King Ding Dong

Yes you should be. It is just a method.

So why not the non-HA big trips? If the boys can plan it, fund it, execute it, why not? I don't agree with how some of the mega troops do things where the parents run and fund everything like a mini army. But those of us who raise our own money and do our own planning, why not do a few big trips every year or so? Fluoridation ?

I am all for sewing skills for the boys. They should be in First Class or at least a MB. I bet they are required in SeaScouts or should be. A sewing kit is as standard for a sailor as a first aid kit.

Baptists used to be huge supporters of freedom of religion, that is until they became the majority in many states.

So why not the non-HA big trips? If the boys can plan it, fund it, execute it, why not? I don't agree with how some of the mega troops do things where the parents run and fund everything like a mini army. But those of us who raise our own money and do our own planning, why not do a few big trips every year or so? MB, what happened to Peter Sellers ?

The same reason people buy 90 inch plasma screens for their bedroom, have a $6,000 Internet connected Kohler toilet with Bluetooth, drive a Hummer, and dogs lick their balls. Because they can.

Laser tag is a prohibited activity by BSA, not smart to mention that at a roundtable. Another troop I was looking at in NE was an outdoor machine. The dads were all avid outdoorsmen and certified NRA whatevers. That troop was always fishing, boating and HUNTING. I am sure not as an official troop event, just a bunch of friends going hunting. Advancement was not a priority for them, having fun was. Every troop has their own culture, some focus more on civic trips like to DC and museums, some go rouge and hunt, some focus on Eagle by 13/14 before the fumes hit. My current troop seems to fall in the later but advancement still depends on the boy. The mom of one is a teacher and he was Eagle at 13 and at 14 has over 50 MB. I sat on a BOR for for a 1st year who just made Star, been camping with him twice, he knows his stuff. He also has an Eagle older brother and is determined to make Eagle faster than him. That kind of ambition is not a bad thing. A lot of success in life can be attributed to your connections. If the SM or CC is buddies with the Mayor or Parks director, maybe that troop gets a preferential site at the carnival and who knows maybe the vendor fee is waived. If the CO is a big church with full kitchen facilities maybe the troop has a spaghetti diner and the congregation shows up in support. Maybe they go rouge and serve beer also. Boom, big bucks. Do you think the district or council sends out investigators to police this stuff ? Even if someone rats you out, if your troop made their FOS goal, do you think the DE is going to give a hoot ?

When investigating troopwebhost I saw a lot of amazing stuff. Try ski trip to Swiss Alps, that didn't come from popcorn sales, parents have money. My troop has a diverse economic mix, some in apartments some in McMansions. We cater to the lowest common denominator as best we can. The boys wanted to do a float trip and I priced some canoe rentals on the rivers in southern MO, $35 a day was deemed to much, our campouts are usually $20.00. There is a troop not to far from me that charters buses a few times a year for trips. Part of it has do do with the economic status of the scouts, part with size of troop. Roundtable is great for networking. My troop is not big enough charter a bus, but we have tossed around the idea of finding another similar sized troop and collaborating so maybe we can go to Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon. There needs to be trust and a relationship between leaders to make that work.

Before I relocated recently there was a troop I was really interested in. Suburban town had an annual 4 day carnival and the troop had some "funnel cake" type fried food trailer they set up. Those boys did nothing for 4 days in June but man that trailer. They made enough money in those four days to pay for the entire program year. Everything. Recharter, campouts, summer camp, COH, high adventure for the older scouts. No popcorn sales, registration fees, nothing. Someone at some point made the investment in that trailer and it paid off big time. Makes you think.

I am new to the Troop but am told the older boys make one high adventure trip a year. This year it SeaBase. Next year summit. I was told SeaBase would cost $900 per Scout. Driving 20 hours to get there. Yeah if the boys want to go they need to work for it. This stuff is planned well over a year in advance. Popcorn money, camp cards, wreaths, calendars. It all adds up. Mow some lawns, rake some leaves, paint some walls. Some bring lunch to school everyday. Some give up weed (good), some sell it (bad). Goes really well with Personal Management MB. Some boys don't want to put the effort into it and don't go, some do. Some would rather put that money to the fumes. Whose ideas are these trips ? Well the BSA thought up the programs and just markets them to the Scouts, So technically its the adults. But if you want the boys to have buy in they need to choose what they want to do. Typical with middle to upper middle class troops. More money, more typical.

I think the determining safety factor is height. Are they planning a 20' tower. I would suggest 4 or 6' first. The other thing is the quality of the sticks. Who is going to determine if they are sturdy enough ? Is that person qualified to make that call ? Your best bet is to check and see if your district or Council has a pioneering kit you can check out. Ours does but it requires a one day training class for the leader to get certified with it. Worst case get some video and you can submit it to the Discovery Channel's Modern Marvels: Pioneering Disasters 23 "Scouts Not So Tough Anymore"

Rebel If you are going to go all technical then fine. It is a values program but the outdoors is not a classroom, scouts is not school. The mission and vision statement do not need to say anything about the outdoors. It's all in the name ScOUT. Scouts do not have "restroom facilities" (at least at any scout camp I have been to). They have a latrine. I congratulate you for having such a well adjusted brownie troop. However, the whole camp issue is not something I pulled out of my a@@. The GSUSA leadership thinks your troop is the exception, not the rule. These are statements from GSUSA executives explaining their decisions on why they are selling "rustic" properties and consolidating, so they can build modern facilities with modern conveniences. That mentality severely damaged the BSA in the 70s, there will be a fight to make sure it doesn't come back. Can you explain to me why you think the GSUSA is failing to deliver, if there are all these girls clamoring to do it just like the boys do ?

I guess it come down to why feel the GSUSA is failing. Is it the lack of vision in the leadership or is it a change in the desires of young girls. The boys grumble slightly for a few minutes when we arrive at a camp site and electronics are off in stay in the car but then they completely forget about them after a few minutes, because we are letting them be boys. From my limited research of the issue online that does not appear to be the case with girls in general. Maybe, just maybe if they started out as Tigers and were in a quality unit with a strong outdoor program their attitudes would be different. Do not underestimate the power of the smartphone.

I see two problems with those thoughts. Cub scouts is the only family oriented program, that ends at BS. Your solution creates a 10-13 year old doughnut hole. The BS program is an Outdoor program with some family, community and faith. I would be very interested in learning about in the atrocious camping regulations the GSUSA has. I tried a google search but all I came up with was that girls want flush toilets, climate controlled cabins, WIFI and other modern technologies at their camps, so they are selling properties to create more modern camps. (Sound like a Beaches or Sandals all inclusive resort). Why don't they just have a sleepover and call it a day. Sigh. That mentality is why I suspect there will be even more resistance to letting girls in the BSA than in letting in homosexuals.

Strong in this one, the power of the Cookie is, indeed.

It never ceases to amaze me that people think that Christianity will forever and always be the majority religion in the US. If these people get their way and establish the US as a theocracy what happens when say some other religion like radical Islam gains enough power here. I for one do not want my descendants to have to walk around in burkas or get acid thrown on their face to preserve honor. They just can't get it through their heads that the separation of church and state preserves their rights to practice their religion, not prevent it. My only conclusion from all this nonsense is that like Sarah Palin they truly believe they will see the end of days in their lifetime. So what happens to future generations does not matter, they only live in the moment.

Problem one: parents agree to be partners when they sign the application. If they do not want to contribute to the Pack, there is no Pack. Go find another Pack. Have a parent meeting, list all the activities. If parents do not sign up to organize, erase the activity. No Pinewood Derby this year! If the list gets to sparse, you cannot deliver a cub program. The Pack absolutly has the right to require parents to volunteer their time and take a position of responsibility. Go find another Pack with parents that actually care about the program. Problem 2: You expect the BSA to develope a program to channel girls interests into citizenship. Do you think they are qualified to do that ? If you think girls interests are the same as boys then I guess they are. Problem 3: Where do you expect the BSA to find the resources to develop such a program ? If the Girl Scouts want to be absorbed by the BSA, I am sure National will listen to their proposal. I sure would welcome the opportunity to sell cookies rather than crummy popcorn. Don't expect the BSA to change their rules to accommodate atrocious ones developed by GSUSA. Problem 4: You need to accept the fact that once you have children garages cease to be a place for motor vehicles. Unless you are willing to shell out 1-2 k for a shed. Problem 5: in a pack every family is responsible for their own camping gear. You cannot have a non functioning Pack Committe and be the Pack Quartermaster. I am going through many of the same problems with my pack. We are not the Baby Sitters of America. I demand a quality program for my son and if the other parents are not willing to help deliver that program, there is not going to be a program and they can go find a pack that is willing to accept them on those terms. I know I can find a pack willing to accept what I have to offer. I bet you can also.

I thought only registered members could wear a uniform. If you are a registered adult member you must have a position code. What position code is "scout mom" ? I didn't realize registered adult leaders did not have to conform to the Insignia Guide.

KA, I couldn't agree with you more. I am a certified YMCA swim instructor and Red Cross Lifeguard and there is stuff in the Swimming MB pamphlet that still perplexes me. I have asked every swim coach or instructor I know and eve certified Red Cross Lifeguard Instructors about the "trudgeon" stroke. No one has ever heard of it. I looked it up on Wikipedia and YouTube and now I get it, but it is ancient history. Some guidance would be extremely helpful. I have noticed they are starting to add some "tips" at least with the new Nova Awards pamphlets.

Unless you have an extremely small troop, taking them all to the grocery store at the same time is just not good citizenship. It is just rude to everyone else that is there shopping. It is bad enough when a "family pack" of 5 or more mosey down an isle blocking everyone else. A whole troop disrupting all the shoppers would be worthy of a peopleofwalmart.com post.

It wouldn't of course. It is just lazy way of fixing the problems with Girl Scouts.

Did on of the Scouts cut a corner off your Chit ?

I suppose BSA assumes if you are a MBC, you are an expert in the field and the MB pamphlet should be adequate. I know they have certification requirements for a few of them such as canoeing but not for something really benign like Nuclear Science (what could possibly go wrong there ?) I know a bunch of teenagers that could run circles around the monkey they have coding scouting.org, but benefiting the BSA does not fit the Eagle Service Project rules. Oh, well.

Stick to the Insignia Guide. Don't ever pay attention to Scoutstuff.org. They just want to sell stuff. They sent out an email last week for a Mothers Day promotion, with a Scout Mom patch and a picture of it right on the sleeve under the flag. Unbelievable. http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsa/events/mother-s-day.html?dir=asc&order=position&SRC=ET&ET_CID=ET_4425_mothersday_2_04292013&Page=Mother%27s+Day&ET_RID=&gen_cid=31618602&gen_rid=399029409

I do not know about your Council, ours charges $60 for a full week of day camp. 9am -3:30 pm. Or less for a twilight 5:30-8:00. Don't see much fundraising going on with those prices. 1 night Dad and Lad or Mom and Me is $35/person. a bit more but includes 2 meals, tents and use of the camp pool. I really don't see this as a huge moneymaker for the Council.