OldGreyEagle

Just for the record, Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin et al were the Rat Pack, then along came Demi Moore and Judd Nelsen et al who were the Brat Pack and I guess this group will be going down in history as the Scat Pack. How the standards have dropped! PS Once "it" starts flying, its inevitable I will get hit

As the analogy has already been used, Ed, Merlyn, post either on the topic of the ACLU or PM each other to continue your hammer attacks. Any more direct messages to each other on this thread will be erased, you may comment on the topic, but not each other

What direction will they be facing when handing in the answer sheet What material is their shirt made from? (they all have tags, someone will get it) Find at least one "lone" shoe in the campsite, extra points for more than one (helps clean up the place) BTW emphasis these are "lost" shoes that have been weathered,the scoutmasters boots dont count! Points for Lost soda and beer cans

A lot of times people dont help because they havent been asked and it cant be a general court of honor call for people to help. Ask a specific person to do a specific job, call them if need be but ask them one to one and the response is generally very positive. Looking wistfully at the rear plate of the vehicle leaving the parking lot wont get you very far at all

First I have to say Dana is a great guy and there is no credence to the rumor he repeats everything he says ala Mr Nicely Nicely of Guys and Dolls fame. We had a great talk and hope to contunue to hear from you.

Now, Class, repeat after me All right boys, are you ready for today's lesson? Yes, B-P Then listen to your teacher. Repeat after me... I won't grow up. I won't grow up. I don't wanna go to school. I don't wanna go to school. Just to learn to be a parrot Just to learn to be a parrot And recite a silly rule. And recite a silly rule. If growing up means it would be Beneath my dignity to climb a tree I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow u-p Not me. Not I. Not me. Not me. I won't grow up I won't grow up I don't wanna wear a tie I don't wanna wear a tie Or a serious expression Or a serious expression In the middle of July! In the middle of July! And if it means I must prepare To shoulder burdens with a worried air... I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow u-p Not me! Not I. Not me. So there! Never gonna be a man... I won't! Like to see somebody try... And make me! Anyone who wants to try... And make me Turn into a man. Catch me if you can! I won't grow up I won't grow up I will never even try I will never even try I will do what B-P tells me I will do what B-P tells me And I'll never ask him why! And I'll never ask him why! We won't grow up! We won't grow up! We will never grow a day! We will never grow a day! And if someone tries to make us And if someone tries to make us We will simply run away! We will simply run away! I won't grow up. I won't grow up. No, I promise that I won't No, I promise that I won't I will stay a boy forever I will stay a boy forever And be banished if I don't. And be banished if I don't. And Neverland will always be The home of youth and joy and liberty! I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow u-p Not me, not me, not me, not me, not me... No, sir! Remember, you may get old, but you never ever have to grow up Now, I have to get home, where are those directions? Here they are "... Second star to the right and straight on til morning"

Anger issues?

I may be accused of moral relativism, but 1918? Wasn't that just before women got the right to vote? I think society has come a little ways since then

even if he had the time of his life?

Please, Please, PULLLEEEEEEZE, not a setup, mereley an opportunity for practical application of the scouting principles

"...Although the SPL thinks he is a midevil ninja dragon slayer sometimes..." As long as he doesnt think of adult leaderhip as medieval dragons

Dug, a scout in your Troop HAS to go on a High Advanture trip to make Eagle?

How many software engineers does it take to change a lightbulb? None, thats a hardware issue!

Maybe I live in an isolated world, as has been alleged by some, but can adults old enough to be the parent of a a Tiger claim they didnt know about the gay and God thing? Maybe since I am in the BSA I cant conceive of anyone not knowing about the Gay and God policies, what is your experience? BTW I would sign it

Ed did not post anything unscoutlike, I had enough of his and Bob's back and forth and thought it was time to let everyone post in this thread, thats all. Ed was not unscoutlike

I think I will try a new approach Ed, Bob, I cant send you both the same PM so I will post this here. Enough already, any further discussion you guys have over this topic do it via PM. Any further posting from either of you on this topic will be erased.

Sorry PS, I tried, but I couldnt let that crack go by. After spending plenty of time trying to keep this thread on line, you make that comment about how the republicans characterize the democrats, I thought this thread was on the BSA and whether it's ban on gay members was sectarian or non sectarian. I would ask how the democrats characterize the republicans, wait I know, I have heard its leader Howard Dean talk and he always is 100 accurate and never tries to misrepresent the republicans in anyway, right? Both parties are a good reason why so many people just dont care about politics anymore (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

It occured to me as I was reading this thread, all the comments are what do we do about the scout, what is to be done with the ASM who is creating the problem?

Actually, according to the BSA publication Advancement Committee POlicies and Procedures, it says "the decision of all boards of review is arrived at through discussion and must be unanimous." SO, if you sit on the Board and say no, he can't pass, he doesn't pass. This isnt a majority rules kind of vote. Rhetorical Question: When is enough enough? He passes second class, he is up for First, where is the line drawn, at First? Star? Life? Eagle? Where and when ? As commented, he and the troop, and possible the Distirct/Council are watching, when is enough enough?

Before this becomes a roller coaster of who is right, who is wrong and which side is the best, this is a Scouting Site and I implore all who post on this topic to keep in mind the Scout Law when posting.

Ed, just for yucks, when you give out the extra rain gear, do you make the scout walk like a duck before he receives it? I must be really confused, who wrote they would let scouts "go hungry"? I know I said the adults of the troop I serve were ready to let the scouts get to the campsite without food, but that was because we knew there was a 24 hr food store 10 minutes from where we were. SO, who said let them go hungey

Dug, I am not in favor of placing an age limit on Eagls. If a patrol leader, 12 or 17 yrs old does not meet the established reponsibilities of any postion, its simple, he doesnt advance until he does do a satisfactoy job. But if he does his job, its the work he did that nets him advancement, not his age. I undeerstand a lad of 14 wont have the length and breadth of a 16 yrs old's experiences. But the BSA requiments dont talk about experiences, they talk about things to do do and when they are done. And I mean done as they should, we have an Eagle.

Ed, you are 100% right, Leadership was shown. The Directing style of leadership which as you point out is very effective at times and at other times the best way to go. Now, take a look a the members of the troop you serve. Think of their daily routine, parents, school, sports (maybe) jobs, etc. What style of leadership do you think they are most frequently exposed to? You have to get up at 7 to get to school, you have to pass this test, do this assignemt, to get a good grade, you have to do 100 laps a day to be a champion, etc. All are factors in producing a responsible adult and there is nothing, and I mean nothing wrong with the directive style of leadership. It is most efficent and does get results. There are also other styles of Leadership, Coaching, Delegating and Supporting ( Hope I got this right). They take more time, arent near as efficient, but kids just dont get much of an opportunity to see these and more importantly, practice them. So, the kids didnt want to cook breakfast, one kid decides to make a single size portion. If I was the leader I may have asked what was going on. May have asked for a weinie my self and stood back to see how long it would take the kids to get moving. All BSA related campouts I have been on have had some sort of progam. Watch to see if the program unfolds. We may ask when somehting needs to happen But then we watch it happen. A few years back we had a campout planned. Orienteering weekend. There was so much emphasis by the PLC to be sure sompass and map skills were worked on and everyone had a compass, they forgot to plan for food. So, the adults, noted it and told each other, not a word about the food. We got to camp, topo's were distributed, the next days activites were schduled abd somebody asked for bug juice, then the lights came on. They had everything but food. Stoves, pans, no food. Well, the PLC sent a crew to the local store for a midnight food run. When they asked the adults why we didnt say anything, the response was, we wanted to see how long it would take for you to notice. The next response was, we knew we would be going here (the supermarket) and knew it was 10 minutes from camp. Adults nevr mentioned it, but food was not forgotten again

Bug, we keep having this discussion because there are those who think they can improve upon the BSA program by adding to it, silly ain't it?

Ewwwww!