Eagle94-A1

What if they do not want to be in another unit? They just want registration current so that they can restart later?

So what happens to those folks whose registration expires in 3-6 months after the troop folds, and they do not want to transfer? One of my adults doesn't want to transfer to any unit or district/council POR, because he wants to restart the unit in a few months when he has more free time.

During COVID, we did our own summer camp for 5 days. Forgot how much it was, but it was under $100/person. Only out of pocket expense for the Scouts was the stop at the Hardees for shakes during the bike ride. We came up with different activities for the Scouts to do: cycling, canoeing, wilderness survival, emergency first aid drill, and the schedule was flexible, except for Thursday Night Dinner. We had troop committee visit to do BORs. The Scouts had a blast, and many said it was the best summer camp ever. But they didn't want to do it again because, "we didn't earn any merit badges." My kids were included in that. And yes, BSA shot itself in the foot on this matter. They are the ones that pushed advancement and getting Eagle.

Trust me I know. I am lamenting the fact that units can care less about growing the Scout instead of growing the number of Eagles. Sadly the SM was part of the problem. When he took over the troop, many Scouts transferred out to ours. So it was known what was going on, but nothing to be done about it outside the COR. Both family and SM gamed the system. Family left our troop because we insured Scouts actually did what they were supposed to. They specifically went to that troop because they were "high speed low drag." SM picked summer and winter camps known for giving away MBs. When discussing summer camp last year, the family referred to to summer camp as a place to "purchase MBs." It is extremely sad for the Scout. He has not really grown much over the years. He acts like a Tenderfoot still. And family is not helping as they are pushing and pushing to get Eagle. But I am mad that there is nothing anyone can do about the situation, i.e. just signing stuff off, except the COR replacing Scouters. And trust me the SM knew better; I trained him. And it is frustrating because if anyone needed Scouting, the Life Scout did.

If I can find it, I will post a pic of my Beavis and Butthead OA flap from 1994 NOAC.

Challenge with that is each council is supposedly their own, independent, legal entity. All national can do is withhold charters if memory serves.

Correct, not a retest. But the GTA does still say " (The BOR's) purpose is to determine the quality of the Scout’s experience and decide whether the requirements for the rank have been fulfilled. (emphasis added). That can be done by asking questions. With the Second Class Scout, I have no issues, they actually know their stuff, and the delay has been swimming. Long story short, he was focused on having fun, and wasn't too worried about meetings all of the First Class requirements because he could not pass the swim test. Not that he has passed it, and done the water rescue, he got on it. But my Life Scout is 100% clueless. He is so dependent on adults and others doing stuff for him, that he does nothing. No participation in discussions, camp set up and take down, gametime activities, etc. His old troop went to MBUs that have a reputation for giving MBs away. And I should know; I got asked 1 time to teach a MB, listed what needed to be done prior to the class, and gave everyone partials because no one did the work prior to class. I was never asked to teach there again. Only MBs I can say he honestly earned were the shooting sports ones. he is an avid hunter and can shoot.

So if current Advancement guidelines say the BOR "In most cases it should, instead, be a celebration of accomplishment. Remember, it is more about the journey." p55 GTA 8.0.1.1 Not a Retest or “Examination”, Then why have them? Apparently that is the opinion of one troop that is still around, and another troop that has folded. Found that out tonite when I was talking to my Scouts. One of them has never had a BOR, and he is Second Class. The other remembers a Tenderfoot BOR when he was in the troop originally, but did not have one for Second Class through Life. Which explains how the Life Scout skipped through the cracks. Very frustrated.

My troop folds at the end of the month. But we survived over 15 years without a Cub Scout pack because we focused on fun and adventure. Almost all of out scouts since the pack folded were either already members, or transferred from other troops. Those troops are now dead. The remaining ones got smart and started being more youth led and adventure driven, while focusing less on advancement. Basically they became more like us. Fun and adventure retains Scouts. And prior to national denigrating 18-20 yos, we retained young ASMs. This is coming from folks with education backgrounds without any experience in Scouting. This is folks focusing on one thing that is easily trackable, advancement. Instead of asking Scouts what they want, they use their theories to create program. The entire reason why Scouting took off was because BP created a program on the desires of the youth.

Don't know about today, but back in the day DEs were told, at least in my council, to select folks who agreed with everything council wanted. I was told point blank to get rid of a bunch of people, basically the ones keeping the district together, because they were constantly questioning the council. One reason I was not popular at the office, I knew their value, and would not do it. I did tell one volunteer they needed to pick 1 role, besides CM, as they had 4 district roles, and it was overwhelming her, and she refused to recognize it. Not necessarily. I know volunteers hate change, but I bet you its the pros running councils that do not want to lose their power. Fewer councils= fewer SEs etc. And My understanding is that everyone who was eligible for retirement has taken it. So they are fighting for their jobs. Most definitely. Council consolidation in their bankruptcy plan was supposed to take 5 years if memory serves.

Why cant they do the SMC prior to the BOR? In many units I have been in, that has been the case.

Regarding my.scouting, 1. BSA's IT system sucks. I have had so many issues with it over the years, I and many others do not trust it. 2. Some areas of the country have poor to no internet connectivity (believe it or not there are indeed areas with no internet providers), that email is not viewed as a primary communication source. Heck we have folks begging for classroom YPT/SY training becuase of poor internet.

Stupid question, wouldn't the current CORs have to vote to allow this? And if they vote to not allow this, will they be forced to by National with the threat of withholding the charter? And is this in preparation of all the forced mergers headed our way as some council have contested the mergers already?

If you look at older BSA literature, @DuctTape is 100% correct. Troop meetings were designed to plan and prepare for trips, and well as competition amongst patrols. Patrol Meetings were where the learning was supposed to take place, with older Scouts working with younger Scouts. Prior to 1989, advancement was not the focus of Scouting, having fun and experiential learning was. In 1989, the introduction of aged based programs, and especially OPERATION FIRST CLASS (sic), changed the focus to advancement. With aged based patrols, new Scouts were lumped into one patrol with a single older Scout as a Guide to teach and supervise everyone. Challenge with that was burnout because one Scout had to supervise everyone in the patrol, instead of having multiple Scouts mentoring the new guys. That led to adults taking over and turning it into Webelos 3. And the LDS model of segregating their 11 year olds into a separate patrol and having an assigned ASM to work with them, as in Cub Scouts, was the model for this. LDS 11 year old patrols had a very adult led and regimented program which led to constant repetition of the program. But because the 11 yo Scouts moved to a traditional patrol at 12, they never saw the repetition. And the adults, not the Scouts, created a program designed to get them to First Class in a year. Scouts had no input. But OPERATION FIRST CLASS was the main cause for the change of focus from fun and adventure, to advancement. BSA's research showed that Scouts who got First Class in 12-18 months stayed longer in Scouts. As a result National pushed advancement. But the research data had some major flaws IMHO. As an older Scout I commented that the data did not take into account how active a troop is. A "hiking and camping troop" with fun monthly outdoor activities will retain Scouts, and provide more opportunities for advancement. And I learned later as an adult is that LDS troops heavily influenced the data. First and foremost, every LDS male was registered, whether active or not. And LDS units had a fixed 11 year old program designed to get them to First Class before joining the rest of the troop. Even doing only 4 camp outs and no summer camp at 11, they got First Class stayed registered, even if they didn't show up again. But maybe I am an old fogey stuck in the past. My troop has not focused on advancement, but fun and adventure. Our Scouts stuck around until they aged out, or went off to college. And two Eagles did activities with us in college and before aging out. We are now in single digits, and folding at the end of the year. We have not had a feeder pack in over 15 years, relying on word of mouth and Scouts dissatisfied with their original troops to keep our numbers up. But several troops we would get Scouts from have folded, and the remaining ones took notes from us, and are doing more activities and being more youth led to prevent folks from leaving. The last time we had Webelos visit, some parents didn't like the amount of camping we did, or our emphasis on fun and adventure; advancement is the Scout's responsibility. There is a quote attributed to Baden-Powell, " Advancement is like a suntan, it just happens in the outdoors."

National could remove the double standard, i.e. 2 females can take males youth out, but 2 males cannot take female youth out.