DuctTape

The key word here to me has always been "carry". There are a lot of things kids can't/shouldn't carry, and yet we still let them use them. Axes and hatchets for example. Should the BSA ban axes and hatchets because kids could hurt themselves with them? I personally think a hatchet is more dangerous than a fixed blade knife, but even still I wouldn't advocate banning hatchets. I'm all for learning how to use tools safely, including fixed blade knives, hatchets, etc.

 

Here's how I'd approach it. Start with introducing fixed blades as a camp tool, not as a carry item. If you jump in hoping to put a sheath on every kid's belt, you'll get a lot more resistance. Suggest putting a couple of fixed blade knives in the troop tool kit with axes and hatchets, and teach kids how to baton kindling with a knife. Which, you can explain to the kids and other adults, is FAR safer than chopping up kindling with a hatchet. You can't cut wood down to kindling with a hatchet without putting your hands at risk. Well, you can, but it's a little tricky. Far more tricky than batoning.

 

But no one can argue with batoning being safer than hatchet chopping kindling. It's safer, much safer I think, than having to hold the wood with your hand and tapping a hatchet into it. Even worse when you have a kid try taking a swing at a piece of wood while they're holding it up with their hand.

State parks around here do not allow scout-age teens to camp without an adult.

 

http://nysparks.com/publications/documents/NYSParksRulesRegulations.pdf

No person under the age of 18 will be permitted to camp unless accompanied and supervised by a person 18 years of age or older who has been issued a permit; provided, however, that at such facilities as may be designated by the commissioner, no camping permit will be issued to any person under the age of 21.

 

http://www.mass.gov/eea/agencies/dcr/massparks/recreational-activities/massparks-camping-info-generic.html

Customers must be 18 years or older to make a reservation.

Photo ID is required upon registration at the campground.

 

http://www.nhstateparks.org/experience/camping/camping-policies.aspx

A camping permit or reservation shall not be issued to anyone under 18 years old.

Minors must be accompanied by an adult who accepts all responsibility for the camping party.

 

http://www.vtstateparks.com/pdfs/rule_current.pdf

The designated head of the camping party staying overnight on the site must be at least 18 years of age and is responsible for the conduct of all campers and visitors on the site

 

Add to that, that many parks now use online reservation services which require a credit card.

 

Never had those restrictions back in the day when I was a scout planning campouts, just typed a letter and mailed it (with cash) to the park ranger,

Vermont also has plenty of state land (and national) open for primitive camping for free without permit. I am sure a quick search will find the same for NH. Doubtful for MA tho.

The simple reality is that going out and camping is harder to do today than it was 50 years ago.

Baloney.

 

50 years ago (1964), few if any Boy Scouts had ever heard of a backpack waist belt, which changed Delway's back country travel as radically as the invention of the stirrup changed the history of warfare.

 

If anything, the worldwide test of a First Class Scout, a 14 mile overnight backpack Journey with a heavy pack hanging directly off our shoulders, was harder 50 years ago.

 

But the whole point of backpacking is that a Boy Scout's direct experience of nature can be the same now as it was 50 years ago.

 

Note that the "simple reality" apology for Parlor Scouting is a description of front country Patrol camping, not Delway's back country backpacking. As such:

 

50 years ago we did not take rifles backpacking. Those of us with Svea 123 stoves did not bother with campfires. Or hatchets. Or gathering firewood. No law then or now prohibits unsupervised teenagers from backpacking in national forests (or most state wilderness areas). Such venues are free, not "more expensive." State-of-the-art backpacks from the 70s & 80s can be purchased now for $5. We never stayed in one place for a week in the back country, and no adult ever checked up on us. We did not use public transportation for backpacking: When I got my driver's license we drove 100 miles to the Adirondacks on school vacations (oh, DuctTape, I lost your Email). I know "21st century" Scouts who drive 200 miles after I get them addicted to backpacking.

 

So why can't "21st century trained" Boy Scout leaders tell the difference between a backpacking trip and a Patrol outing?

 

48 years ago the father of modern Wood Badge, John Larson, won the battle to replace outdoor leadership with indoor leadership:

 

http://www.whitestag.org/history/history.html#1965

 

So now Wood Badge is designed for Den Mothers, the "Patrol Method" presentation of Scoutmaster training replaces Patrol Leaders with adult-led EDGE theory (nobody noticed), and we pay our Chief Scout Executive a million dollars a year to bash camping.

 

But Delway the good news: If you stick to your guns (and also give your most mature Scouts some freedom on two-deep back country trips), your Troop's backpack program can become popular beyond your wildest dreams.

 

Check out our January backpack "Cumberland Island National Seashore: Day One" (and Day Two)

 

https://plus.google.com/100437668559826261011/posts

Resending original so you have it.

dT

I've been around a long time and I have never seen a fully uniformed troop where there wasn't some heavy influence from the adults one way or another. Not that I'm judging, I really don't care. But one has to take "it's the boys program" with a grain of salt. Our uniform policy is the scout handbook. It's pretty cut and dry, which keeps the adults from influencing the scouts with their personal opinions. We do have an activities uniform, mostly to give the field uniform a break in the Oklahoma 100 degree heat. But field uniforms are expected at meals and assemblies. Our guys do know how to wash uniform. I personally feel the uniform is a great tool for character self reflection. Just about every boy passes through a phase (around 14 years old) of paying special attention to their self image while wearing the uniform. How they handle it is a reflection of their character and a great opportunity to guide them in the values involved with the uniform. I also find adults struggle with the Uniform method more than any of the Other seven methods because their reasoning for or against it is more emotional than pragmatic to the growth of the scouts. Boys aren't near as emotional about uniforms and as a result, they are rebellious when they don't get reasonable answers that apply to their generation. Barry

My first thought was he is pushing the patrol to plan a front country trip because he doesn't like to backpack. So now he want the patrol to act as though it was a backpacking trip. sounds like he needs to learn more about being a member of a patrol and not push his own way. perhaps another patrol which doesn't like to backpack would be more to his liking.

The idea that scouts will participate or be motivated solely by personal gain is the antithesis of Scouting. If they aren't doing their best, as service to others with pure motives absent of personal gain then they aren't being true scouts, and we are failing them by not providing the opportunity for a program to instill that virtue.

I wonder if in the troops where this issue is the greatest, the fundraisers are designed, implemented and run by adults or are they part of the boy-led program? Perhaps this is a symptom of something greater. I know in my troop, the fundraisers are all adult -run. This is something I have been slowly working on. Difficult to change when "this is how we have always done it". Since many/most of the boys aren't invested in this part of the program due to them not having any real part of the process, the issue comes up often for me. I am slowly training the adults to learn what boy-led means.

The idea that scouts will participate or be motivated solely by personal gain is the antithesis of Scouting. If they aren't doing their best, as service to others with pure motives absent of personal gain then they aren't being true scouts, and we are failing them by not providing the opportunity for a program to instill that virtue.

Neither.

"A boy may wear all the scout uniforms made, all the scout badges ever manufactured, know all the woodcraft, campercraft, scoutcraft and other activities of boy scouts, and yet never be a real boy scout. To be a real boy scout means the doing of a good turn every day with the proper motive and if this be done, the boy has the right to be classsed with the great scouts that have been of such great service to their country." -J. Alexander

as written in the 1911 Handbook for Boys

I never understood what was wrong with the aim, methods, etc... of scouting as written by J. Alexander in the 1911 Handbook.

"The aim of the Boy Scouts is to supplement the various existing educational agencies and to promote the ability in boys to do things for themselves and others."

"The method is summed up in the term Scoutcraft, and is a combination of observation, deduction and handiness, or the ability to do things."

"This is accomplished in games and team play, and is pleasure, not work, for the boy."

"All that is needed is the out-of-doors, a group of boys, and a competent leader."

I don't send friend requests to scouts (because I'm in a position of authority and I feel that could make a scout feel like he has no choice in accepting) but if a scout sends me a request I'll accept it.

 

I suppose that is the online version of no one on one contact.

Except not, since interactions on FB are public, except for private/instant messages which are no different than a phone call.

Our troop has a FB page. Since FB requires account holders and anyone using FB be 13+ years old, those under 13 would be lying if they use or have an account. We remind them a scout is trustworthy. For those over 13, I am not "friends" with them. Any interaction on FB can be done via the troop page in full view of everyone. I suppose that is the online version of no one on one contact.

12 year old boys are learning to be men. Puberty is taking its toll, and girls have gone from something of limited interest into completely sexual objects. Part of our molding boys into men is to help them shape their views during this time period.

 

1st Class is a serious rank, from there it's straight on to Eagle if he wants it. Whether you do a serious 6 month delay, or a slap on the wrist for a few weeks delay, you'll be communicating that this is not how men behave towards women.

 

Teaching him that this behavior is not the proper behavior for a gentleman is a great thing you can do for him. Punishing him is his guardian's responsibility, but shaping his character through scouting is the goal of the program.

 

Looks like some work on being Friendly, Courteous, Kind and Clean is in order.

 

I wouldn't wait 6 months, I'd tell him that you'll reconvene in a month and see if he is improving in his living the Scout Law. A monthly review process gives him an opportunity to get constant feedback on if he's getting better.

Term Limits in California also proved to be a reform that caused more problems. New members of the State Legislature start working on their next position, nobody as the experience, and unelected bureaucrats and staffers hold the knowledge and power.

 

Improving/fixing the takings clause debacle that was shown in the Kelo decision is simple - pass it at the state level. That is what the Supreme Court told us to do.

 

I would love to see Wickard v Filburn overturned - that was when the Commerce Clause really got out of whack. The current court is nibbling away, but it could be tough to go further (and the net neutrality decision could end up with a solution that is not worth the price).

 

Always remember that the convention to fix the Articles (as noted by Pack18Alex) resulted in the Constitution. Patrick Henry refused to serve under the new form, and predicted many of the modern problems we have today.

"However, he said if his sons had a gay leader, "we would have to take a look at making other arrangements."" Gay leaders (role models) is and has been the main issue from the beginning. Barry

Another solution to ask the scouts is if they want to attend. In my troop, during their annual planning they assumed they had to do _____ because that is what has always been done, None of them really cared for it, but a few of the adults that have been around really like it and these scouters try to sell the district and council camporees to the scouts. These adults wonder why all but the most involved scouts (read: those who never miss anything) don't go. The scouts were surprised when they realized they didn't have to put ____ camporee on the calendar.

Often boys do only what they know and/or think they are allowed/expected to do. Sometimes reminding the boy leaders that THEY get to decide what the trip will be. Some might not realize they can contact other troops and do joint trips, heck even a klondike derby outside of the council/district. If the boys know they have options and that the adults support their decisions. I use the 3 questions 1. Is it safe? 2. Is it Scouting 3. Is it fun? as the deciding metric with my boy leaders.

Basketry & Snorkling

yeah, I know snorkling isnt a MB.

I have noticed in the last couple decades a directional shift in Eagle projects to be more structure building requiring significant material cost and expertise well beyond that of a scout. In the past, projects were more labor intensive requiring the candidate to organize other scouts (and some adults) to accomplish a significant task, any cost was usually minor and often the benefiting organization would pony up that small amount.

In all of your estimations, what percentage of projects require significant fundraising? Have you noticed a difference from years past?

If you do decide to start a new troop, the CO doesn't need to exist already. The adults can form a "Group of Citizens" and become the CO. In effect it is the TC which is the CO. The difficulty is finding a location. Sometimes organizations are more willing (or able) to allow BSA to use their facilities without being the CO. Public Schools for example.

Like I said it depends on the what is meant by "work with," which has not been spelled out by the OP. The scoutmaster is responsible for providing training to the patrol leaders, whether via troop leadership skills training or a matter of routine diligence. It could be simply that he is delegating some of that to ASMs he trusts for matters of schedule, etc. If he is asking adults to be de facto "Den Leaders" that is another matter.

Oh it's not so unbelievable. Takes some planning, some denial of other activities (tv, video games, dance lessons, ) and some effort at finding the proper MBC and time limits ("be the Troop Bugler for three months")..Home schoolers are like that. Chemistry MB is a middle school curriculum. Astronomy is a two week science curriculum. American Heritage is History lined up! If Scoutson had been more attentive to things, and mom and dad had been more pushy , he could have earned the Citizenship in the Nation in a week instead of two months......

 

I hope he finds (and deserves) the scholarship to the school of his choice. OR, invents the alternative to the internet.

While we cannot go back and un-ring the bell, I wonder if the scout was advised to reconsider the size and scope of the project to fit within the budgetary constraints of the money raised. Adapting to this type of challenge is one of the major learning pieces of the eagle project. It sounds like the parents with all the good intentions unwittingly denied their boy a great opportunity to learn. IMO, their penance should be to now view that money as a donation.

So the Train the Trainer is changing from just the EDGE course to 3 courses.!.

 

Counting twenty minutes of EDGE in place of the Patrol Method in the "Patrol Method" session of Scoutmaster Specific Training?

Any entity can apply for a Federal EIN. One doesn't need to be tax-exempt or a business. The pack, even the den level can apply. Call the IRS and ask how to apply, or apply online.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-%26-Self-Employed/Apply-for-an-Employer-Identification-Number-(EIN)-Online

I've got one of the platypus filters, but I have to say I've never used it. I really bought it more as an emergency/disaster thing than for camping though.

I was hoping that more folks would chime in with experiences and comments. I guess, as brewmeister pointed out, they aint too popular.

From what I read on whiteblaze.net, gravity filters are the in thing these days for AT hikers (the ones that use filters, more seem to use just chemicals (Aqua mira drops), and a large group of foolhardy hikers seem to just be careful about their water source, and use no water treatment (I'm not brave enough to buy their arguments)) I bought a Sawyer 3 in 1 at the Scout shop a few months ago. I'm looking for a camelbak style bladder to use with it to convert it to a gravity filter. Gravity filters make sense to me, but I'm basically lazy. Have yet to use it in the field.