Khaliela

I think the biggest problem is that we have taken learning out of schools and replaced it by activities. They want kids to be proficient in more things sooner, as a result they don't have time to actually teach something or take the time to make sure the kid learned it.

Kids don't garden at home anymore, so all our schools include a garden that the students are required to work in an hour a week.

When I was in high school I had genetics and worked on Mendelsohn's Peas. (I hope I've got that spelled right.) My own kids had to cover genetics in 5th grade and were covering the same topics I did in high school, but the teacher didn't have time to explain it because they also had to work in the garden, and run the schools recycling project, put together a program at the local community center, and visit the elderly in the nursing home. As a result the kids learn that you do just enough to get by, then jump to the next pressing thing.

I'm going to suggest something else in addition. And college students need to direct their efforts at themselves as well. I have noticed, over the last 20 years or so, what seems to be not only a tendency of students to feel freer to take shortcuts or cheat, but also for their peers to condone it (I guess the two things go hand-in-hand).

 

Now, I'm not sure what students can do to address this other than to think hard about their own ethical judgment, but one thing they could do for everyone else is to take a serious look and see if there really is a problem or not. And if there is, does it result from greater technical ability (smart phones, etc.) or do new social activities influence the way they view morality (being able to vote multiple times for American Idol, for example, if you're willing to pay)?

 

This is less 'substantial' than attacking obesity, and I think that is a great idea as well. But this is, I think, more intellectually-challenging, and if they can accomplish no more than to cause everyone to think more seriously about it, it will have been a positive contribution.

 

IMHO

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders, but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders, but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.

It depends entirely on where you are camping. If you are camping in a developed campground in a state or national park, or even some of the NFS camp grounds, then it doesn't matter what you use. Feel free to smell as fruity as you like because the kid in the next campsite who fell asleep with marshmallow in his hair and evidence of s'mores on his face is going to be far more tantalizing than any smell your shampoo gives off.

If you are using undeveloped campsites on state, federal, or BLM land, it probably doesn't matter much there either as long as you are using the usual bear precautions and not storing anything "smelly" near where you sleep.

If you are in the backcountry, bears probably won't be accustomed to the smell of people anyway, so shampoo shouldn't be on the menu regardless of what it smells like. If you are backcountry hiking in a wilderness area or in remote areas of our National Parks, check with the local backcountry office to see what if any recommendation they have. Some only allow biodegradable camp soap, others don't allow soap in the water at all, in which case, practice making your braids, or buns now.

Re: other women's Hygiene. If you are menstruating and you are in a "pack-it-in pack-it-out" area, make sure you have LOTS of plastic baggies. If you are in the Backcountry or in an area where bears are making a nuisance of themselves, make sure your companions know you are on the rag and have your pack hung far away for everyone else's.

Summer camp this year sucked, but being in council we expected that.

 

By the time they rolled around to our week many of the staff members had already quit. They were down to just 3 life guards so swim checks took forever and all the classes were moved around to accommodate the missing staff.

 

We didn't get the Camp T-shirts we ordered and the camp said they have no record of the order, so we have to send someone to the council office to find out what happened.

 

The main topic of discussion among the boys was how FAT the camp staff were, several were over 300 pounds. (We thought BSA had height/weight limits????) They couldn't walk 100 yards w/o huffing and puffing. Many rode ATV's to their program areas so they wouldn't have to walk.

 

The part that really sucked was that due to this lovely article (http://dnews.com/local/article_8321dd16-cfda-5446-a291-9906288bfb40.html) which states which troops in our district are disbanding over the gay vote and includes a blurd stating that our troop is open to everyone, we were labeled the "HOMO TROOP" and our boys were not allowed to use the shower house because the good christian troops didn't want their boys in contact with our boys in an area where their wouldn't be adult supervision. But, Hey--we've got troops in our council that still don't allow blacks, so could we really expect less?

The Aryan Nation is a white, Christian, separatist religious organization that was based in Hayden Lake, Idaho and is part of the Christian Identity organization; Church of Jesus Christ–Christian. The compound was dismantled and so was the original church they preached in, but more churches continue to spring up around the area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_Nation

Recently, an avowed white supremacist ran for sheriff in Bonner County, Idaho; That same year another ran for sheriff in Latah County, Idaho.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/19/shaun-winkler-white-supremacist-kkk-sheriff-idaho_n_1365677.html

After the Aryan compound was torn down we had an influx of Klan members who moved to the area. Their members and remaining members of the Aryan's protested a program for 5th graders on Martin Luther King, Jr. in Coeur d'Alene. They arrived waving signs and shouting "white power" at cars.

(http://www.kxly.com/news/KKK-Group-Hit-With-Counter-Protest/-/101270/9224522/-/110mig2z/-/index.html)

In Moscow, Idaho, Pastor Douglas Wilson preaches that all social ills will be solved if people of color would return to their rightful place as servants and argues that slavery should be legal. His most controversial work is his pamphlet Southern Slavery, As It Was. He is the Director of New St. Andrews College, and is associated with several private Christian schools at the elementary and secondary level.

http://www.nsa.edu/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Wilson_(theologian)

All of these groups and their associated churches have chartered scouts units in my council. Racism is still very alive in our country; pretending it doesn't exist and claiming that there still aren't plenty of churches out their who preach this type of Hate isn't going to make the world a better place.

Summer camp this year sucked, but being in council we expected that.

By the time they rolled around to our week many of the staff members had already quit. They were down to just 3 life guards so swim checks took forever and all the classes were moved around to accommodate the missing staff.

We didn't get the Camp T-shirts we ordered and the camp said they have no record of the order, so we have to send someone to the council office to find out what happened.

The main topic of discussion among the boys was how FAT the camp staff were, several were over 300 pounds. (We thought BSA had height/weight limits????) They couldn't walk 100 yards w/o huffing and puffing. Many rode ATV's to their program areas so they wouldn't have to walk.

The part that really sucked was that due to this lovely article (http://dnews.com/local/article_8321dd16-cfda-5446-a291-9906288bfb40.html) which states which troops in our district are disbanding over the gay vote and includes a blurd stating that our troop is open to everyone, we were labeled the "HOMO TROOP" and our boys were not allowed to use the shower house because the good christian troops didn't want their boys in contact with our boys in an area where their wouldn't be adult supervision. But, Hey--we've got troops in our council that still don't allow blacks, so could we really expect less?

I wouldn't worry about it. A boy doesn't need to advance in rank in order to be in Scouts. When he is 11 or in the 6th grade he can join Boy Scouts, he doesn't need to earn the Arrow of Light.

When he is a Boy Scout he won't need to earn rank advancements in order to attend meetings or hang out with the other guys. He can still have an enjoyable experience sans all the do-dads.

I've worked as Camp Staff, and peen to a number of camps around the Northwest; most places don't even read them. Check to see the boys names match the roster and that's it. If he's worried about HIPPA have him put it in the middle of the pile, it will come back in the middle of the pile and no one will have seen or read, (or remotely cared about) his information.

I would recommend camping in the off season, you are more likely to get your reservations then. National Parks are Grand Central Station all summer long, so you will have a better experience in the off season too.

Splitting the pack and troop so the older boys get some backpacking experience is a good idea too. Depending on how many boys you have per patrol you might look into getting two permits, each for a different trail in the backcountry; most places only allow 8 to 11 people on a Backcountry permit anyway. The most important thing is to book as early as you can, otherwise your permits could end up being at opposite ends of the park making logistics a nightmare.

Based on how well the boys tend to do dishes when they are in a hurry and want to get on to the next thing, the sanitizing step seems like a really good idea. Backpackers tend to lick their dishes clean and maybe rinse their dishes and take them home to wash. I think you could mix up the sanitizing solution in a spray bottle and spritz it on and let air dry as a stop gap measure but then you are carrying a spray bottle with solution. of course it could be a 1 oz spray bottle, just enough to cover your bowl/pot a couple times. Does the sanitizing tablets eat the guts out of spray bottles so they stop spraying like bleach solution does?

(Check your local area for regulations, some areas do not allow soap, even the biodegradable camp kind.)

Me too!

I need some usable skits/role-plays/games that communicate simple leadership concepts that boys can learn and apply.

 

Here's a link to JLT that I'm trying to distill:

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/ILST%20FINALS%202011%20-%20Item%20Number%20511-016.pdf

What's wrong with an old-fashioned, hand-written, heart-felt thank-you note?

He tore down an old fence and built a new one for the library, then had to pour a concrete pad to build a new shed for the library as well. The local sawmill donated all the lumber he needed. A cement contractor donated the cement and came out to teach him how to pour it and put in the J bolts. Two other contractors helped him build the shed. My carpentry skills are marginal at best so if it weren't for all the help he would have been building a shed from one of the kits you can order at the hardware store.

Everything looks great and the library is tickled. (He still needs to build a gate for the fence and get it stained, but you know how boy-led project run. Because it can take 6 or more months for his Eagle Application, which might not even be approved, he needs to be getting Thank You's out now.

This thread has irritated me since it started, there has been a lot of guessing about why scouts is becoming prissy and I have two points on the matter:

 

1) MONEY!! Your council and national want dues $; to do that they need to increase membership and retain already enrolled members. That means they are recruiting and keeping kids that don't want squat to do with the outdoors.

 

2) MANLY??? Seriously???? We are a “prissy†troop according to the local Scouters. Some of our boys even shave their legs, its a great joke while on an outing to see how has smoother legs, them or me (there are times with they have won!)

 

Our “prissy†troop did a 30 mile backpacking trip in the Grand Canyon in March, but that wasn't considered “manly†because we didn't go 50 miles. Our “prissy†troop is having their 50 miler in July, but it isn't manly either because we are canoeing, not backpacking. The boys in our “prissy†troop who shave their legs are either on the swim team or cyclist; one pair and their father even complete all 410 miles of the GOBA (Great Ohio Bicycle Adventure) every summer. Our “prissy†boys can cook their own meals and don't need mommy to do it for them. And yes, we are fastidious about uniforming!

 

So what do the “manly†troops in our area do??? They attend summer camp and Fall Camp O'ree; occasionally Klondike, but outside of that, not much. When they camp they show up with ATV's so their boys won't actually have to walk anywhere; they can't run a camp stove, dutch oven, or cook over an open flame; and I kid you not, I've seen Scout Masters show up at Camp O'ree with boxes of Pizza for dinner because cooking is women work. Two years ago my mom fined one of the “manly†troops $17,000 for destruction of property and failure to comply with park rules and regulations while camping at a CORP of Engineers property. These guys show up with shirts unbuttoned, tails untucked, and basically look like crap.

 

I think we need to redefine “manly.†There is no reason your Scout Uniform shouldn't be given the same care as a military uniform. Failure to comply with local, state, or federal rules and regulations is never "manly;" At best its ignorant, but more likely its just belligerent!

If the boys choose pizza because they don't know how to cook or because cooking is "women's work" there is a problem. The requirements for rank advancement state that the boys must cook their meals. I won't sign off that requirement for any boy who says he met the requirement by having pizza delivered.

This thread has irritated me since it started, there has been a lot of guessing about why scouts is becoming prissy and I have two points on the matter:

 

1) MONEY!! Your council and national want dues $; to do that they need to increase membership and retain already enrolled members. That means they are recruiting and keeping kids that don't want squat to do with the outdoors.

 

2) MANLY??? Seriously???? We are a “prissy†troop according to the local Scouters. Some of our boys even shave their legs, its a great joke while on an outing to see how has smoother legs, them or me (there are times with they have won!)

 

Our “prissy†troop did a 30 mile backpacking trip in the Grand Canyon in March, but that wasn't considered “manly†because we didn't go 50 miles. Our “prissy†troop is having their 50 miler in July, but it isn't manly either because we are canoeing, not backpacking. The boys in our “prissy†troop who shave their legs are either on the swim team or cyclist; one pair and their father even complete all 410 miles of the GOBA (Great Ohio Bicycle Adventure) every summer. Our “prissy†boys can cook their own meals and don't need mommy to do it for them. And yes, we are fastidious about uniforming!

 

So what do the “manly†troops in our area do??? They attend summer camp and Fall Camp O'ree; occasionally Klondike, but outside of that, not much. When they camp they show up with ATV's so their boys won't actually have to walk anywhere; they can't run a camp stove, dutch oven, or cook over an open flame; and I kid you not, I've seen Scout Masters show up at Camp O'ree with boxes of Pizza for dinner because cooking is women work. Two years ago my mom fined one of the “manly†troops $17,000 for destruction of property and failure to comply with park rules and regulations while camping at a CORP of Engineers property. These guys show up with shirts unbuttoned, tails untucked, and basically look like crap.

 

I think we need to redefine “manly.†There is no reason your Scout Uniform shouldn't be given the same care as a military uniform. Failure to comply with local, state, or federal rules and regulations is never "manly;" At best its ignorant, but more likely its just belligerent!

The Scouts that used ATV’s to destroy waterfowl nesting habitat should have been kicked out; the unit should have been disbanded. Instead they got funds to help pay the fines (and legal fees because they were dumb enough to contest them) all because council didn’t want to lose numbers!

This should not be the image of Scouting; unfortunately, this is what a “manly†unit is. Complete disregard for the law, the environment, personal safety, and the safety of others is the basis anarchy; John Wayne is not welcome here.

KDD step back relax....It will happen when it does....Your scout is what 11????? Generally our boys don't get to take swimming till their third trip to summer camp???? So they are 13 or so.

I know this is off topic, but around here swimming is considered a great 1st year MB. Lifesaving is generally for older scouts. Where are camping???

Great idea. Just make sure it is not a Scouting event and have an open bar. It will be a smashing success.

I guess one boy just has to stay home. Not one of 19 scouts slept in the tents the other week, they all slept outside, by choice. I have not seen any National rule on two to tent either. I think the camp may have a rule that if you have 13 scouts they are not going to provide your troop with 13 tents. Sometimes adults just can't think rationally, happens to scouts also. So what is this adults plan ? Place the odd man out in a tent with an adult ? Violate the 30 square foot requirement and shove three in a tent ? Moron. Get him out of your troop and don't waste any more of your time with him.

Last year at Melita we used our backpacking tents because their camp does not supply tents. Our tents are 3.5X6 and sleeps 2 if they put their gear under the rain fly. Camp Staff told us if we put up a dining fly all would be well, so that's what we did.

Cots??? Scouts do not use cots. LOL! (At least not in our troop.)

This thread has irritated me since it started, there has been a lot of guessing about why scouts is becoming prissy and I have two points on the matter:

 

1) MONEY!! Your council and national want dues $; to do that they need to increase membership and retain already enrolled members. That means they are recruiting and keeping kids that don't want squat to do with the outdoors.

 

2) MANLY??? Seriously???? We are a “prissy†troop according to the local Scouters. Some of our boys even shave their legs, its a great joke while on an outing to see how has smoother legs, them or me (there are times with they have won!)

 

Our “prissy†troop did a 30 mile backpacking trip in the Grand Canyon in March, but that wasn't considered “manly†because we didn't go 50 miles. Our “prissy†troop is having their 50 miler in July, but it isn't manly either because we are canoeing, not backpacking. The boys in our “prissy†troop who shave their legs are either on the swim team or cyclist; one pair and their father even complete all 410 miles of the GOBA (Great Ohio Bicycle Adventure) every summer. Our “prissy†boys can cook their own meals and don't need mommy to do it for them. And yes, we are fastidious about uniforming!

 

So what do the “manly†troops in our area do??? They attend summer camp and Fall Camp O'ree; occasionally Klondike, but outside of that, not much. When they camp they show up with ATV's so their boys won't actually have to walk anywhere; they can't run a camp stove, dutch oven, or cook over an open flame; and I kid you not, I've seen Scout Masters show up at Camp O'ree with boxes of Pizza for dinner because cooking is women work. Two years ago my mom fined one of the “manly†troops $17,000 for destruction of property and failure to comply with park rules and regulations while camping at a CORP of Engineers property. These guys show up with shirts unbuttoned, tails untucked, and basically look like crap.

 

I think we need to redefine “manly.†There is no reason your Scout Uniform shouldn't be given the same care as a military uniform. Failure to comply with local, state, or federal rules and regulations is never "manly;" At best its ignorant, but more likely its just belligerent!

Is shooting road signs full of holes chivalrous? I don't think so. Is using your ATV to tear up recently restored habitat and destroying a waterfowl nesting area chivalrous? I'm still not buying it.

My son has received a tremendous amount of help in both time and donations while working on his Eagle Project. (Crossing my fingers and hoping it will be complete this weekend.) What are some appropriate “thank you†gift ideas for those who have gone the extra mile?

We had one company donate all the lumber for the project. Another donated the concrete and even came out and helped him pour it. Somehow a thank you note just doesn’t seem like enough.

What about hosting a “Thank You Event?â€Â

I'd appreciate any ideas.

When I was a CM my rule was that the boys in the most complete uniform got to do the flag ceremony. After that it was a competition to be the best dressed.

Question: are your adults wearing their uniforms? If not you may have found your problem. If the leaders wear the uniform without complaint so will the boys. I've even had cubs insist on wearing their uniforms to school for picture day. LOL!

Why not throw 3 boys in one tent? If your camp uses the big green canvas tents there is plent of room and I'm sure you've got a set of boys who would be happy to be the Three Musketeers!

I guess one boy just has to stay home. Not one of 19 scouts slept in the tents the other week, they all slept outside, by choice. I have not seen any National rule on two to tent either. I think the camp may have a rule that if you have 13 scouts they are not going to provide your troop with 13 tents. Sometimes adults just can't think rationally, happens to scouts also. So what is this adults plan ? Place the odd man out in a tent with an adult ? Violate the 30 square foot requirement and shove three in a tent ? Moron. Get him out of your troop and don't waste any more of your time with him.

You're right that rain will not melt the Scouts. Here is a question: Do you really want to cater to families who are fair weather only Scouters?

We camp in the rain. We camp in the snow. (We prefer camping in the snow!) If you have a good attitude, the boys will be fine; attitude is contagious. The big problem here is that you have to camp with parents since you've got cubs and their attitudes can be less than stellar. I say go ahead and camp and let the families weed themselves out.

Re: Canceling

Make sure the people in charge of the camp out know if it's candled. Once upon a time our pack canceled a camp out because of sever thunder and lightening. Three of us had already left to start setting up the group camping facility and put up signs, etc. It wasn't until about 8 PM when absolutely no one else was their that we drove to the nearest town to get cell service and found out it was canceled. Apparently they had someone at the Church sending everyone home, but never bothered to drive up to the campsite to tell the leaders it was off.

I have seen cub scout lions for 5 year olds on this site a few times. Is this a BSA program or is it just being tested in a few places? My youngest son is only five but he wants to start cub scouts now after watching his older brothers get to do everything.

 

IMHO, this is a horrible idea. Just too young.