DuctTape

I know my suggestions would not be popular, but I would:

 

Increase the rigor of the requirements for Tenderfoot through First Class.

 

Prohibit the working on/earning of Merit Badges until the scout has earned First Class.

 

Prohibit the use of non-adults as Merit Badge counselors at summer camp.

 

Prohibit Large group Merit badge classes (MB universities/mills).

 

I also agree with limiting the focus on religion. There are many other aspects of the oath and law which are just as important IMO. I do not see why we give special attention to one of them. we don't have a special declaration "to keep myself physically fit", nor do we remove scouts who are not "mentally awake", etc...

I had a similar discussion with non-scouters about what defines camping. This was while we backpacked a 30 mile loop. So we had quite a bit of time to discuss the concept. We discussed gear, sleeping, cooking, distance, activities, etc... We attempted to determine at what point did something become "camping". It became apparent that one item did not define something as camping, nor did the absence of it eliminate camping as the label. In the end, it we decided it was like Justice Stewart said about pornography, "I shall not today attempt further to define... I know it when I see it".

A pot blackened on the outside may be clean, or it may not. The same is true for a silver pot, it may be clean or not. I (we) see no need to spend the time to remove the blackening from the outside of the pot as it does not determine the cleanliness so it is a waste of time. Not to mention, the soap and soot removal is one of the messiest activities. Part of this is the soap the outside system has been used for so long by many, they think it must be the only correct way.

I never understood the soaping thing either, even as a scout. Growing up, all my cook gear was black on the bottom. In scouts we had to soap and clean the bottom of the patrol pots. I started to bring my own blackened ones. Still bring my own as a scouter and let the other adults soap and clean the bottom of theirs.

The farther one has to walk from the car to the campsite, the less cooking gear is carried. As Stosh discussed, less cooking gear doesn't require inferior meals. I personally do week long (or more) backpacking trips covering (sometimes) over 20 miles a day. My mess kit is a small pot and a cup. I eat very well. It takes practice and preparation. As stosh also said, the boys learn by watching. They saw me make a one pot jambalaya using the small 1.5qt from a patrol kit for the adults one night. The next meeting they asked me for the recipe. They made it for themselves on the next trip.

 

 

How exactly do you "monitor for cell phones" a Patrol backpacking without helicopters?

 

 

Yours at 300 feet!

 

Cell phones are rendered moot when one is on a trail with no service.

 

Take a look here: http://www.onepanwonders.com/ to get some ideas, then you can get creative! Have fun.

You don't carry your Scout Handbook or Field Manual with you? Horrors!

Not on every trip. Take gear that is needed. Sime trips are pure adventure and the learning comes from the experience and testing skills and knowledge without having the resource at ones finger tips as a bailout. This type of learning promotes creative problem solving and adaptation. Some trips are learning with resources at ones finger tips, the goal is different. The right tool for the job.

You don't carry your Scout Handbook or Field Manual with you? Horrors!

Not on every trip. Take gear that is needed. Sime trips are pure adventure and the learning comes from the experience and testing skills and knowledge without having the resource at ones finger tips as a bailout. This type of learning promotes creative problem solving and adaptation. Some trips are learning with resources at ones finger tips, the goal is different. The right toil for the job.

How many smartphone opponents out there use one and like it? My guess is that those of us who use smartphones are in favor of them' date=' while those who don't are against them. What I like it is that I can have numerous references at my fingertips. I guess I'm too lazy to carry around a dozen books.[/quote']

 

I use a smartphone all the time, in the real world. However, when I go camping I don't One of the reasons is my desire to be unplugged from the real world. Having that electronic tether diminishes my enjoyment of the outdoors. Secondly, I choose places where there is no service anyway. The smartphone is extra useless weight. Sure apps are fun, and great learning tools but the real adventure begins when you head out and use the things you learned. So I don't carry around any books either on these adventures.

IMO, if they are this young with such little experience in planning/buying/prepping/cooking for themselves let alone their patrols it is too early to even begin looking at the merit badge requirements. When they have significant experience, then they should make contact with a MB counselor and with a buddy work on the MB, but not as a whole class. MB's, IMO, should never be done "as a class".

I believe you are remembering the Bakepacker. http://www.bakepacker.com/

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

You are correct, I am coming from a Boy Scout direction. However, I still don't think it takes an MBA to handle what you describe as what you want for your pack, nor do I believe that bling and expensive big events are the only way to recruit and retain. One of the problems with going big, is the need to go bigger the next time. Children need recognition, but one must be careful to not externalize the reward. When the reward or recognition becomes greater than the accomplishment itself, it defeats its purpose. Not saying this is happening in your pack. Just something I have seen before and mentioning it for awareness. It is obvious you are successful with your pack by playing to your strengths. As you said, you are a by the numbers guy and like the business model. Others are just as successful utilizing completely different strategies; non-business models. It's kind of like the saying, If you only have a hammer everything looks like a nail.

One solution is to camp in locations where there is no cell service.

 

One of the reasons for my own backcountry adventures is to be unplugged from the "real world". I find it difficult to truly appreciate my trip if I am connected to the outside world. I try to encourage this with the boys. Enjoy your adventure by experiencing what is around you. Share the experiences with others when you return with photos and stories.

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

I hear what you are saying. I suppose my gripe is the need for "big events' and the focus on awards etc... Scouting IMO should be simpler, focused on the boys spirit of adventure. the planning, organizing, etc... should be borne by them. I am sure the boys like the Big Event, but was it theirs? did they plan it? Organize it? Of course young boys cannot do this, but as they plan their smaller events they learn and the next adventure will be better. It is how they grow. I suppose we are just looking at the adults role from different angles. I view the adults role to help the boys accomplish their plans, with advice but not do the work for them. If they ask me to do something specific, of course I will lend a hand. Like if they need me to send in paperwork to secure a spot at Philmont.

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

My point was if you need MBA's and accountants on your committee, then perhaps the program itself is not focusing on the boys and scouting. It doesn't take an advanced degree in accounting to keep a basic spreadsheet for scouts. If it does, then I question whether the focus of the pack, or troop is on Scouting for Boys or whether it is scouting for adults.

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

Personally, I think the one of the biggest problems is the BSA is trying to be to businesslike. The issues cited which require so much bookkeeping, paperwork, forms up the wazoo, MBA-style training and the large overhead of people at council/national are directly related to each other.

 

Us teachers, blue collar workers, etc... can easily handle what is necessary to help the boys run a troop. The problem is too much stuff is being sent down which becomes an obstacle in helping the boys seek adventure.

 

The problem is BSA shouldn't be a business, nor run with a business model. Some basic accounting, yes. But beyond that, get them out of the conference rooms, take away the "workbooks", and let the boys out and have adventures in the woods, water and fields using the Scouting model.

 

edit: Final comment. A 3.6M budget isn't really that much and doesn't require paying someone a quarter million $ or more to manage it. School superintendents get paid less than $200K and they have an operating budget in near $100 million. I have run spreadsheets for small organizations tracking $250k in my spare time without compensation.

You will almost always have a core group that is truly interested in being outdoors. Have a well-skilled ASM invite them by invitation only (because he feels like it) on some outings that won't cost them much but are truly woodcraft. Hopefully, they will have such a great time that word will spread and a growing number will put away their computers and pick up their hike staves.

In teaching knots, you also have to teach the useful applications. What's this knot good for? Why this knot and not that one? If I want to bundle these poles together what knot works best and prove it. Many will be interested in learning the Cliff Jacobson's Trucker's Knot because it sounds so macho.

Lastly, stop providing subscriptions to Boy's Life. Get them all Backpacker Magazine instead

I had typed up a longer response to the OP yesterday, but the system had an error and it didn't post. That said, I agree with much of what boomer said. In my original post, I wrote a bit about the scout skills like knots. The purpose of all of them is, as boomer wrote, in their application. Thus the place to teach and practice them is not in the scout meetings but first in the outdoors. Lastly, while I agree with boomers sentiment about the magazine, I am not a fan of Backpacker. Like BL, it has devolved from what was once a great mag. It now is just a giant ad for expensive gear.

Starting a new unit is not that hard. You need a chartering organization, such as VFW, elks lodge, PTA, Church, or a business. You will need a place to hold meetings, leaders, and 6 scouts. The paperwork is a few pages of forms.

The Chartering Org can also be a "Group of Citizens", which can be the Committee.

Or try this:

even with self inflators, one often needs to add some air, or inflate them quicker.

One of the reasons the scout camps are so expensive is because they keep increasing infrastructure which is expensive to begin with and then the maintenance costs. Too many are trying to be mini-resorts which happen to do some scout stuff. Focus should be on the woods and camping.

Current Eagle projects teach a disdain for paperwork. A candidate learns that filling out almost useless forms is more important that actually doing something good that helps their community.

To serve the boy in his adult future, devaluing bureaucracy is a good thing. To build good character in our men, Eagle projects do little.

 

***

It will never happen, but can you imagine an Eagle Vigil?

Go to a solitary location and camp alone for 5 days.

Take food for 3 days. No electronics.

 

Study the flames of your campfire and contemplate your future. Write a five year plan for:

1- How are you going to improve yourself and become more self-reliant?

2- What are you gong to do to help your family?

3- Where do you want to go with your faith?

 

Find 5 types of plants that you are unfamiliar with. Identify them when you return.

Build a survival shelter. Sleep your last night in that shelter using only materials and bedding that you accrued from the woods.

Supplement your food with edible plants and protein you acquire from nature.

***

 

That's the type of experience that a young man can look back upon and use to support his future character.

I like it. At the very least it would force scouts into the out-of-doors and be a real test of the skills they picked up along their journey. I would include in the report a reflection on their Scouting journey up to this point; what they learned, how it was used and how it will be used in their 5 -year plan.

 

Another thought... why for only Eagle? Why not have the scout build up to this from 1st class. A one-nighter for FC, 2-nighter for Star, etc...

Again, BSA has no ban on sheath knives. But some jurisdictions do ban them.

And some troops ban them.

pocket knives are broken before it comes out of its brand new package. folders that is. SAK does serve its purpose, but you can't really baton with it.

 

why is BSA scared of fixed blade? it just looks homicidal?

 

we teach our boys how to build fires using woods. most of us do not carry saw or ax. but if someone had becker BK-2 or BK-9... who would ever need an axe or a saw?

 

they are tools. we teach our boys to use them as tools, not as an weapon. less chance of cutting their fingers and getting their job done. face the reality. stop feeling intimidated. let liberals go camp at LA and go to 5 start restaurant for their evening snack.

The ban on sheath knives or other decisions which potentially take away the outdoor adventure are not liberal nor conservative in nature. Both sides of the spectrum have been complicit in these decisions and scouters on both sides lament them as well.

The key word here to me has always been "carry". There are a lot of things kids can't/shouldn't carry, and yet we still let them use them. Axes and hatchets for example. Should the BSA ban axes and hatchets because kids could hurt themselves with them? I personally think a hatchet is more dangerous than a fixed blade knife, but even still I wouldn't advocate banning hatchets. I'm all for learning how to use tools safely, including fixed blade knives, hatchets, etc.

 

Here's how I'd approach it. Start with introducing fixed blades as a camp tool, not as a carry item. If you jump in hoping to put a sheath on every kid's belt, you'll get a lot more resistance. Suggest putting a couple of fixed blade knives in the troop tool kit with axes and hatchets, and teach kids how to baton kindling with a knife. Which, you can explain to the kids and other adults, is FAR safer than chopping up kindling with a hatchet. You can't cut wood down to kindling with a hatchet without putting your hands at risk. Well, you can, but it's a little tricky. Far more tricky than batoning.

 

But no one can argue with batoning being safer than hatchet chopping kindling. It's safer, much safer I think, than having to hold the wood with your hand and tapping a hatchet into it. Even worse when you have a kid try taking a swing at a piece of wood while they're holding it up with their hand.

While I agree with your general sentiment, I myself carry and use a small birch handle mora sheath knife. However, I disagree with your analysis regarding the safety of using a hatchet to split wood to kindling size. Done properly, the hatchet blade is never out of contact with the wood. There are a few methods which can be employed to accomplish this. The most obvious is to use the hachet in the same way some use their knife to "baton". There are other methods as well. But regardless of which method is used, by maintaining contact between the blade and wood, safety is not compromised any more than with a sheath knife. It is also useful to know how to split wood without either a knife or axe/hatchet using a small saw. Even more useful is learning how to find and collect wood which needs little/no prep to begin with so no tools are necessary. The latter of all these skills is often the most difficult to attain albeit the most useful IMO.