking to our local cubmaster and he used this idea as part of the incremental rewards for popcorn sales last year.  If a boy sold a certain dollar amount of popcorn, he got to put a pie in the face of an adult leader of his choosing.  Only costs a few dollars to do and the cubmaster was very happy with the results.  Happy cubs and more sales.

He would have liked to have gotten parents involved with this.  The boys could have put a pie in mom or dad's face.  Y'know how that goes.  More likely to see bigfoot than parents helping out around here.

I assume that most boyscout camps are open year round.  I'm sure that summer camp is when they make most of their money but our closest camp has events for cubs, Klondike, camporees, training, etc..   We are located in a suburb in the northeast.  We aren't far from nature but we can't just pack up and go rifle shooting in someone's backyard.  We need the camp for things like shooting and climbing while also letting the boys "be free" and not have to worry about what other campers at some public place might think.  I don't have very many memories of scouting but I do remember camp.  It was cool to see so many scouts at one time.  Wish our troop did more with other troops to emphasize that we are part of a larger whole.

Each boy scout camp has its own identity too.  Our troop has camped at several camps not in our area during the off season and its fun to see how each is unique.

Seems like the camps are not used to their full potential though.

With regards to summer camp merit badges, I agree with you.  My son has been to two different camps and at this point, I feel like camp merit badges are a joke. 

The camps don't have the proper equipment or enough counselors or the teenage counselors don't feel like making an effort, etc..  Wife and I are on the fence as to whether or not we send him to camp next year if he even wants to go.

With all due respect, I disagree with probably most of the people on this forum.  I do not view summer camp as some kind of vacation for my son.  Our troop has traditionally used summer camp to fulfill many of the T21 requirements.  Like it or not, it was expressed to us that without summer camp, it would be a long time for crossovers to achieve a lot of the requirements.  My wife and I encourage him to have new and rewarding experiences as much as he can in life but the hundreds of dollars for summer camp is different than $30 for a weekend camping trip.  I want him to have fun but I expect summer camp to teach him something for the $400 I pay them.  If I just wanted him to have a vacation, I'd put that $400 towards a family vacation (something we didn't have this year).  Yes, he could be earning the money himself and a scout should pay his own way.  But the reality is that if my twelve year old earned $400, we would be telling him to put it in the bank and save it for the future instead of spending it.  This may all sound kind of harsh, it isn't meant to be.  Last year he spent his free time at camp shooting.  So now he knows he likes to shoot so he took the Rifle merit badge this year.  Learning and fun at the same time.  If you can tell me where there is a free camp, I’ll let him go all summer and do whatever he wants.

I’m not sure I could identify a merit badge farm.  The two camps that he has been to had different methods but achieved the same goals.  A boy could theoretically earn 4 or 5 badges.  One camp had a class each day, the other camp had several classes each day but split them up throughout the day.  Some classes were longer or didn’t fit the exact schedule such as some Eagle classes or if there was an outpost.  I don’t remember the exact schedule but by late afternoon, everyone was on their own to do whatever they wanted.  Not sure why there be paperwork unless the scout didn’t prepare and do the prereq’s before coming.

Thank you all for your input.  My personal disappointment with the summer camp situation is that I know some boys will not get to go next year.  We have a few boys that did not go this year because of what appears to be financial issues.  Another parent told me that he's not paying for his son to go back next year.  With increases in camp costs and what the troop assesses on top of that, it will be approx. $500.  Then there's the sticker shock for brand new parents that cross over.  Even if enrollment increases as it should, I won't be surprised if there are less boys that go next year.  In our troop, summer camp has a big impact on T21.  So no summer camp means less requirements get done for the lower ranks.

I think this troop has the same problems as any other troop or organization.  Not enough time, not enough money and not enough volunteers.  It is against my nature but I will have to be like the three monkeys; see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.  I'll plug my ears, close my  eyes and bite my tongue for the time being.

our SM is easy-going and asks the boys about the badges before he hands out blue cards but has never assigned a counselor as far as I know.  I have a feeling our future SM will be the exact opposite and will give the boys the third-degree before allowing blue cards.

My son and another boy had partials for Game Design from summer camp last year.  As new parents, we never got an explanation of pre-req's so he wasn't prepared with game ideas and its not necessarily easy to come up with that stuff on the fly.  After camp, both boys said it was an awful experience and wanted nothing more to do with it.  A year later, my son is entertaining himself by creating games (like he always has) and I finally get him to put some stuff on paper so he can complete the badge.  He needs a counselor to ok his design and then playtest it with the troop and report back to the counselor. 

I asked the SM, a committee member and our advancement coordinator about this counselor list and got the run-around from all of them.  These are people I communicate with throughout the month.  Each pointed the finger at the other.  No one had the list.  Finally, the advancement coordinator had the newest list.  He gives me a name and ph# for the only counselor in our district.  I wasn't allowed to see the list.  My son calls and eventually talks to the person but the list wasn't updated and this person isn't a counselor anymore.  Now we started over, and got two more names for people out of our district and we'll get it done but his motivation is gone again.

On top of this, when I asked where the partial blue card was, I got blank stares.  No one gave it to us and we didn't know we should have gotten it.  The SM and ASMs didn't know or remember my son had a partial at camp.  Finally, the SM found it in paperwork somewhere.  He also found 4 other partials, one for the other boy in Game Design and the others were for boys that had aged out.  I was so upset through this whole process, I was ready to call the camp and see if they could provide me a copy or something but I didn't want to embarrass the troop.

My only peace of mind is that he's only 12 so we have plenty of time to get it done before he's 18.  I've got the impression that our troop is only accustom to having merit badges earned at summer camp and a few miscellaneous classes here and there.  There's never any talk about boys earning badges on their own but mine will be.

We felt as parents that our son didn't need his own email for a long time because it wasn't necessary for anything he does and would only lead to negatives (spam that makes me blush, etc..)  He's now 12 and his school is very technology oriented (unfortunately, in my opinion) so it became necessary to have his own email so he could communicate with teachers and others.  Various troop members send emails.  The SM, ASMs, SPL, and PL send emails to the boys depending on what it's involving.  All email contacts (parents & boys) are copied on most emails.  The only emails he receives that we do not is at the PL level.  If we see an email has arrived, we tell him to check his email and then ask him what it was about so we know that he actually read it.  We've had to make an effort (us & him) to remember for him to check the email every few days so he doesn't miss a PL email.  Only 12 and he's already chained to his email.

Typically eagle projects and service projects are announced in advance for planning purposes so he's aware of them and has been willing to go in the past.  We would encourage but not force him to go if he felt he didn't want to go to one.  I guess it depends on his reasons why.  We just had an email about a service project that takes place over the holiday weekend with no advance notice.  This is poor planning/communication and as parents (who would also be volunteering), we do not condone this and are not going. 

I just had a conversation with a college age eagle scout the other day and he expressed that he did not like camping at all.  I know that all of the scouts don't like all of the activities that they participate in.  I like that the eagle badges emphasize the ideals of scouting but the other badges can cater to individual preference.  I just suggested that our troop participate in a nuclear science badge opportunity that is coming to our area soon.

I'm confident that scouts will teach my son many things.  The appreciation of the outdoors being only one of many.

I'm not familiar with that pilot program but I was looking at the NOVA/STEM details recently and in one year, without even knowing it, my son has already gotten the merit badges necessary to complete the requirements for each nova module.  He'll just need to do the extra research.

STEM has an impact on our daily lives including scouts.  It has given us the tents, packs, rifles, bows, etc.. that we use all the time. 

I was recently given a few old tents that have aluminum poles and need assembled piece by piece.  I don't think the tents are usable but thought the scouts should put them up anyway.  we can check them and I don't think most of the scouts have ever put together a tent that didn't have fiberglass poles.  Maybe it would make them appreciate what they have more.  One of those "when I was your age.." moments.

I've been lurking on these forums recently while looking for a better understanding of all things "scout."  I've found a lot of your opinions on various topics informative.  I'm definitely jealous of how well-run your troops seem to be.  I think some of my questions are relating to this topic, I hope I'm not hijacking the thread.  How old are the boys in your leadership positions?

I keep reading various comments about adults interfering with boy lead groups and the boys should be running the troop, etc...  Our troop is boy lead but I have concerns about this.  Our SPL recently turned 16.  He's one of the oldest boys in the troop after several aged out in the past 2 years.  Our PL's are 12 or 13 and the APL's have just turned 12.  The SPL is very mature for his age and deserves the position but could use some more experience.  I'm not trying to undermine the contributions these younger boys can make to the troop and they do work with the newest scouts but shouldn't there be more adult involvement when you are working with kids this age?  I keep my opinions to myself but I just don't get it.

A few examples - A PL sent out an email asking for his patrol to meet up to go shopping for groceries prior to camping.  It was 3:30 in the afternoon on a weekday.  How are any of the others going to get to the store if their parents are at work?  No arrangements such as sharing a ride were suggested.  The boys at 2016 summer camp voted to have 2017 camp at the same place.  SM paid the deposit while there.  Shouldn't that have required at least some discussion with parents or committee?  Most of the boys don't even know how much it cost.  It was an expensive camp and I know some parents were not happy about this choice made without them. 

Our son consistently says that they don't do anything during their weekly meetings.  I recently witnessed a PLC for the first time and most of the boys sat there just staring at the table, waiting to go home.  The SM did a good job of "forcing" some of them to contribute but why wouldn't more adult input be desired? 

Long-winded post for a newbie.