Khaliela

Serendipity.

 

Eagle Courts of Honor are not a BSA-scripted ceremony; they're whatever you make them and should reflect the things your son values; if that's a druid prayer, that's a druid prayer. If the CO is imposing some kind of rule they have, fine, do it at the closest park and invite the people who aren't morons (less meatballs in your budget, that way, too )

PERDIDOCHAS: Looks like a National thing; glossy pictures and a list of all the approved openings, prayers, closings, and ceremony scripts. It even provides a list of what types of pictures are acceptable to show in the "slide show." Ironically, pictures of the scout involved in scouting activities are not included. You are supposed to have majestic mountain scenes, pictures of eagles, and of course, pictures of the council properties.

I'm for keeping the merit badge focus; high adventure can happen the other 11 months of the year. We've taken the boys Kayaking and white water rafting; gone caving; taken week long backpacking trips; gone to ropes courses and used zip lines; all outside of the summer camp experience. We tell our boys that camp is for merit badges, the rest of the year is for fun!

Our council as a big camp at over 5k acres, but the older scouts were getting tired of it and by older I mean 14. The heat the past two summer didn't help. This year we went out of council to a another much smaller dining hall option camp, but was not enough to attract the older scouts. I like the option of going to a different camp each year to keep it fresh even if it means some travel. I don't understand all the details but apparently the OA is requiring us to come back to council camp next year. So looks like we are limited to every other year. They may have valid reasons for their policy, just don't know what they are. Does OA limit anyone else's options ?

It was recommended to me by another crew advisor who I met at an Area Venturing Officer's Association meeting. At the time I was getting a lot of cross-talk of how things were to be done between my crew and my troop. I've been asked to open meetings with prayer a lot. I don't think it was because I always matched the religion of the folks who asked me. I'd like to think it was because the folks knew I had the best interests of everyone present at heart. And honestly, love makes up for a whole lot of unorthodoxy. So if there's someone like that who, although likely to step on some of your "hot buttons", you feel has their heart in the right place, ask them. If not, I like s99's advice. Hold it someplace where sacred cows aren't offended.

It was recommended to me by another crew advisor who I met at an Area Venturing Officer's Association meeting. At the time I was getting a lot of cross-talk of how things were to be done between my crew and my troop. I've been asked to open meetings with prayer a lot. I don't think it was because I always matched the religion of the folks who asked me. I'd like to think it was because the folks knew I had the best interests of everyone present at heart. And honestly, love makes up for a whole lot of unorthodoxy. So if there's someone like that who, although likely to step on some of your "hot buttons", you feel has their heart in the right place, ask them. If not, I like s99's advice. Hold it someplace where sacred cows aren't offended.

Serendipity.

 

Eagle Courts of Honor are not a BSA-scripted ceremony; they're whatever you make them and should reflect the things your son values; if that's a druid prayer, that's a druid prayer. If the CO is imposing some kind of rule they have, fine, do it at the closest park and invite the people who aren't morons (less meatballs in your budget, that way, too )

 

 

Most of our places we camp involve driving an interstate highway to get to a 2 lane hiway, then to a gravel road with sharp turns and then some mud if lucky some cinders. Depending on weather that may be dry and nice or muddy and yucky.

 

 

Wow I feel Deprived now, Since Every place we go we have to stay on the Paved parking Areas..and Our State Parks don't afford Off Roading Experience. Granted Texas does have a few potholes

 

You should get off the beaten path with your scouts more. Our state parks are mostly big RV parking lots, so we don't take the scouts to those except way once in a while. I don't like camping in a big gravel camping area with the sound of generators all around.

 

Dispersed camping areas, national parks, even private land around someone's remote cabin can make for some great scout outings. Most of our forest service roads have no pavement, I didn't think TX had paved over everything!?

Standard rule of thumb here is: The more remote the area the more likely you are to encounter weird people. That could be the happy-naked-hiking-granola or it could be the scary-gun toting-white supremacists with more ammunition slug across his chest that I would shoot in 10 years.

When it comes to grizzlies vs naked hikers; I've encountered both and the naked hikers are far more friendly. (Though the bear was at a distance and only happened once so it's not an adequate sample.) As for naked scouters, I'm the only one I've ever met . . . pitty.

Out of curiosity how did everyone find Scouter.com? Were you looking for something specific or was it serendipity?

I was looking for a non-sectarian prayer for my son's Eagle Court of Honor because we are not permitted to use our own prayers. (Apparently you have to use an official BSA sanctioned prayer.) I googled “Scouts+Nonsectarian†and ended up with a thread in the Issues & Politics area. (Not quite what I was after, LOL!)

PS

We still haven't come up with a prayer that we like, so I'm open for suggestions...

 

 

Most of our places we camp involve driving an interstate highway to get to a 2 lane hiway, then to a gravel road with sharp turns and then some mud if lucky some cinders. Depending on weather that may be dry and nice or muddy and yucky.

 

 

Wow I feel Deprived now, Since Every place we go we have to stay on the Paved parking Areas..and Our State Parks don't afford Off Roading Experience. Granted Texas does have a few potholes

 

You should get off the beaten path with your scouts more. Our state parks are mostly big RV parking lots, so we don't take the scouts to those except way once in a while. I don't like camping in a big gravel camping area with the sound of generators all around.

 

Dispersed camping areas, national parks, even private land around someone's remote cabin can make for some great scout outings. Most of our forest service roads have no pavement, I didn't think TX had paved over everything!?

As for dispersed camping, around here the National Forest provides plenty of opportunities, so does the Idaho Department of Lands. You can also get a pass to camp on BLM Lands. If you're willing to do community service and can make friends with the right people you can camp on property owned by the Department of Fish & Wildlife or the CORE. And if you're up for a walk and aren't too worried about possible nudity there are plenty of Wilderness areas to choose from.

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders' date=' but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.[/quote']

 

Less than 2 hours, actually. Anyone that says they don't have 1.5 hours for 3 training modules is either the President of the US or a liar, anyone that won't didn't want to go in the first place.

KDD--Our community does not have Police or Fire. (Population is 738 people, so there isn't a tax base to support those services.) The Sheriffs office responds out of the County seat (45 min response time) and if you have a fire you'd better call the forest service because they will respond if it's brush/grass/trees; otherwise you'd better have insurance.

 

I work 75 miles from home--we have better internet here. (Unfortunately it's in the opposite direction from the Council Service Center The council covers are area that is 350 miles long by 420 miles wide.) I check the forums when I'm stuck on hold on the phone and can't start another task. I don't have internet at home; seems like a waste of money.

 

Just remember that this is large and very diverse country. In some areas you drive 60 miles and find yourself in another state; around here you drive 60 miles just to get your groceries.

 

SCOUTER99; Post office is only open from 10 AM to 2 PM Monday thru Friday; no Saturday service. If you need something shipped it needs to come FedEx or UPS, otherwise you won't get it unless you arrange to take day off work. Council does mail things, but won't pay for FedEx. It took 3 weeks for me to arrange a day off to pick up my packet for Wood Badge because they sent it in a packet that was too big to fit in the mail box.

Why are you punishing the boys because of an issue with your council???

 

If the council does not train it's MB Counselors properly and ensure that the requirements are fulfilled at camp the backlash should be directed at the Council and the Camp Director, not the boy. By holding the boy accountable and doing nothing about the poor quality of MB Counselors at Camp you are only perpetuating they system.

 

I spent many hours with a lad working on the Forestry MB at camp this summer because the camp staff in charge of nature couldn't identify 5 trees, let alone 15 & know their uses! And the kid couldn't identify a tree based off just a wood sample either. That MB is complete only because I spent 6 hours working with the boy. Every kid in the class got a complete even though some of them had field notebooks that contained 5 samples of the SAME Tree. The issue is not the boys slacking off; the issue is that council doesn't hire people with knowledge in the area they are expected to work in.

I'm voting crazy.

 

A passenger bus cannot ford a river of make it over "kelly-humps." In fact it can't go a lot of places. Do you really want to limit the boys scouting experience to places with pavement because that's only as far as the bus can go?

If you want to do your camping on pavement so be it; but just because it's dirt doesn't mean it isn't a road.

I'm voting crazy.

A passenger bus cannot ford a river of make it over "kelly-humps." In fact it can't go a lot of places. Do you really want to limit the boys scouting experience to places with pavement because that's only as far as the bus can go?

Why are you punishing the boys because of an issue with your council???

 

If the council does not train it's MB Counselors properly and ensure that the requirements are fulfilled at camp the backlash should be directed at the Council and the Camp Director, not the boy. By holding the boy accountable and doing nothing about the poor quality of MB Counselors at Camp you are only perpetuating they system.

 

I spent many hours with a lad working on the Forestry MB at camp this summer because the camp staff in charge of nature couldn't identify 5 trees, let alone 15 & know their uses! And the kid couldn't identify a tree based off just a wood sample either. That MB is complete only because I spent 6 hours working with the boy. Every kid in the class got a complete even though some of them had field notebooks that contained 5 samples of the SAME Tree. The issue is not the boys slacking off; the issue is that council doesn't hire people with knowledge in the area they are expected to work in.

QWAZSE--While I agree that it is important for the boys to actually learn the skills required; I think denying the blue card w/o going after the inept counselor is unreasonable. If you are going to deny the blue card, then you must also go after the person who signed it complete. I was just trying to point out that the lack of learning is not always the boys fault; sometimes you just get a poor teacher.

SCOUTER99--The boys who filled the book with 5 samples of the same tree didn't know any better. They got the samples from 5 different trees; it was just the same species and because the instruction was so poor they didn't know any better. They had a White Fir labeled as a white fir, and also labeled as a Grand Fir (both correct names for the same tree); they also had a dead white fir labeled as a Tamarack (Western Larch) because it was orange and all they knew of Tamarack was that it is the only conifer in the area to turn orange and loose it's needles in the fall; they also had it labeled as a Douglas fir because they found one whose needles didn't lay completely flat; then they had the cone labeled as coming from a Spruce, no idea how they came up with that. The boys had NO IDEA that they were all the same species and neither did the MBC! You can't fault a boy for not knowing what he wasn't taught.

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders' date=' but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.[/quote']

 

Less than 2 hours, actually. Anyone that says they don't have 1.5 hours for 3 training modules is either the President of the US or a liar, anyone that won't didn't want to go in the first place.

The Library and City Hall both have dial-up.

The Council Service Center is 99.8 miles away.

What part of RURAL didn't you understand?

Why are you punishing the boys because of an issue with your council???

If the council does not train it's MB Counselors properly and ensure that the requirements are fulfilled at camp the backlash should be directed at the Council and the Camp Director, not the boy. By holding the boy accountable and doing nothing about the poor quality of MB Counselors at Camp you are only perpetuating they system.

I spent many hours with a lad working on the Forestry MB at camp this summer because the camp staff in charge of nature couldn't identify 5 trees, let alone 15 & know their uses! And the kid couldn't identify a tree based off just a wood sample either. That MB is complete only because I spent 6 hours working with the boy. Every kid in the class got a complete even though some of them had field notebooks that contained 5 samples of the SAME Tree. The issue is not the boys slacking off; the issue is that council doesn't hire people with knowledge in the area they are expected to work in.

The REASON that Council can even lose things is the primitive paper process. We turn all paper to council in electronically via PDF and keep a copy on our system. I see zero reason to be storing carbonless paper for BSA. An online system would be even better. They can have an offsite backup. We could archive a PDF of everyone in the Unit annually.

 

Paper to sit on someone's desk at Council for months on end it stupid.

Do I like national? NO

Do I like my council? Nope

Do I like my Unit? Yep.

You can run a good program for the boys; you can make it better by ignoring council and striving to achieve what Baden Powell had intended.

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders' date=' but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.[/quote']

 

Less than 2 hours, actually. Anyone that says they don't have 1.5 hours for 3 training modules is either the President of the US or a liar, anyone that won't didn't want to go in the first place.

Are you kidding; 1.5 hours for training??? I live in a rural area we do not have high-speed internet; last time I took youth protection it took 2.5 hours, then timed out. I tried again the next day and was able to complete in a mere 3 hours that day. We've had some leaders that have spent several hours a night for a period of weeks trying to get youth protection.

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders, but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.

Why shouldn't we allow parents to come to events? If we excluded them they may never see their kids. Just look at a typical week for a 13 year old during the school year.

6:30 AM Weight Room Opens for Jocks Lifting

7:30 AM Study Hall opens for Jocks Study Hall

8:10 AM School starts

3:10 PM School Dismissed

3:15 PM to 6 PM After school events (Music, Sports, Drama, etc.)

7:00 PM to 8:30 PM Scouts/4-H/Private Lessons/(Youth Group for Christians), etc depending on the night

9:00 PM to 10:00 PM Homework

Then you add weekends:

1 Weekend a month for 4-H/Youth Group/any other event

1 Weekend a month for Scouts events

1 weekend a month for Sporting events

1 weekend a month to keep your sanity

Many families have multiple kids all running in different directions causing even more chaos in the schedule.

Makes absolutely no sense to be running parents off by expecting them to have several hours of training (Think safe swim; safety afloat; hazardous weather, etc) just because they want to spend time with their kid.

I watched the video and saw very little information on a unit level position.

I fully understand the need for a Unit Level Position though. When I was a Den Leader with the Catholic Pack all the boys were required to earn the Light of Christ and Parvuli De. As soon as I was CM I made of point of allowing each boy to earn the Religious emblem of THEIR faith (provided an emblem actually exists for their faith), which wasn't always the Catholic one. The Protestants had "God and Me" or "God and Family" and the Mormons had "Faith in God." In addition there are a number of religious emblems for Adults.; while CM I was able to award 3 Bronze Pelicans and one St. George to some of the leaders, committee members, etc, in addition to had to keep up on the paper work for the Catholic Quality Unit (you get a cool Gold Flag!) I am currently in the process of putting together an application for our CC for the Torch AWARD (Methodist).

Personally, I don’t think promoting existing emblems is going to achieve the goal of having more boys earn emblems. If National wants more Scouts to earn religious emblems why not allow more religions to offer emblems to the Scouts??? I know there is no emblem for my faith. Our national organization (Covenant of the Goddess) has submitted an application for a Heart and Crescent award for youth of our faith, but National repeatedly refuses to accept it as an award. If scouting is truly going to be non-sectarian, then they need to be willing allow emblems for ALL FAITHS.

The joy of the paper blue card; and every other card we give a boy, is that when council looses all record that it exist the boy can always bring in HIS copy!

This happens every year--Someone is turning in paperwork for their Eagle and council says something ridiculous like, "Oh you never earned the tenderfoot rank, therefore you are not eligible for Eagle." OR "Oh, since joining Scouts 4 years ago you only earned 19 Merit Badges, so you're not eligible for Eagle."

The Boy has his copy; the troop has it's copy (our troop actually makes a copy BEFORE turning it in to council); the MB Councilor has their copy; but council somehow doesn't have a copy . . . That's where all those cards come in OH SO HANDY.

Troop Motto-- HYDRATE OR DIE!

Seems to work for us, no color coding necessary.

As a former DE for five years in the same council and for the same two districts I can tell you that the re-shifting of priorities by National for the DE has led many of the good ones to abandon ship and take on a more regular job with realistic and obtainable goals, less hours, and better pay. The National BSA is currently like a boat heading up the river without a paddle or direction which will end up sinking along the way. The animosity between professional scouters and the volunteers continues to get worse and worse and many unit leaders now just ignore council and FOS campaigns. When will they ever learn you can't beat your volunteers into submission. Many of the DE's they are hiring these days have had fairly unsuccessful careers, little commitment to making the scouting program successful in their districts, and their only goal is to get promoted to a position at National ASAP.

1st DE was a good guy and worked hard to include everyone on information about changes in policy, events, you name it. He left for a "real" job where he would actually be able to see his family (as luck would have it, he produced two daughters, not son's and BSA kept him away from all their events.)

2nd DE was also really good and working with everyone IMO; unfortunately she was a "she." The district committee and camping committee wouldn't allow her to attend any of the meetings which made it very hard to do her job. The good old boys may not have liked her, but the rest of us volunteers did.

3rd DE was one of the "good old boys." He would only give information about district events, policy changes, etc to certain units whose leaders were part of the club. Left the rest of us in the dark on most things and treated BSA like his private playground. (This guy even wanted to eliminate the Med Shack at camp, in place of moving the building to the top of the property to be used as a warming hut for District committee snowmobile retreats in the winter months.)

4th DE The district committee decided we didn't need a DE and told council that, so we ended up with one of the secretaries from their office who doesn't actually do any DE duties; she's lets the district committee pretty much do what ever they want, doesn't attend any district meetings, nothing. She's just a place to drop off forms.

I think the biggest problem is that we have taken learning out of schools and replaced it by activities. They want kids to be proficient in more things sooner, as a result they don't have time to actually teach something or take the time to make sure the kid learned it.

 

Kids don't garden at home anymore, so all our schools include a garden that the students are required to work in an hour a week.

 

When I was in high school I had genetics and worked on Mendelsohn's Peas. (I hope I've got that spelled right.) My own kids had to cover genetics in 5th grade and were covering the same topics I did in high school, but the teacher didn't have time to explain it because they also had to work in the garden, and run the schools recycling project, put together a program at the local community center, and visit the elderly in the nursing home. As a result the kids learn that you do just enough to get by, then jump to the next pressing thing.