WisconsinMomma

If your troop does not pay for a Scout to go to NYLT, I would suggest setting up a scholarship for that first. If not, Wood Badge is an excellent idea. 

The Troop does a half and half payment for Scouts going to NYLT.   They pay half up front and then the other half when the Scout completes whatever their equivalent of a ticket is for NYLT.

I do not see a lot of what happens at Troop meetings, sometimes I go and sit off to the side or out in the hallway but it is my impression that NYLT is very good for the boys who went to it.   The boys who went liked it and want to go back to staff it and that is all very very good. 

Here is another piece of our Troop's bylaws that needs to go:

A designated member of the Parent Committee shall keep a “cuss†box. 25 cents will be charged for every word considered by the troop to be a "cuss". Theft from the "cuss" box will be punishable with the return of the money in twofold. The money will be periodically turned over to the Troop Treasurer for the Troop funds. The "cuss" box is applicable at Troop meetings and all Troop outings.

Doh!

Right.  The problem I have with this bylaw is that it is dictating to a Scoutmaster how things must be done.   I think the easiest proposal may be to eliminate this part of the bylaws altogether, and let a Scoutmaster do his or her job.  If the Scoutmaster wants a new scout patrol, great, if not, great, and ideally the Scoutmaster is listening to the boys about how they want to organize. 

ETA:  I am guessing our Troop could use more training on the patrol method.  Changing this bylaw might open up some conversation. 

Here is the language from our Troop bylaws.  Any suggestions on how to re-write? How are patrols typically formed -- by the Scoutmaster? 

Thank you for any help.

The older scouts are organized into 2 or more permanent patrols depending on the size of the troop. New scouts that have just crossed over from the cub pack will be placed in their own patrol for their first year. In the following January, the Scoutmaster or their designee will break up the new scout patrol and will distributed its members into the existing permanent patrols.

ETA: I could just propose that the Troop eliminate all the bylaws and just operate under BSA policy!  People would likely freak, but it might be interesting!  

Eagle 94, sorry to hear about the New Scout Patrol being set up.   I was just reading our Troop's bylaws and a new scout patrol is written into our Troop's bylaws!   I could use some help coming up with a way to try work with our parent committee to get this particular detail changed.  

My goal for doing it via a designated Troop fund would be to raise awareness and hopefully motivate a few people, anybody -- to go participate in Wood Badge.  Any leader that gets trained will make the Troop stronger, and attendees still need to take time for the 6 days of training.  

I am not sure if providing funding will achieve the goal of getting more attendees to the course though. 

I'm thinking about personally funding a Wood Badge scholarship program for adults in our Troop.

Generally, it would get funded 1x a year in an amount to cover one attendee's Wood Badge course fee.

Any registered adult in the Troop could attend  Wood Badge, first come first serve.

I could commit to funding the scholarship for approximately the next ten years.

Does this sound like something that would be useful and appreciated by a Troop? 

I understand.  Everybody, or most people, seem to like the current system the way it is.  And as I said, it runs fairly smooth, but not boy led.

A has already placed the next Scoutmaster (husband and wife) after this one's (husband and wife) tenure is up.  I do not know them well. 

A said two meetings ago he does not trust anyone, and that he doesn't want just anyone to be Treasurer.

A's departure started as -- I am stepping down as cc but I will be in the Troop and retain my district position.  One month later, the new announcement is that he is leaving as Treasurer when a new one is found and I am leaving my district position and I am retiring from Scouting. 

We just need a new Treasurer.  I asked my husband if the new cc doesn't have a Treasurer in 3 months, would he volunteer? And he agreed.  My husband is easygoing enough to allow himself to be trained by A in how A wants everything done.  I do not think that A is messing with the finances in any sort of bad way and I am not familiar with the details of BSA financial policies.   He is very particular about things being done to his standards and processes.  I just started as secretary and changed the look and feel of the minutes. It didn't go over well, but so far, I have survived in the position!  Whew!  

I do not know who our commissioner is, and as a newer parent, I am still in the process of forming relationships with the more established families.  Making those relationships and building trust with them is most important.  Since the retiring cc is on the way out, and since he makes it sound as if he's popular at the district too, I don't think it's necessary to escalate.  

I would love to recruit my Wood Badge ticket advisor's son to our troop, and I invited them to visit us... but it seems their school typically goes to a different troop.  We need more leaders.  I agree! 

Also I have thought of donating money to the Troop in an ongoing scholarship for one leader every year to go to Wood Badge.  I need to discuss this with my husband and I also am not sure how the committee will react.  

The person with the loud voice was the committee chair until last month, and our new cc is a very, very nice person that has a lot of respect for the retiring cc chair.  Very agreeable.  The new cc also served as Scoutmaster under the retiring cc. Because the Troop was strongly adult led for many years, they have a smooth program and I'm sure a lot of people who have been around for a while appreciate how well organized everything feels. Right now the retiring cc is serving as Treasurer until a new one is found.  I've made some recommendations for parents of current Scouts who might step in.  If a new Treasurer is not recruited soon, I'm going to ask my husband to volunteer (he's an ASM now) to move things along. Except my husband kind of likes a little bit of authoritarianism too. And when the future retiree speaks as if he's the expert on everything forever, some people find it hard to resist. LOL.  But the group will change, everything changes, time is on my side of things.

When he was cc, he called a very strange meeting with my husband and I to complain about our son with ADHD, and wanted us to helicopter our son more because he was uncomfortable with our kid being in Scouts.  We resisted.  When I gave him some articles about working with Scouts with ADHD, he pushed them back at me and said, I'm not interested.  Not my problem. (Nevermind that the CC shouldn't be interacting with my son to begin with. He said that he was going to not interact with the boys anymore, but then he went back on that and personally worked with my son on some 2nd class requirements at camp so my son could advance.  And while that may have been a kind gesture that my husband appreciates, the guy didn't stick to the plan he laid out with us.)  Whenever I have connected with him with a question, comment or suggestion about Scouting, the responses have been very negative and he said to me something like -- I resent it when anyone tries to tell me about how Scouting works. (aka, he knows it all and takes no input)  I am not a fan, but my husband is still respectful because this man's style is one where he demands and commands respect and authority. 

I have to be careful not to come across as too anti-retiring-cc, because he is popular.  It's challenging.

ETA: I think the route to progress and greater boy involvement is through the Scoutmaster.  Everyone in the current leadership group is close with the retiring cc (or so it seems, everyone except me!), of course the cc placed the Scoutmaster and they are also neighbors.  But our Scoutmaster is reasonable and I think everyone will be more receptive to suggestion after the former cc leaves for good. 

I would love it if our Troop did likewise, but they are not there yet.  Right now we have a committee Scouter who is on his way to retiring from Scouts, but who has had what feels like an iron grip on the Troop and Troop adults in the past for years. This person is for me, one of those rare,very difficult people and I'm trying to have some grace and patience with it. Change can't come fast enough, IMO.  But there is also a culture among all the adults that needs to change and that takes time.  The pluses for my sons are that the boys and adults in the troop are kind, it's our home troop, and the boys seem to enjoy it.  I think that in time, I (or my husband) can make some suggestions through the Scoutmaster to give the boys more freedom and be a little more patrol led.  However, it's going to take time.  When I read here about patrols going on hikes by themselves, I ran it by a troop parent and my husband and it feels like we are a long way from that sort of thing.  One step at a time. 

In our troop, the adults currently decide where the boys will camp, and they go to the same place every year.  I would like to suggest that the boys be given some choices and a voice in these decisions, but, as our family is newer to the troop and committee, we don't have a lot of influence in helping these ideas along just yet.   Right now, I am strongly suggesting that the Troop  survey families and consider moving the camping week one week later to help out baseball families who have to make a decision between championship games and Boy Scout camp, and but that has had some resistance from more traditionalist adults. It seems that some sort of input will be sought out, but I'm not sure how it's going to go down. 

Until recently the Troop camped at Lefeber in Wisconsin and now they go to Gardner Dam. 

ETA:  I could suggest at our December meeting that the boys have a choice in camps, but I'm afraid it would not go over well. 

Stosh thanks for mentioning Camp Freeland Leslie, I will at least read up on it.  

We might have to meditate on whether "Prancy Susie" is the right way to refer to a female Scout. 

How did this situation turn out in real life? 

I agree that working with difficult people can make a person stronger.  But, it's not always a blessing or educational.  Let's be real that bullying, intimidation and other un-Scoutlike behaviors happen.

I would never say that you should dismiss anyone, unless their behavior violates a code of conduct.  That's not the point.

If a person thinks that girls earning Eagle will make the honor worthless, or that a difficult female is worse than a difficult male, or that a man being treated badly is worse than a woman being treated badly, or that a man's work or education is more important or valuable than a woman's work or education, or a male's opinions and enjoyment are more important and valuable than a female's, etc. etc. etc.... then that person is going to have some issues to work through as the program changes.

Now, seriously, most people in Scouting are absolutely wonderful, most people in day to day life are easy to work with or at least tolerable, but --- there are a very very few, rare people who are very very difficult and horrible to deal with.  I have met very domineering, sexist men, and very manipulative women.  Either gender can wreak havoc on the program.  Girls are not going to be inherently worse than boys.  

The requirement says "campout or other outdoor activity".  See if a local Troop has an outing coming up that the Arrow of Light scout can attend during daytime hours.

My Arrow of Light den did not camp with a Troop, we visited a troop during their fishing outing.  Drove out in the morning, spent several hours, and left in the afternoon.  This kind of outdoor activity may be more feasible for the scout in your den.

As to the boy's future in Boy Scouts, that's a choice for him and his family, of course.  Do not stress over it.

Gender has everything to do with it. There are women and girls who become highly agitated when confronted by men. They feel it is demeaning to be in a subordinate role to a man.

There are also men who feel superior to women and are demeaning to them.  It goes both ways. 

When the girls come in, the male chauvinists can get out. 

Most men and most women are reasonable.  

That's an excellent article, Mike!!  Thanks for sharing it.   Have you considered sending it in to the Scouting blog (Bryan on Scouting)?  Maybe they would publish it? 

<<<This is a forum: over thinking is what we do.

Barry>>>

LOL, Barry!   That's a good one.

Here's a quote from one of my favorite mentors:

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift and that's why it's called the present.

We can agree to disagree then.  I believe that the Youth Protection guidelines will protect and prevent many problems.  Of course there are errors and things that need to be addressed.  People make mistakes and will need to be coached and corrected at times.  

I think that most Scouters are up to the challenges of a changing program and have the skills and courage to build a future that includes female Scouts.  

There's not a lot of reason to over-think or over-worry in advance.  

Lastly, if a man does not want to work with women and girls because he is afraid of false accusations, or for any other reason, then he will need to make a choice about his role in the organization if / when more women and girls become involved. 

If you do not think that the young women in the future of Scouting will be both clean and trustworthy, then perhaps it is time to reconsider your involvement. 

In Scouting, youth uphold values to a higher standard than the general population.

The BSA has Youth Protection and two-deep leadership. This should help protect everyone regarding matters of privacy.   Follow the guidelines and behave properly and any leader, male or female, should be fine. 

I don't think there's anything to worry about... unless a person is behaving badly.  Then yes, that person should be very, very worried. 

My guess is that current Girl Scouts are not necessarily the most likely "market" for this.  I think that girls who have quit the Girl Scouts, or never joined, are much more likely to join the Cub Scouts.  That's just a guess, of course.

I'm not sure, there are only so many girls in elementary school, and right now, there's a lot of Girl scouts, and here's what it looks like, a family with a boy and a girl will have Dad in the Pack with his son and Mom in the Girl Scouts with the daughter, and that's the current pattern.

I asked a mom of one of my former Cub Scouts about girls in Cubs, sort of hinting that she could come over to the Pack, but why would she?  Only if she has enough frustration with GSUSA and only if her group wants to come with her.  I can't see this very nice lady rocking the boat and switching teams.

We'll have to see if an organic interest in girls in Cubs develops.  I'm very curious to see how it unfolds, but because I have no daughters, we don't have any kind of choice to make in the matter. 

I can only share what I observed in Wood Badge from our Quartermaster crew.   Make sure you know your camp and where to get all of the resources, tools, whatever needed.  Second, help make the work fun for everybody.  Hope that helps! 

I mentioned girls in Boy Cub Scouting to a few moms of daughters in Girl Scouts and received a very muted reaction.  Right now I am not sure we will have any interest in girls' dens.  But if there is interest, then we can start to figure it out. 

My Wood Badge course director is female, and she is outstanding.  She wears an order of the arrow pocket flap patch so I assume she's an OA member.  She also has been awarded a silver beaver.  So, there are definitely adult females in OA already.  I don't know much about OA but women are a part of it.  A Google search shows that female adult leaders were welcomed starting in 1988:

https://history.oa-bsa.org/node/3403

Hey guys, whatcha doin?