JosephMD

When one is a member of a troop and a crew they need two different uniforms.  One does not wear a Sea Scout uniform with an Eagle rank sewn on.

 

I have three different uniforms for Scouting, one as UC, one as SM, and one as CA.  Even then I don't wear knots on the UC shirt, but I do on the SM and CA uniforms.  I wear what is appropriate for the activity I am involved with.   

Yes - they do need two different uniforms.  I'm no board with that.

I have two, one as a MC, long sleeve, and one as a CA (I'm assuming CA means, Chapter Adviser, right), short sleeve.  My lone arrow of light knot was recently joined by a scouters training award someone handed me a while back. 

I have mixed feelings about uniform bling.  It can be a conversation starter with our youth, or it can just be a distraction, or, something in between.  At round table, there are folks with so many knots that if the wore the world crest it would be on the back.  As an adult, I find it interesting, some of them have good stories behind them, but not sure how the youth see it.  When I was a youth in the 80s & 90s, seeing a scouter with 4 or 5 knots was a lot.  One scouter I know has his meeting uniform with a ton of knots and special insignia, and another for camping. 

I might get me a Jac-Shirt one of these days.  I'm not sure what I'll sew onto it though.  A philmont bull for sure, and probably an OA back patch, maybe the one from my youth. 

I've seen some that do the sleeves just like their scout uniform, CSP, Unit #, Position etc.  I actually think that looks like of weird, but I get it at the same time.

Until I drop the cash on a Jac-Shirt, I'll live with my red lodge fleece.  haven't sewn any patches on it ... yet ... strongly considering it. 

Interesting that you took IOLS without the SM/ASM training first. I suppose every Council structures things differently but in my old Council we had the classroom stuff on a Saturday, formed patrols, met a couple of times over the next two weeks and then had a fri-sun Campout for the outdoor portion and a few lectures. That way we were trained in ALL positions including YPT.

We treat them as completely independent courses.  My district had an ILOS scheduled on a weekend that I could do it, and they cancelled it, but fortunately, a neighboring district was having one the same weekend and I was able to get into their course. 

I'm not in a rush to be an ASM or SM, but it doesn't hurt to be trained for the jobs.  I suppose that could spin a different discussion, should MCs be doing ASM stuff like I do?  I guess it really depends on the MC.

... he wears his rank on his uniform until he turns 18 ...

 

 

In another discussion, somewhere, I was having, or reading, this came up.  The latest venturing award recognition uses the left pocket where the rank would go.  For a venture scout doing both, it seems that they would have to choose.  I think there was a consensus in that discussion that the uniform policy hasn't caught up, but wearing the rank pin on the left pocket flap was probably the right way to go if the scout wanted to display both. 

This was actually one of those questions that I had no good reason to ask.  I still have a couple of years before my son turns 18, I was just curious.

My son's crew has no uniform requirement.  The adviser does wear one, but nobody else did.  Mine wanted the uniform, I think it had a lot to do with NYLT and his otherwise busy scout calendar, many of his fellow NYLT staffers are venturers and wear the national uniform, and, he'll be staffing that then heading to his troop summer camp with only about a 12 hour break in between. 

Pack trainer is a great idea!  But, as my wife has found, why is it so difficult to get cub scout leaders even basically trained?  The training is online, and doesn't take that much time.  I will say, it is not the best training, it may even be somewhere south of good, but it is a lot better than nothing.  Our district still does in person training, but interest is fading.  How a pack trainer can help?  Get the word out, personal invitation, follow up, meet for breakfast before hand. 

I've actually never been to a Pow Wow or University of Scouting, those are usually my wife's thing, but what great resources for cub scouters to go beyond what is offered online.  The two biggest reasons stated as to why someone didn't attend: 1, I didn't know & 2, Nobody to watch the children.  #1 is easy to solve, #2, not so easy these days.  But a pack trainer, getting the word out, organizing the pack leaders to attend together, putting together a car pool, would be a lot of help.

I kind of got off the subject.  Maybe pack trainer isn't for everyone.  The idea is, a non parent volunteer helping in any role is a big plus, and those that have done it for 5 years should know the program in be in the best position to be the most helpful. 

 

Definitely pinch pennies where you can. It sounds like your boy is all about the big-ticket scouting. It won't end at Jambo. So, find him a job this summer so that he can have some liquidity for the future.

I think it was less about him wanting to go with his troop friends, and more that he didn't want them to miss out on something he thought was so awesome, like, the National Jamboree.  Complete strangers is good too.  He enjoys that a lot as well.  When he arrived at NYLT last summer, he knew no one there, when he got home a week later, he had friends from around the council, I was surprised at the number of scouts he knew from other OA chapters when he went to the next fellowship.

I look at staffing several ways.  In some ways, it is selfish, I want the experience, and my job, combines a hobby that I have done a lot less of as I've grown to be a more active scouter.  But I also want to give back to the program.  Lets face it, it is expensive to be a staffer, but, I was able to get it into the budget.  It takes a long time commitment from work, and I often lose vacation time at the end of the year because I often use compensated time from late nights and weekend work when I take days off here and there.  My boys get a lot out of scouting, from others that put in hundreds of hours per year to make it work.  I know I can never personally give back at the collective level given to my sons' program, when my time and treasure can be put to good use giving back, I'm going to do it.

Yeah, big ticket is rough on the wallet.  He does fundraise, but not at the level that would cover everything.  I'm happy that OA high adventure is available - summit experience this summer $250 compared to $749, it saves a lot, as does the summit for us, again, we can drive there, which saves a lot (also have property and family in WV, not real close, but makes a good place to crash for a night).  Of course, he does plan to go to every high adventure base, and for at least one, he'll go while the rest of us go to the beach! 

I was told that the lodge doesn't want to risk problems this coming year, and simply wants the chapters to give them our ceremony team members. They will train them, practice them, and outfit them (I don't know with what). They will mold them into what they want.

 

 So, how does your summer camp organize its camp OA Call-Out ceremonies. Do you have the summer camp staff perform, lodge team perform, or maybe chapter teams perform? Just asking.

 

sst3rd

I don't think our lodge does OA Call-Out ceremonies at summer camp.  They are generally done at district spring camporees or district campfires, by chapter ceremonies teams.

Different chapters will have different levels of involvement, and it will come and go depending on the chapter.  I think it was good for your team to do this job for your lodge if they wanted to do it.  The lodge can't force them to.  If they want to do it again, they should work with the lodge to figure out a solution that works for everyone.  It seems that the lodge really wants a quality ceremony and they didn't get that last year.  Someone probably thought that the way to fix it was to have a one size fits all top down solution under strict supervision.  That could work, but it isn't the only way.  Perhaps your team can take them up on their offer, but as a team, not as individuals, and show the lodge committee running this what they can do and how they'll do it, maybe even take a few suggestions form the lodge on elements they would like to see included or done a certain way.  If all goes well, request the date when your chapter has the most district units at camp.  One thing to consider ... your team may be asked to train other teams, perform multiple dates, and / or run the committee next year! 

In 2013, I took my two sons and nephew on a day visit to the Jamboree.  I must say, it wasn't really a great experience.  Mainly, with limited time at the site, and thunder storms shutting things down multiple times while we were there, a lot of time was spent doing nothing.  My younger son, wearing his cub scout uniform, got a lot of attention, just about everyone with a patch of some sort gave him one.  Apparently they don't see many cub scout in uniform visitors there.

On to 2017 - my son signed himself up, I found out about it when I got the e-mail for parental permission.  Then, he told me I wasn't allowed to go.  He is looking forward to it and has set his goal for earning Eagle to be before the Jamboree, in fact, he wants his Eagle CoH before.  He seems to be on track for doing that, but, I guess we'll know when we get there.  He really worked his unit over to get his fellow scouts to join him.  He was hoping for 8, a full patrol, but only got 4.  His age is such that he only had one opportunity to go to a Jamboree as a youth, and this is it, my younger son will have the same problem. 

So, after talking it over with my son, we decided I could go too, I'm just not allowed to bother him too much!  I volunteered to be on staff and I'm really looking forward to it.  It was a decision I actually made during one of my woodbadge weekends.  I'm fortunate that I can drive to the Summit in a reasonable amount of time.  Hopefully some of the other staffers in my area can coordinate schedules and we can car pool.

This is making for an expensive 2016 though, as I'm paying for this summer's activities, and Jamboree all this year.  The scouts are fundraising too, we'll see what they can muster, but the payments are due when they are due! 

Adult staffers who have passed the requirements can earn beads for serving as course SM or course SA  Every adult staffer is undoubtedly someone's "son."

 

The insignia for a youth who has completed NYLT is the NLYT strip.

I asked the Scout Shop about that strip. They said that's a third party patch. The only recognized patch is the bsa nylt patch.

 

Anyone else get a different answer?

 

EDIT: Appears my scout shop was wrong (no surprise). Scoutstuff.org sells the strip.

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/emb-nylt-trained-strip.html#.VvZuzno8KrU

Add this to the "how did I not know about this!" column.  There is an NYLT trained strip.  I'll have to inform my son, and he will want 5 I'm sure! 

Maybe I'll read the entire thread at some point.  But first I'll add, that our lodge youth made a decision last year that when having patches made using lodge funds, those patches should be made in the USA.  That really isn't hard as the quantities we generally deal with we get the best prices locally anyway. 

Curious, what is the take on the "unofficial" knots on the venturing uniform?  I'm not talking about spoofs, but the third party knots that can be bought online with the dark green backgrounds, representing Eagle, Arrow of Light, etc. 

How many cub scouters would like to have one extra non parent volunteer?  You might not get one, but you can be one.

I knew when my son was a tiger, that I wasn't cut out for cub scout leadership, but my wife was in her element with them!

I look to my mother as the example, she was my bear den leader, and the assistant webelos leader, and when I bridged, she became the cubmaster for two years (I had no younger brothers).  Then she became a unit commissioner for several years, until she got really busy with girl scouts with my little sister. 

There is always room for an assistant cubmaster or assistant den leader or an active committee member who can organize an event or two.  Tiger parents can be very overwhelmed, being a tiger den leader can be really helpful in getting those new parents up to speed, and turn over the den leader to one of your capable, and trained, tiger parents when they bridge into wolves in the spring. 

I see the troubles with leadership turnover through my wife's role as a pack committee chair.  This is my advice to her, to encourage leaders to put in just one more year. 

Besides, if they were planning on jumping into an ASM role with a troop, putting that off a year can give their sons a chance to grow into a boy scout and be less dependent on mom or dad. 

I'm taking Scoutmaster / Assistant Leader Specific Training on Saturday.  I'm looking forward to it.  I think I know it all already, but I'm sure I'll learn something.  I've been trying to get this course in for almost three years or so.  Either they were on days that I wasn't available, or I'd sign up and it was canceled, or, some how, I just missed it on the schedule.  I managed to take ILOS a while back, enjoyed that as well.  I don't think I'll be a Scoutmaster anytime soon, and I really don't want to be an assistant at this time, I like my role as a member of the troop committee handling advancement.  I do act as an ASM often as the troop's ASMs can't put in the hours and weekends that would really make them effective. 

I suppose I should note - working on my woodbadge ticket in my advancement member of committee right now.

Oh, I also have a ladies extra small.  It actually looks like a good size for a webelos scout, but I don't know if that's the best idea.

My extra uniform go to scouts who can't afford one of their own, even off of Ebay.

 

If I can't find one on Ebay for the boy, I buy a new one for him.

Yeah.  That was the first thought, but then again, it is really hard to know with new scouts to the unit.  Her unit basically does, if you get a campership from the council, you can qualify for assistance from the unit budget too.  From what we've heard, there were some problems with the unit not having good standards for financial assistance, and people taking advantage of the programs.

I suppose adding something to the new parent orientation, "if you can't afford a uniform for your son, we have a few to offer"  wouldn't be the worst idea in the world.

I was setting up a ton of Explorer posts back in the mid 70's and I don't think they were doing uniforms back then.  At least none of the General Interest Posts used them.  I think the Law Enforcement and Fire Department Posts might have had some sort of auxiliary uniform reflective of the Post's interest but nothing official.

 

I don't know when the new Venturing uniform came about, I was a CA for 15 years and never needed one.

 

Hopefully others will have more details than what I have to offer.

I recall my post president and vice president wearing dark green uniforms in the 90's, definitely before venturing.  Maybe the uniforms were older, I've seen some good examples of before my time explorer uniforms. 

I have 4 cub scout unifoms that I've been thinking about donating to my younger son's pack.  He's moved to the boy scout uniform as a webelos and I have no younger children that will use them. 

1 small and 1 medium short sleeve

1 small and 1 medium long sleeve

I even have one good pair of cub scout convertible pants, the other didn't quite make it through two scouts.

I was thinking that I should sew the required elements on properly.

My wife is the pack committee chair, and while she thinks this is a good idea, she doesn't really know exactly how to handle it.  They could go to new scouts, first come first serve.  They could go to scouts in financial need.  They could hang in the scout closet for scouts that forget their uniform.  They could even be used as models for recuriting display, to show parents how the uniform is supposed to be put together.  Or any combonation of these.

One of my son's 4 uniforms used to be mine.  It is done up inthe late 80's style, with the white on red unit number, red loops, the old red and white tote n chip on the right pocket, and a green position of respnsibility patch. 

I made it for him because he is just a busy scout, but it has become his go to choice whenever it is clean.

I encourage him to save that one for non unit events, like, OA chapter meetings, NYLT staff development, etc. as I think he doesn't quite look like he is in uniform at troop events, but, he says he likes it because it is soft! 

He has both long and short sleeve modern uniforms, and a venturing uniform.

I think he said something recently about trying to find an 80's era explorer uniform. 

My son will be getting a campaign hat soon, he's staffing an NYLT and that was what they decided to wear as staffers.  An unexpected expense to say the least, but I was thinking of getting one for myself, I guess I'll just skip that for now. 

My son is the only scout I've ever seen that wears pathes ont he back of his merit badge sash.  He has 4 so far, His OA section patch, the OA NOAC Section patch, his NOAC standard participant patch, and a patch representing our district.  He's putting a lot of thought into what the next two should be.  He may want to contine the OA theme, but also, he is pretty proud of NYLT.  As the one that sews, I've only asked him to stick with his decision, because if he wants to replace one, I'll let him do the sewing!

@@Beavah - your style is going to take some getting used to. 

I'm going to let my son do venturing without me, completely, I'm already on his troop's committee and his chapter adviser.  His crew is focused on shooting sports, which is an activity he enjoys.  He is already looking at the ranger award and advancement thing, he's also interested in the Venturing Officers Association thing, because, he can't get enough leadership.  But yeah, my post as a youth was basically, more camping, and probably, some sort of trick to get us boys to help girls with their girl scout gold and silver projects.

J

^{This has been a very interesting thread.  Although, sometimes the finder details have gotten more attention than I think they deserve.  I think early in the thread the original question was answered a couple of ways and I'm sure the OP got way more than he was expecting on the ins and outs of boy leadership and patrol method.} 

Wow, the internet is small.  I am the chapter adviser for the chapter that cancelled. (is that word spelled with one L or two?  I can never remember and they both spell check)

@@Oldscout448 and I had a conversation later

I'm zealous for letting the youth run their organization, and the chief made the call to cancel.  Not a call I agreed with, but it was made.

Communication was difficult, as, I was camping with my unit that day, as was the chief.  The sad thing was that we were just on the other side of the property where the call out was happening. 

Lets go back.  My assessment is that the problem originated several weeks earlier at an ordeal planning meeting.  Chief & Ceremonies chief weren't there, and when the idea was floated by the other chapter, I may have over stepped and volunteered them.  Even though they got on board, I'm not sure the chapter leadership as a whole really were, but some times, even when trying to let them run it, as adults we can be overly suggestive. 

A few days before, there was an e-mail exchange, yeah yeah, email exchange always leads to something bad, but, the chief had suggested cancelling, my response was something like, you should work that out with the other chapter.  I think the chief's understanding was that he had cancelled, but it went no further.

On the day, I was camping with my son's unit as they needed a second adult.  I wondered down the trail and to my surprise, the chief was camping with his unit.  I had the conversation with him, is the call out cancelled?  His response, yes.  I was not really in a position to get the word out, so I called an associate adviser to help which ended up being an e-mail a couple of hours before saying it was cancelled. 

My son, is on the team, so I was able to get the word to him, the chief is on the team, so, obviously he was aware.  What they didn't know was that it was still happening.  I'd bet a paycheck that they'd have run right over if they were aware of the difficulties just a couple hundred yards down the trail.

So, why this scheduling failure?  Well, usually, at least for as long as I could remember, there would be a district camporee that weekend in march, and many units have that weekend blocked in their calendar for camping.  The district camporee was moved to April, one week before the ordeal, which, made having a surprise call out kind of difficult.

Some more history, the two chapters were once one, and we still have joint ordeals and have worked together on other things, so, it is not like we are strangers.

What I have taken away:

I should start referring commitments to the chief or his designee for that program and be careful not to make it seem like I am volunteering the chapter for something.  I should stop assuming that I am on the same page as my chief and follow up when things are not crystal clear.  And I should continue to work with the other advisers and make sure that decisions having impact to other chapters, area, lodge, or even other program areas within the chapter are communicated and received.

I'm happy to say that the chapter ceremonies chief changed his mind and accepted the role again for another year!  After that incident, I think some lessons were learned and the team seemed to shake off that loss, regroup, put on a great call out at the camporee and continued to work well together through the ceremonies at our spring ordeal a few weeks ago!

@@Oldscout448 - I'm not sure I can thank you enough for your dedication to the chapter's ceremonies team and beyond.

@@hendrickms24 - I look forward to working with you as my counterpart from the other side of the county (you know where I live now!)

Obligatory, I'm new to this forum.  I've been around other scout forums on the Internet, always looking for that next good idea. 

I was quite active as a scout in my youth, between the troop, the post, & the OA, there were times when I'd be camping three weekends per month!  I came up short earning Eagle, I blame all the fun I was having, then that 17 year old version of myself that had a few better things to do and poof, I was 18. 

I don't think my oldest scout will have that problem, he's 14 and Life, working on Eagle, with his goal to earn it in time to have his Eagle Court of Honor before he attends the 2017 National Jamboree.  He is also in the OA, just joined a Venture crew, is an NYLT graduate and staffing as a troop guide this summer.  This summer, NAYLE, NYLT Staff, summer camp 1, OA Summit Experience, & summer camp 2.  I had to tell him no when he wanted to sign up for yet another week of camp!

My younger scout recently earned his Webelos badge.  A busy summer for a cub, Day Camp by choice, resident family camp & resident webelos camp because his parents think it is good for him, and cub scouts in general, also, his mother is the pack committee chair trying to put some more outing in cub scouting and better prepare the pack's webelos for boy scouts. 

Me, I think the scouting program, its aims and methods are awesome, and a very worthwhile cause for my time and treasure.  I'm not in it for my children, but for all scouts.  My troop role is as a member of the troop's committee handling advancement.  I also camp with the troop when an extra adult is needed.  I am also the district's OA chapter adviser, a job I really like.  I knew I wouldn't be a good cub scout leader, and even some of the first year boy scouts I find it very difficult to work with, it's not them, its me, but after they've been doing it for a few years, get some experience and get elected to the OA, they are usually at a level I can handle.

Oh, my youngest scout is a girl, she is a brownie, or she just bridged to a junior, but for camp this summer, she is still considered a brownie, we double and triple checked, so, well, next fall, she will definitely be a junior.

When it comes to forums and internet conversation, I come and go.  For some reason I'm craving information right now, just can't get enough, especially about venturing, I wasn't paying attention much and it seems like the whole program has gone and reinvented itself, or is it just explorers without the law enforcement posts?