ianwilkins

9 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Ian,

What troop are  you with, and did they go to Kingsdown or Youlbury in 1995? I ask because I know every necker design is registered to one group only, and I have your necker in my collection!

Farnham Explorer Scouts, and no, we didn't even exist in 1995. Never been to Youlbury or Kingsdown (sadly while still a campsite that has special rates for youth groups, Kingsdown got sold off a while back, so isn't a scout campsite anymore - HQ needed more money, sound familiar?). We created that necker design when we were formed in 2002.

And sorry to correct you but neckers are definitely not unique to one group in the UK, I think our rules suggest they are unique within a district (which could be anything between 3-4 groups to 30-40 groups), so that when you do district things you can tell groups apart. And even then it can fall apart, two groups in our district have two subtly different shades of yellow necker, not ideal.

Looking back at this thread it seems I mentioned my impending trip to Brownsea, so it seems right to feedback...

We actually did it. It's probably only a 2 hour drive from us, but I'd never, in 42 years of scouting (on and off, man and boy), been to Brownsea.

Executive Summary: It was glorious. Okay the weather helped but...And had just enough of the heritage side of things, and "the feels" to be a great nights camping.

We only went for one night, right at the start of our week long summer camp. There were 42 Explorer Scouts, aged 14-18, 18 girls, 22 boys, and 5 leaders. We had the hard work of getting all the kit together getting down to our main site, unloading, packing for the overnight, and dropped off to catch the ferry across the harbour mouth, then into the ferry to Brownsea itself. Once the ferry unhooked from the dock, I felt a weight lift off, that was it now, there's no ferry back until the morning, no shop, we'd just have to deal with anything that came up as and when, nothing more I could do except go with it. That was a good feeling to have.

The ferry was all our own on the way over, as it was the last ferry, no day trippers outbound or they'd be stuck. We walked across the island to our site, not "the" site, that was next door I think. We set up our hammocks and tents, cooked dinner, no open fires, so it was trangias, hike stoves. In fact, they lent us some tables, as they didn't even want gas stoves on the floor due to the fire risk (it was a very dry summer). This was good, as I think the begging peacocks would have just helped themselves straight out the pot if they could have got away with it.

One of the Explorers had brought a bluetooth speaker, I made them switch it off, it just didn't feel right.

We were camped next to a large group of Scouts from Switzerland and Lichtenstein. 

The evening was spent walking down to an old quay at the other end of the island (photo two attached), Pottery pier, where the Explorers amused themselves practicing their skimming techniques, making mosaics like others had done, and having a paddle in the sea, while the sun set. Managed to sit quietly in the woods for long enough to see the native Red Squirrel, now rare in the UK thanks to the invasive Grey.

In the morning, we had breakfast, fighting off the peacocks again. We wandered up to the commemorative stone marker, had the obligatory group photo, we then invested some of our new Explorers, and had a couple of leaders from the Lichtenstein group join us for the ceremony, as they were passing. A special moment I hope. One of our Explorers sported a blue and red necker for the rest of the week, and a leader in Lichtenstein now has one of ours. We then sat down while I read a couple of passages from Scouting for Boys, about a typical day schedule on camp, and BP on scout laws. Had a bit of free time, so some went searching for red squirrels, some went to the providore, where there's badges to buy, and some cases and displays of historical interest, as well as the ceiling of neckers (photo one attached), yes, one of ours was left behind to be put up at a future date.

Time to leave and we walked back across the island, helped another group off the ferry who had brought approximately three bazillion tonnes of kit, so much kit and so long it took to unload that the ferry wanted to leave without us...we protested and jumped on.

And that was that really. It definitely felt good to go, always good to meet scouts from around the world, and "walk in the footsteps" of BP.

19 hours ago, ParkMan said:

I imagine it will linger for a number of years - perhaps decades. 

UK story...last year I was on a plane with 56 other scouts all in matching t-shirts and neckers, on our way to summer camp. We clearly and obviously and unmistakably had girls amongst our number. There was an angry man on the plane. Got on red faced and cheesed off. He sits behind three of ours. I'm not sure what happened but I was sat across the aisle and a seat or two away in the same row, and I not infrequently heard him spluttering "****** boy scouts [inaudible muttering]". He was quite old. In the UK we dropped Boy from Boy Scouts in 1967. Nineteen sixty seven. Actually 50 years previous. So yes, definitely decades.

Holy Thread Resurrection Batman!

As a child my first summer camp was in north Wales, near lake Bala apparently, I was 6, tagged along with my parents. A farmer's field.

As a child and then a scout, then a Venture, then a Venture leader farmer's fields in

Brecon Beacons, south Wales
Gower, south Wales
North Devon
Dart Valley, South Devon - where we could see a preservation steam in action across the valley

As an Explorer Scout leader

Collard Bridge, Barnstaple, North Devon
Broadstone Warren - Sussex
Corf Campsite - Isle of Wight
Tansley Wood, Matlock, Peak District
A dust bath "nature reserve" and a school gym floor, Canary Islands
Farmer's field in Corfe Castle, Dorset

Also sent Explorers with other leaders to

San Jacinto, Aveiro, Portugal
Kandersteg, Switzerland
Barcelona, Spain

And also, if you want to look at old scout books, The Dump is your friend. pdfs of loads of scout books.

Pertaining to girls in scouts, there's a chapter at the end of this one...

http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/21years.pdf

I only had a brief scan but it looked pretty relevant.

Ian

5. Identify trees and parts that are "useful" for bushcraft/backwoods activities. e.g. birch bark, pine for resin or needles, for fire lighting. 

13 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

These folks do not understand

...scouting.

On 10/31/2018 at 5:32 PM, FireStone said:

more people wearing just the neckerchief in the UK style (friendship knot)

Small point of order, I'm not sure where or why the friendship knot started or gained traction, whether it was in the UK or what, but there are still plenty that are more than happy with woggles (slides you say? How odd.  ) over this side of the pond*. Though it does seem to have either come down from above, not sure when it started, but a desire to be seen as more "action" and less "stuffy". If memory serves I think it started getting traction in the UK around the World Jamboree in 2007. It may seem like it comes from the higher-ups as they're more likely to go to these international junkets. A UK forum (might even have been usenet) some members started disparaging HQ initiatives that they disagreed with as product from the "woggeless wonders". Though to argue both sides, the friendship knot is becoming more and more common.

 Then again, may a lot of it's part of the gradual casualisation of clothing generally in the UK. My first job I was required to wear a proper suit jacket and tie. These days many don't even wear proper shirts.

* Though, I confess, I'm more of a friendship knot man these days, but with a couple of woggles slid onto the "arms" of the necker before tying the knot, otherwise no one would ever see my Scouts de Argentina woggle gifted to me from one of their leaders, and that would never do! I'm generally only switching to a "proper" smart woggle arrangement for things like Remembrance Sunday (Veterans Day) parade.

8 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Please, someone in the Hudson valley, send @ianwilkins an image of scouts playing a round of nine pins in the woods with the SM's sleeping on aging camp chairs in the background!

sounds like what we in the UK call skittles, 9 pins in a diamond, small balls, though looking a wikipedia, only a superficial similarity. Seems there's a nice wide variety of "let's chuck a ball at bits of wood".  

15 hours ago, MattR said:

Is there a way to submit photos? I'd enjoy seeing photos of scouts from around the world.

Hi Matt,

If you want to submit photos, you can either email them to us info@jambowlree.org and I'll put them on facebook, or what a lot of people do is just post them straight onto our facebook page. 

If you just want to look at some of the photos, said facebook page 

https://www.facebook.com/Jambowlree/

is the place to go. If you are logged in you'll see everyones photos, but even if not there will be some there.

What I've learnt is bowling alleys look more or less the same all over the world. Garish carpets and dazzle camouflage backwalls especially.

Cheers,

Ian

On 11/16/2018 at 7:48 PM, Treflienne said:

Nevertheless,  the history of the changes to the badge offerings is quite interesting.

Indeed. I have recollections of a UK reprint of a badge book from the 1920s-1930s that had a Mining proficiency badge in it. One of the requirements was to have spent "at least six months" working down a pit. Those were the days eh?

What country are you based in? There may be BSA overseas organisations in that country, or other English speaking overseas scout organisations, or, indeed, local National scout organisations. Any of which could be worth reaching out to for help.

7 hours ago, Treflienne said:

 

And we actually have a really simple situation with scouting in this country.  Compare it with France.  According to wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_and_Guiding_in_France )

 

Yes, I met some scouts from France a couple of years back, I don't know what branch they were in officially, they self described themselves as "we're like the hippy scouts of France", I think they were non-denominational. Lovely bunch. I guess in France if there isn't a branch that fits what you think scouting should be, you start a new organisation, and all the others just give a gallic shrug.

Suing other organisations seems like a much more sensible use of funds than using it to improve your own offering [eye roll]. But them I'm British, so I probably just don't understand, I'd probably stop at a quite loud "tut, or a strongly worded letter that could be summarized as "I say, that's a bit much isn't it?"

17 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

I'm not sure if he was serious or not, but one of our ASMs mentioned Camp Alpine in Switzerland.  ☺️

 

Kandersteg. If you want to meet lots of scouts from lots of different countries, and have high adventure, this is the place. I haven't been myself, but everyone I know that has been has raved about it. One of my ex-explorer scouts was staff there, a "pinkie", he loved it. Of course, you'll all need passports. And you'll probably have to fly via New York or something. A quick google suggests 12-16 hours on planes and in airports, then it's another 2-3 hours from Zurich to the campsite.

I think sharing a similar sense of humour is important in a relationship. In which case, luckily, it seems qwazse and WinsconsinMomma are not in a relationship, as far as we can tell.

We have some, well, we call them teepees, because it's easier, because everyone thinks they are teepees, and it would be tedious to explain it to every new person that sees them. We have some lavvus, in modern fabric, they are kind of like a bell tent with no walls, and one central pole. We can sleep up to about 8 in them. In theory you can have a wood-burning stove in them, but we're not usually brave enough to let the explorers do that.

I have seen a few groups over here with german black jurte tents,  I try not to covet them as I go say hello, look in, and see a kitchen set up on one side, stores next to it, tables and benches for about 25 people on the other, and in winter a fire bowl in the middle. They always look cosy, but I can see it would be a beast to transport, dry, and store.

Okay, so mostly we tend to do things differently in the UK, so this wasn't cubs but Explorers, aged 14-17. Our last summer camp was in a farmer's field, for a few nights we had them cooking for themselves, with food we supplied, and a few nights because of timings of activities we had a small group of them cooking for everyone else (i.e. making a meal for 50 people). The couple doing all the food shopping did 90% of it online, not only that, they got it delivered direct to site in the supermarket's lorry, so it was all kept chilled and frozen, and was a lot easier! Delivery location was something like "400 yards past New Farm in a field on the left, Somesuch Lane, Corfe Castle, Dorset. Most of the delivery drivers were happy to drive in and back right up to the stores tent. Winner!

So yes, for central catering, what an absolute boon online supermarket shopping is.

13 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Is it so really so hard to believe girls are different from boys?

I believe you. But it doesn't matter really. I just treat all my Explorer Scouts as individuals, and I seem to get by with that, so the more mature get treated in a more mature way, and those that haven't matured yet don't. I treat the exuberant ones different to the quiet ones, etc etc. Much as I assume most of you do with your boys at the moment.

41 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

[litany of problems snipped]From my perspective, the mom doesn't understand Scouting, and only wants her son to be an Eagle.

That sounds very, hmm, struggling with a scout-like phrase! That doesn't sound ideal. Good luck with that. We get the same sometimes, the leader you invite along to camp that turns out not to get it, mothering teens that should be being left to get on with it themselves, not teaching, but taking over. It can definitely be...frustrating.

41 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

Nah, just about having a 6 year old at a scout encampment.

That's the age I went on my first week long scout summer camp, with my parents, dad the scout leader, mum running the stores, and looking after me. My memories of it are patchy at best. I know I knocked around with another couple of leader's kids, and the farmer's field we were in had a damp bit that may have been a pond in winter, and a hollow tree in it. I would guess the scouts were all in patrols, as they usually were, and did all their cooking and stuff themselves, as well as coming together for activities and games and so on. I guess it's possible, probably even, that I wandered over to the patrols, they let me poke the fire, and kept an eye on me. It might not have been the ideal, but it was what it was, it was that or not enough adults to run summer camp.

Oh, and lest we forget, Baden Powell took his 9 year old nephew to Brownsea for his experimental camp, though if memory serves, he was designated as BP's "orderly". So taking kids on camp is nothing new.

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

UPDATE: Found out the young lady will NOT be attending the camp out last night. When the CM found out, she told the Tiger DL she didn't need to go. Tiger DL stated she will still be going, "if it's Scouting I'm going." And if she goes her Tiger goes. 😠

Family Scouting, you gotta love it.

You're complaining about having an enthusiastic leader?

1 hour ago, malraux said:

Be prepared seems to cover these moderately well.

Do we deny eagle to a scout that goes hiking/camping in bad weather and ends up needing a rescue? 

Aye, in both cases some sort of overcoat would have been advisable.

10 hours ago, Setonfan said:

Wonder how long it will take our BSA culture to transition from “wow, girl cub scouts”, to “wow, cub scouts”?  

Internally, 4-5 years maybe. Externally, decades.

15 hours ago, Treflienne said:

Also:  don't assume that the addition of girls is going to water-down the interest in knives and other traditional scout stuff.   You may find instead that cub scouts and scouts BSA attracts the kind of girls that want to do the things that BSA does.

Bingo!

From what I've experienced in the UK, that's exactly how it works. You don't join the football team to play basketball. We get the girls that like the running around and poking fires and camping. Okay, we get a few girls that are being sent by parents because they want their kids to be more outdoorsy, but plenty of boys are sent for the same reasons.