Hedgehog

The graph also suggests, in the right most column, that wilderness back country is limited to 14 and older. Backpacking is also only mentioned in the context of high adventure, 14+. So I guess backpacking is no longer allowed in boy scouts?

Or maybe this whole page should just be ignored.

Bizzare.  I've never paid much attention to that graph -- sort of figured that it was a guide to the types of activities that make sense for various age groups.  I'm voting for ignoring it.

If Backpacking is limited to 14+, then my troop is in trouble. Troop is doing a 50 miler on the AT instead of Philmont due to leadership issues. We couldn't get enough leaders to go to Philmont this year.

 

But we now have an ASM heading up the AT trek only because his 12 year old can do the AT, but not Philmont. 12 year old is looking forward to redoing that section of the AT again. It's been 3 years since he did it.

 

 

EDITED: Just noticed that  Wilderness and Backcountry is limited to 14+.  Where are we suppose to go camping, only at Scout camps?  Why do I think the folks who wrote these guidelines were either A) Never in Scouts or B) In Scouts in the 1970s when they took the OUTING out of ScOUTING.

Well, my son earned his 50 miler award for backpacing 54 miles in the backcountry when he had just turned 13 last summer and earned his backpacking merit badge in the fall.  Nobody told me that he couldn't do that.     

Nonetheless, I'm too busy putting the OUTING back in ScOUTING for my unit -- going camping with hiking, fishing, mountain biking in April, camping with horseback riding in May, spending a day sailing and boating in June, doing a 20 mile AT trek into summer camp in July, spending a week at summer camp, doing a 5 day - 30 mile backpacking trek later in the summer, camping and whitewater rafting and beach camping -- and the boys haven't planned November and December's actiivites yet.  Now I'm working on doing a Wilderness Survival training and campout for the older guys (9th grade and up) in our Troop and maybe for another local Troop.

So, I'm reviewing stuff, and on this site http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss03.aspxit says that 12 years olds can do Outpost Camping.

 

1) Why separate Boy Scouts into 11 and 12 year olds?

 

The 12 Year Olds can attend Jamborees, thus there needs to be a distinction.

 

1a) What about the 10 year old Boy Scouts?

 

Too complicated to show on the chart.

 

2) What the heck is "Outpost Camping"

 

Remember Schiff's anwer makes sense.  I've also heard Outpost Camping to be wilderness survival type activities.  I have no idea why there is an age limitation.

 

On this site, http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416_Insert_Web.pdf, it states that Bears can  cook in the outdoors, but they can't build a fire or used fueled devices like stoves. So..

 

3) How they heck are they suppose to cook?

 

The requirement is "help" cook.  The adult should start the fire and light the stove.

 

And if survival training is part of CASTAWAY...

 

4) How the Heck are Webelos  suppose to earn CASTAWAY if they cannot build fires, nor use them for signalling purposes?

 

Again, the requirement is to build a fire with an adult.

 

Other questions

 

5) If Wolves and Bears can use a map and compass, then  why does it say they  can't they go orienteering lower on the chart?

 

Orienteering typically is done with pairs of scouts.  Wolves and Bears need to have an adult with them.

 

6) they can do pioneering bridges and towers, but not other pioneering projects?

 

That one doesn't make sense.  Maybe they can climb on them but not build them.

 

Regarding Boy Scouts:

 

7) All Boy Scouts can do Search and Rescue Practice, but only older Scouts, Sea Scouts, and Venturers can do actual missions?

 

Probably not a requirement, but a guideline -- you don't want a 12 year old on a search and rescue.  

 

One question, and I like that it is allowed

 

8) When did Webelos get to use bow saws?

 

I always thoght it was just knives.

My suggestion is to go by G2SS and ignore the charts and suggestions.  G2SS controls.

If your Scout Unit is sponsored by a church and you only sell popcorn to church members, it's probably tax exempt.  Selling to the general public?  Technically sales tax needs to be collected.

OK, this is not personal legal advice, but merely my opinion as a tax lawyer for your amusement and entertainment purposes only... 

1.  If the CO is a tax-exempt entity, a 501©(3) for Federal and similar exemption for state purposes, then the entity does not pay income tax on its charitable, educational, etc. operations.  However, if a tax-exempt entity operates a business that competes with other businesses, the income from that business is considered to be unrelated business income and is taxable (think gift shop or coffee shop at hospital).  For state sales tax purposes, a tax-exempt entity can engage in fundraising activities without charging sales tax.  However, if a tax-exempt entity operates a business (think the Council Scout Shop), they have to charge sales tax on all taxable transactions.  A tax-exempt entity does not have to pay sales or use tax on its purchases that are directly used for the exempt purpose (i.e., it can't buy lumber used to build the Scoutmaster a new deck).

2.  If the CO is a taxable entity, it pays tax on its income (which would include donations and popcorn sales) but likely would get a deduction for what it spends on the scouting program presumably because it generates goodwill toward its business (like sponsoring a Little League team).  So as long as the monies raised are spent, there probably isn't a tax issues.  The taxable entity cannot purchase anything as being exempt from sales tax.  The better idea is to set up a tax-exempt foundation to be the CO and to make donations to that foundation.

The profits of the coffee shop would be tax exempt?

 

I'll give you my best lawyer answer... it depends.     Actually, it does depend on the frequency of the activity, whether there is a set amount per cup, whether you can get a cup without donation, whether it has a dedicated space and is open to the public and how good the coffee tastes (OK, maybe not the last one).

 

So now we have the boys "raising money" for their trips under the tax exempt status of a CO.  Is this a ministry when the CO only views the unit as someone who uses the facilities rent free or doesn't allow the unit access to the tax-exempt ID?

 

Yes.  The Unit is part of the CO and therefore its activities fall under the CO's tax exemption.  The Unit shoud be using the CO's EIN (which is it's federal identification number) for any separate banking accounts.  

 

What if a local hardware store is the CO, do the boys need to be charging sales tax and paying income tax just like the hardware store does?

 

See #2 above.

 

With some of these units having thousands of dollars spirited away, how long does one think it will take to hit the IRS and state tax departments' radar?

 

I suspect that the number of for-profit owned units that have this issue would be relatively small.

if the BSA was a not for profit, you might even argue it could fall under the same concept of a church... since it has a religious component, and also exists (or could exist) as a moral, educational, and religious institution... even mental health... like a supporting charity perhaps

 

The BSA is tax-exempt.  Council can purchase items without paying sales and use tax for Council events.

 

 

This might also apply to the parental groupings that CO units and do not bother to process any non-profit status with the government.  Are they then personally responsible for the taxation issues.

 

It would, unless the entity was set up as a tax-exempt entity.

 

And one other thing @@Krampus, just because one does not pay SALES tax on items purchased over the internet does not mean anyone who normally would have paid sales tax isn't due to pay state USE tax instead.

 

Just as a matter of ethical considerations one must realize that in most taxing jurisdictions, when a sale/purchase is made the company is responsible for the collection of sales tax on that transaction.  If the transaction occurs over the internet where taxing jurisdiction is questionable and/or California can't force a New York company to collect it's taxes, the obligation to pay the said taxes for that transaction falls on the buyer.  In my state there is a line on the income tax form that leaves a place to declare taxes due on purchased items that are USED in the state that were not taxed elsewhere.  The rate of tax is the same as the state's sales tax and if for example, Delaware has not sales tax, but if someone from Wisconsin makes a purchase from that Delaware company they still owe Wisconsin use tax.

 

See Quill v. North Dakota which held that a mail order company without a physical presence in a state cannot be required to collect use tax (sales tax isn't due because the sale took  place outside of the state).  Although there are some exceptions to that (e.g. New York and other state's so-called "Amazon Laws" which require use tax collection by vendors that have "associates" or agents in the state). 

 

My wife is a senior tax accountant responsible for audits in a multi-billion dollar international company and when it comes to our personal income taxes, that line on the income tax return form is always filled.

 

I'm probably one of 100 people in my state that report use tax -- with me being a tax attorney and my wife working for the state brings new meaning to the word "obedient."

 

Okay, if a company donates to the scouts under the CO's EIN and it's a non-profit.  Not a problem Company gets a tax deduction.

If a company donates to the scouts under the CO's EIN and it is a for profit, then the company can't get a deduction and the scouts count that as 100% income taxable profit.

 

Agree.

 

Petty cash amounts here, I know, but what is the lesson we pass on with our boys?  A bit of fuzzy logic going on here.  At what dollar value does it become questionably unethical.  Maybe $1,000? $100? $10? $1? or maybe just a penny.  It kinda reflects on the whole issue of a scout's honesty.

 

The answer is clear -- no grey area or fuzzy logic.  If you are dumb enough to directly charter a Boy Scout Unit through a group of individuals or a for profit company, you have to pay income tax on your net income and sales tax on your purchases.  If someone falls into that catagory, find a lawyer to set up a tax-exempt entity to hold the charter.

 

BSA does not make any of this clear in any of it's literature that I have seen.  I think they are riding on ethical thin ice and as long as no one gets caught, it's okay.  Not a lesson I want my boys to learn.

 

I haven't researched what is or is not made clear in literature, but it is clear that the unit belongs to the CO and its tax status is the same as the CO's tax status.

Stosh,

 

How many for-profit COs do you know of?  I don't know of any at all, I am sure there are none in my district and I'm reasonably sure there are none in my council.

 

To the extent a for-profit CO is sponsoring a unit I would assume some knowledge and awareness on their part about what tax laws apply to them.  For non profits the tax laws generally say that income they generate is not taxable, you can screw this up if you work at it, like the case with the gymnastics' parents, but you do have to work at it.  The laws are actually written and designed so as to make the non-profit income non-taxable.

 

Agreed.

 

Much the same can be said about sales tax.  In my state non profits generally do not have to charge sales tax for things they sell, nor do they have to pay sales tax for things they buy.  ETA I will need to research this some more, I know my Church does not need to charge sales tax, but the Council, clearly a non-profit, charges sales tax at the Scout Shop, I'll have to look into what the difference is.

 

See above answer on difference between fundraising and operating a shop that competes with taxable businesses.

 

A scouting unit is a subset of the CO, the CO enters into a legally binding agreement that makes that so.  A CO that tells a unit not to use their EIN for purchases is probably in violation of the chartering agreement, this means that BSA could revoke the charter based on those grounds.  Whether to do so or not is up to BSA, but the legal relationship between the CO and the unit remains that the unit is a subset of the CO irrespective of how the CO may view it.

 

Agreed.

I am not a tax lawyer, so take this with a grain of salt, but it seems to me that the cost of a unit to a for-profit CO are probably tax deductible either as a charitable donation or general business deduction.  SO pretty much everything you mention washes itself out as far as tax having to be paid by the CO.

 

Most likely, but if the amount raised (i.e. the income) exceeds the amount spent (the expense) then the difference is taxable.

 

You first mention someone donating to the scouts and the scouts counting it as income taxable profit.  The scouts aren't an entity so they don't file a return, there is no such thing as income to the scouts.  Likely, the money donated to the scouts would be income to the CO but immediately offset as deductible because it passed through to the scouts --- so except for some bookkeeping, the tax liability of the CO doesn't change.  Sales tax is very state specific, but in my state businesses generally do not have to pay sales tax, and if they do it is deductible as an expense.  The unit's purchases are subject to the same rules so there is likely to be no tax liability for that either.

 

As a legal matter, there is no difference between the business and the unit.  The business only gets a deduction if the funds are used to purchase something.

If a for profit CO gives money to "their scouts" as a charitable donation, the problem lies in that scout unit is not a charitable entity.  They are owned by a for-profit CO.

 

But the purchase most likely is a business expense (like a little league sponsorship), not a charitable donation.

 

If a not-for-profit gives money to "their scouts" it is a charitable donation, but not if it is given to an individual.  Churches pay their clergy and staff, Red Cross does as well,... Well come to think of it they all do and they issue a W-2 at the end of the year so that person can file their income tax.

 

Giving money to anyone is income to the person receiving it.  A tax-exempt organization spending money in fulfillment of its purpose is just that.

 

 

The troop I was involved with used to run TLT twice a year as an invited campout shortly after elections.  We would go through the normal BSA TLT instruction supplemented with some confidence/team-building games outside and I added some video clips from various movies for discussion.  I think I still have the PowerPoint with the video clips on DropBox -- PM or email me for a link.

I appreciate the offer, but I'm not planning to use Powerpoint at all. The games sound interesting, but Im thinking of using real challenges to teach leadership and teamwork  

A PL can facilitate his patrol in deciding on the menu,

 

Or the Grubmaster can take the lead and work with the boys directly and more efficiently. 

 

remind the Grubmaster to talk to the QM to make sure he has the right gear (e.g. Dutch Ovens for the pasta),

 

Which would be a clear indication that the PL is letting the Grubmaster know he isn't capable of doing his job and has to be reminded over and over again what he needs to do to MANAGE his job.  That will surely support and encourage any boy to endeavor to ever take on that job.

 

work with the Grubmaster to assign cooking duties

 

Is there such a thing as helicopter PL?

 

and work with the TG to make sure that boys who need to demonstrate cooking skills get the opportunity.

 

super helicopter PL doing the job of everyone on the team.   Sounds like a severe trust issue going on with the PL running around reminding everyone how little he trusts their ability to do the job they were supposed to be doing.

 

 That is leadership on the PL's part by making sure the GM, QM and TG all suceed in their positions of responsibility.

 

And this exactly how to insure they won't!  Why should I do the work if the PL is going to cover all the bases himself.   

 

I'm seeing a serious lack of support leadership going on in this troop.   Your son has more problems than just being a GM.  As a parent I would be talking to the SM/ASM/TG/SPL and find out why they are expecting an untrained boy to do the job.  Where's his PL in all of this? 

 

 

@@Stosh

Isn't your advice about a "lack of support leadership" contradicting your criticism of my statement that the PL is responsible for making sure the other scouts are suceeding their positions of responsibility?  

Sometimes, I get the feeling that if someone else says something, you will tell them it is wrong.  But if you say the same thing, then it is the best way to proceed.

I've studied leadership not only in college, but throughout my life.  One of the things that stuck with me was that excellent leaders ADAPT to a situation.  What works for one situation may not necessarily work in other situations.  The best solution is one that takes into account all of the nuances of the situation.

Much of what you advocate is a scouting utopia, where every scout is perfect and does exactly what is required of them without any supervison or guidance from other scouts or adults.  Maybe that is your troop, but the rest of us have to deal with imperfect scouts, imperfect parents and imperfect leaders and we do our best to deliver a quality program under those circumstances. 

What I did was an exercise. Everyone took turns at being the leader. Everyone spent most of their time listening and if they had an idea they suggested it knowing it might get rejected. Everyone was also forced to take a turn at deciding everything for everyone. Believe it or not, this was the hardest part for most scouts. 

I've also found that making a decision to be the most difficult part of leadership for the boys.  For example, when the boys are deciding on outings, there is a tendency to come up with ideas, talk about them and then move on to something else without actually making a decision.  There is a balance between listening to people and trusting your own instincts (or you own wants) but ultimately a decision has to be made.  Even putting something to a vote is making a decision.

I also think that the exercise you did gives the boys a sense of how difficult it is to actually lead.  I find that people who are used to servant leadership make the best followers.

If a group has only one leader there cannot by definition be any team work.

 

A PL can determine the menu, but if the Grubmaster doesn't know how to prepare the food selection, the PL will have to cook.

A PL can determine the equipment but if the Quartermster doesn't have the equipment the PL will have to bring it.

A PL can pick out the movie for movie night but everyone's seen it the rest won't show up.

 

To think that rotating around the PL leadership among all the boys is like saying everyone has the same skills, the same talents, the same interests, the save drive, 

I would disagree.  A group without a leader is less likely to engage in teamwork.  A football team where the quarterback (or coach) doesn't call a play is not going to succeed.  The Grubmaster and Quartermaster are positions of responsibility, not leadership.  There is a difference.  A Quartermaster can do everything themselves (exercising their responsibility but no leadership) or can work with other scouts to accomplish what needs to be done (exercising both responsibility and leadership).  

A PL can facilitate his patrol in deciding on the menu, remind the Grubmaster to talk to the QM to make sure he has the right gear (e.g. Dutch Ovens for the pasta), work with the Grubmaster to assign cooking duties and work with the TG to make sure that boys who need to demonstrate cooking skills get the opportunity.  That is leadership on the PL's part by making sure the GM, QM and TG all suceed in their positions of responsibility.

Ultimately, the answer to my question seems to be that I's starting with a blank page of paper and developing this myself.  

I like @@MattR's approach of learning through doing and I agree with his learning through doing.  But I agree with @@Stosh that leadership isn't JUST telling people what to do and having them follow.  Servant leadership is about listening and building consensus.  Servant leadership is about working to enable the scouts you are leading to succeed in their roles.  Servant leadership is asking not what the scouts you are responsible for can do for you, but what you can do for them.

@@Eagledad and @@qwazse, I agree -- challenging activities can teach lessons better than any simulated activities.  

My cousin did a cool thing. He was took the old JLT and built their TLT on that model. I borrowed it. Far superior to what BSA offers today.

Any chance your cousin would let you share it with me to use as a reference?

Modify every lesson in ISLT into a wide game. S

My problem is that the boys view it as a game and don't really internalize the lessons.  I guess I'm thinking more real life challenges that require leadership, decision making and challenges.  

The agenda was based very closely to this.  In fact, after scanning this, it is very very close. 

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/ILST%20FINALS%202011%20-%20Item%20Number%20511-016.pdf

 

Yep, that's the one... 4 hours of PowerPoint, check the box... you're trained.

Hmmm, I don't do JLT, TLT, or ISLT.  I use a loosely defined patrol training program based on the GBB training program.  Everything is done on the patrol level only and issues are addressed only when the PL runs into difficulty. 

That is the method I've been using.  Took one boy aside this weekend and told him that he was showing real leadership because every time I saw him he was doing what had to be done without anyone telling him what to do.  He was taking care of the guys in his patrol.

No, he created the Brownsea 22 ( BA22) syllabus and crest.

 I'll have to track that syllabus down...

So we developed two courses. One course was for scouts that had no leadership experience. It was an overnight course that gave the scouts basic skills of leading they may have not observed in their patrols. The other course was presented after each election. It is basically a couple hours of guiding scouts of  their new responsibilities. 

Do you have any materials that you could share?

Generally, ... probably with a lot of help from the organizer/trainer... that it's a decent little class to cover leadership concepts

EXCEPT too much classroom setting and adults doing the talking instead of the scouts.

Your assessment is pretty  much the same as mine.

Our youth training program is awful.  It is the BSA troop leadership training program and really is a waste of time.  We do it on a Saturday in a classroom setting and I don't see any of the skills being either useful or used.  That being said, we've got two 8th graders going to NYLT this summer with a couple other scouts thinking about it.

I'd love to develop a weekend (Friday through Sunday) training program within the troop.  Some of the ideas (off the top of my head) that I'd like to focus on are:

1.  Servant Leadership (or Leading by Doing) vs. Command Leadership

2.  How Leaders Build Consensus

3.  Planning for Success vs. Failing to Plan

4.  Making Decisions

5.  Situational Awareness

6.  The Advanatages and Pitfalls of Adaptability

7.  The Importance of Relationships

8.  Finding Everyone's Role / Encouraging Strengths / Addressing Weaknesses

My questions are

1.  How does your Troop do leadership training?

2.  Do you have any materials you can share?

3.  Do you have any references, books, websites that I can draw from?

A neighboring council has a merit badge event (for lack of a better term) that is at least closer to actual learning.  The classes are held on two Saturdays that are two or three weeks apart.

There was one STEM fair done at the Princeton Plasma Physics lab.  It was clear on the prerequisites and what needed to be done before you got there.  It also provided that certain badges required post badge reports that had to be submitted.  My son too young (11 years old) to do the Nuclear Engineering, but man, that would have been exciting if he could have done it.

That being said, we didn't do either of the merit badge events,  so I really can't comment on them other than what I found to be different than the badge-for-attendance type fairs.

All that being said, I had a blast earlier this month doing the Chess Merit Badge with 12 scouts.  It was from 9:00 until 1:00 and the guys loved it.  But then again, these guys have four chess matches going at night during summer camp.

Troop has around 50 scouts.  SM, 10 parent ASMs at each meeting (probably around 4 to 5 on outings), 4 Eagled Out ASMs.  SPL and PLs are elected on a troop-wide basis.  ASPL is selected by SPL from a list provided by SM.  APL are assigned by SM.  Patrols are assigned by SM on an annual basis.  New scouts are assigned to patrols when they cross over.  We have 3 to 4 Packs that send us scouts anywhere from the beginning of March to mid-April.  We have gotten around 10 new scouts each year and keep around 9 of them.

As for the new scouts, they complete most of their T-1st requirements as part of the First Class Adventure at summer camp, so there isn't a big focus on that.  We tried an NSP last year.  We found that trying to teach the new scouts the requirements as a separate patrol seemed to be like Webelos 3 in that they are being instructed in skills -- with the only difference being it is an older scout rather than an adult.  It wasn't what the new scouts wanted to do.  The boys just wanted to have fun as part of the regular patrols.  

Our Troop has an amazing feel to it because the older boys really do include and make friends with the new scouts.  A lot of them know the older scouts from when they were in Cub Scouts together.  The boys decided around 10 years ago to go to mixed age patrols because those boys remembered what it was like to be the patrol of new scouts when the older scout patrol ignored and shunned them.  Their solution was that all the patrols would be mixed age.  The troop grew under that model from around 12 scouts to 40 scouts.  We made the jump from 40 to 50 by ramping up our outdoor program and becoming more boy led over the last couple of years.

I realize there are a LOT of things that we need to do better in terms of boy-led using the patrol method.  As an ASM, we've made a lot of progress in other areas (such as leading on outdoor program) but we have miles to go.  The irony of the situation is that it will take adult leadership to move the troop further toward being boy-led.  If they ask me to be SM....

How about something with rope?

There is a magic trick called the Popcorn Knot where you tie a knot in a rope and then when you pull the rope, the knot pops off to the floor.  You could talk about scouting being the knot that ties things together.  Starting in tigers it bring parents and their kids together, as the kids in a den move through Cub Scouts the become friends and work together.  The diffferent dens come together as a pack.  As you talk about this you tie the knot.  You have two boys hold each end of the rope.  Tell the audience that there is a magic in Cub Scouts because the knot that ties us together becomes so tight, you can hardly tell that the ropes were ever seperate.  Have the boys pull on the rope on the count of three and the knot flys off leaving a single rope.

If you are interested, I send me a private message and I'll type up the handling.

The Popcorn Knot is published in Karl Fulves' book, Self Working Rope Magic.  A great book for a Cubmaster or Scoutmaster to have.  Actually, the Cub Scout Magic Book is really a lot of fun. http://www.scoutstuff.org/cub-scout-magic.html#.VtIJu8dBaT8

I Grew up In Texas...Never wore shorts as a youth....Blue Jeans every day...Went to Philmont twice..Wore Blue Jeans everyday on the Trails and cowboy boots...Only wore BSA Pants to and from during travel...Still Never wear shorts...Each person has their own style..

 

Cotton is Rotten??? Not around here....Someone has drank kool aide

I love jeans and given the opportunity, I'll wear jeans.  However, when backpacking and camping in the conditions in the Northeast, wearing cotton isn't a good idea.  

I've been on backpacking treks in the late fall where it was 45 degrees during the day.  That is enough to work up a sweat carrying 30 pounds on your back doing 10 miles.  If you are wearing cotton, the cotton will absorb the mositure.  When the sun goes down, the temperature drops below 30 degrees  If that moisture hasn't evaporated, you are at risk of hypothermia.  Most scouts (and a lot of scouters) believe hypothermia is a result of being cold, when it really is a result of being wet.  You are more likely to get hypothermia if you ar wet and the temperature is between 35 an 45 degrees than if you are dry and the temperature is between 15 and 25 degrees.

In the summer, cotton clothing traps moisture and heat.  If your sweat can't evaporate, it can't cool your body.  Plus, who wants to be walking around with the arm pits and back of your shirt drenched in sweat?  Heck, I've even gotten rid of my old cotton polo shirts in favor of the new breathable fabrics.  It actually is the humidity.

I've had scouts get the equivalent of diper rash from wearing cotton underwear during backpacking treks during the summer.  Wearing cotton socks and hiking or backpacking 10 mies will result in blisters.  Did a preselntation to some Webelos and parents last night.  When I said "no cotton" the parent asked about underwear.  My answer was "no cotton even for underwear."  

Non-cotton clothing absorbs less moisture keeping you cool and dry.  Also, for backpacking, non-cotton clothing is lighter and more compressible (compare a cotton sweatshirt and a polyester one and jeans with non-cotton pants).  In snow and rain, non-cotton clothing dries faster.  

We've banned jeans on cold weather outings and switched our Class B shirts to non-cotton breathable materials.  

Burn out typically isn't a result of doing too much of something you enjoy.  

From the adult side, it is a result of having too much to do without any assistance (e.g. Cubmaster of pack of 50 boys where no other parents help with anything) or getting too much aggrivation from others in trying to do your best (e.g. adults who ignore BSA rules and interpret the program the way they want it).  

For the boys, burnout is doing the same thing, over and over and over again.  By the 5th year of Cub Scouts, the Webelos are just doing more of the same.  My son's den tried to ramp it up and make it more exciting.  I think we succeeded, but there still was some burn-out because despite our best efforts is still had components that feld like "school."  In Boy Scouts, it can be the same thing.  If a Troop does the same campouts each year, it gets old.  There is no new adventure.

BUT if you were to have a big slug of new scouts joining all at once, as we do these days around B&G or whenever we do our crossovers....

then it kindof stands to reason that they would form a NEW patrol of New Scouts.... or in other words, a patrol that just so happens to be made up of new scouts.... 

Or they might want to join a bunch of different patrlols.  When we get a group of 2 or 3 guys from a den, they want to be together.  When we get 4 or more, they usually have a buddy they want to be with.  I think the there is a big draw for they crossovers to be with the older "cool" scouts.

I like the NSP concept.  It would make our patrol leaders' lives much easier.  They just are getting the hang of leading after six months and then three fifth graders join their patrol causing all of the 6th graders to regress ( I tell them that is is just another challenge and that in life just when you think you have things under control, the situation changes).  However, as I said before, we got pushback from they new Scouts because they didn't want Webelos 3.

SM conferences must be scheduled a week in advance.

BORs can be done the same week as SM conferences or the following week.

EBORs are scheduled by council and take up to a month after the paperwork is approved.

Honestly, our committee is a disaster as far as advancement is concerned.  

That just represents a complete misunderstanding of the purpose of a BOR which is to see how the program is working for the scout.  

Sorry ... There is what BSA teaches and there is what many troops do.  It can be drastically different.  

Unfortunately.

My son crosses over to Boy Scouting next month.  The first merit badge he wants to try for is Chess.  The first requirement is about the history of chess.  I want to buy him a book, but the titles

that pop up on Amazon don't look like they would be appropriate for an 11-year-old.  Any suggestions?

https://www.chess.com/blog/jim_ostler/history-of-chess12

https://www.chess.com/article/view/the-10-most-important-moments-in-chess-history

http://www.mark-weeks.com/aboutcom/caa-hist.htm

Also, Troop 334 has a great powerpoint on the merit badge (although the history portion is somewhat lacking).  Just search BSA 334 Chess Merit Badge on Google.

My suggestion would be the Chess Merit Badge Book - chances are pretty good that it will discuss everything needed to meet the requirements.

The MB book is not that good on the history part.

my experience is only 1 in 10 groups want that option when presented with other choices. 

When we tried a NSP last year, the overwelming response from the new scouts was "when do I get to join a real patrol?"  We listened and let them join existing patrols.  

The NSP was added to the program around 1990 in an attempt to lower the dropout rate of first years scouts. More scouts drop out of the BSA during their first year in the than any other year. However, the dropout numbers 15 years later did not show improvement. Which means the assumption of why new scouts quit was wrong.

Most dropouts are boys who aren't sure they want to do scouting but do it because their parents think it is a good idea.  I suspect that any Den leader can tell you who will stick with scouting.  We find the Webelos are sort of burned out on the Cub Scout model and the NSP just makes it seem like more of the same.  

The biggest indicator of who stays with the troop is if the new Scout goes camping before the end of the school year.  One campout and they stay.

The one question that I like to ask is how the scout thanked the sponsors.

Again, I think you are out of line blaming the boy in this situation when the SM provides no guidance and then reams him out for not doing what the SM expects.  That is the hallmark of an adult led troop -- setting the boys up for failure.  

 

Not a problem, I have witnessed many cases where mom and dad come running to the rescue of  their precious little defenseless child from some Neanderthal brute of an abusive adult. 

It is very difficult for me not to take that as a sarcastic personal insult.  

If someone is bullying (defined as using a position of supreriority to manipulate them) my child, I will rectify the situation by using whatever power is at my disposal.  Sometimes, that will be the power of advice to my child.  When it is an adult using a position of power to belittle and demean a child, I will intervene - regardless of whether it is my child or someone else's child.  Sometimes, all that is needed to stand up for yourself is the knowledge that your parent will stand behind you.  

Guess "I" am not scouting material, wasnt' even a girl scout, BUT I know right from wrong and personal human kindness. 

You know more about scouting then you give yourself credit for.  A Scout is Friendly, Courteous and Kind.  Remind your son that a Scout is Cheerful and Brave.  And NEVER stop being a MOM.

Let me ask my son who is a 13 year old Star Scout.

If the SPL is supposed to be "running the troop", why isn't he the one talking with the CC and COR?  We're not talking about some young scout who's lost his necker and the SPL wouldn't help him find it, we're talking about an Eagle candidate who needs to step up his game and show a bit more leadership than just on his petty little Eagle project.  That project is supposed to be able to translate leadership into the real world out there.  What we have is leadership just enough to get by on the project.  If one is going to run with the big dogs, one had better learn how the pecking order works.  SSScouter seemed to allude to this quite nicely.

 

Maybe SPL is 6'+ and looks like a 17 year old, if he doesn't  have the fortitude to figure out this as being more than just wearing a patch or having a lesson plan written down, then he needs to find a more comfortable POR. 

Stosh:

I don't think that any Boy Scout should be expected to take on an adult who:  1) has a grudge against the boy because he won as SPL rather than the SM's son; 2) shows no respect for the BSA program (no blue cards, no merit badge counselor registration, no uniform, no CoH); 3) shows no respect for members of the Committee; 4) violates YPT guidelines regarding texting; and 4) has expressed a belligerent attitude toward the boy.  

I can tell you that if that was my son, it would not be a battle he fights alone.

New Committee Chair and relatively new Advancement Chair. Getting ready for some BORs on Monday and we were reviewing records. A kid wants a Life BOR.

 

And he's just turned 11.

 

Don't know how, but somehow he was registered when he was 9. And council must have accepted the application because he was on the council roster two years running. And I'm fairly certain that corrrect DOB is on the application. And although I haven't looked, I'm pretty certain the correct DOB is on his physical. Parents have no idea about Scouting and I'm 99.99999 percent they didn't have an idea about joining requirements. Dad is an retired fighter pilot from military. 

My suggestion for what it is worth.  Start by having a discussion with Dad. Explain the rules and that a mistake was made through no fault of him or his son.  Then explain the plan to get things back on track.  Stress that this could cause problems when he goes for Eagle and you want to fix it once and for all.

Next, have a Scoutmaster conference with the Scout. Explain the rules and that a mistake was made and it wasn't his fault.  Tell the scout that he is amazing for having accomplished what he had done so far.  Then (preferable with one of the boy's leading the discussion) go through the Tenderfoot through First Class requirements.  Anything that he "learned" can be demonstrated.  Anything that he did, would have to be after end of 5th grade (assuming he was 10).  It may not be the same event that he had credit for originally, but if he has done it since he gets credit.  Come up with a plan to have him "redo" any requirements that were done before he was eligible such as the exercise, cooking, orienteering, etc.  You could even make it so that he leads younger boys through those skills and events.  Make it a priority to have those done by the end of the school year.  Then do SM and BOR for Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class all at once.  This is the only way that there is NO QUESTION when he comes up for Eagle.

I'm all for letting the boys take care of their own advancement, but this is an adult caused problem that requires an adult implemented solution.

Finally, this is a great teaching moment for the Scout (and the leaders and parents).  We can teach that rules matter.  We can teach that all problems have a solution.  We can teach the value in mastering skills rather than just doing them once (still working on that with our Troop).  We can teach what it means to be Cheerful in the face of adversity and what it means to be Obedient.  We can teach what it means to be Brave in the face of disappointment.  

I'm not sure how you accomplish a do-over. 5-mile hike for Second Class was done when he was 9. But he got Hiking MB and did the AT when he was 10 and eligible to join. You gonna make him do a 5-mile hike when he's got the 50-miler? Same goes for First Aid. Got the MB at 10 when he was eligible to join but did Second and First Class first aid when he was 9. 

The miles for the 50 miler can count toward other requirements (Scout son counted  three days and 30 of those miles toward his backpacking merit badge).  The hikes for the Hiking MB can count toward the Second Class and First Class requirements but not toward other merit badges.

The First Aid requirements are "Satisfy your counselor that you have current knowledge of all first aid requirements for Tenderfoot rank, Second Class rank, and First Class rank."  There is no requirements that they need to be signed off on.  I suspect any merit badge counselor wouldn't rely on the sign off, but would have them show they know.