Pack18Alex

The standard GSUSA Troop is basically a single level patrol, similar to a Cub Scout Den at the younger level, a Boy Scout Patrol at the older level. GSUSA is "girl's decide" at all levels, basically a sort of girl-led approach.

GSUSA has a multi-level "group" where they could all be "Troops" within the same numbered group. They are often smaller, but occasionally they run more like a Pack/Troop, with age level Patrols doing age-specific activities. That's how my wife's Troop plans to operate. They registered as multi-level, but started with Daisy's because she required two leaders/level to operate. Next year they'll have Brownies/Daisy's, and recruit from there. Goal is to fill all levels adding one every year or two, leaders permitting.

The Service Unit is NOT analogous to a District, it's a mess.

Basically, since the Troops are small (3-12 girls), they do things at the service level that we'd do at the Pack/Troop level. Outings, activities, etc., are often planned by Service Unit Volunteers so they can get critical mass. The leaders develop a bit of a Service Unit identity, the Girls not so much.

Their analogy to a District is an Area, a Council is divided into Areas, and the Area has two professional positions (at least in our Council), essentially a Membership Professional (the recruiting side of the DE job), and the Volunteer Professional (the liaison side of the DE job).

As a result, the Service Unit Meetings may, or may not, have a Council professional at them. My wife's is attended by a Council Pro (her Area's Volunteer professional), but only because the troop she volunteers in is in the Service Unit.

This has the advantage of small service units aiming for monthly events (our District does 3 per year, tops). It has the drawback that if you need something handled by a Pro, you need to drive to Council, not just attend the SUM.

You could absolutely start up a new troop, and if your Church will house you, join it. Alternatively, if you aren't worried about the finances, just join their group and form a Patrol. Technically, the Patrol method is used in GSUSA starting at Juniors, but I don't see any reason that anyone would care if you had two Daisy Patrols, the standard GSUSA response is "do whatever you want."

The reason for GSUSA's setup is cookie sales. The bulk of the "revenues" received in a Unit are the cookies. To avoid Sales Tax issues and payment issues, all GS Troops operate under Council's EIN. They have a Charter Partner, but it doesn't own it like a CO, and it's more informal.

Because you operating under Council's 501©3, they check up on the finances. BSA leaves that to the CO, since it's the CO's status on the line. Since most CO's are Churches, and don't file with the IRS, nobody really cares.

The bulk of the money running through my Pack Account is NOT product sales, even with our bumping up fundraising. Dues, Activity Fees, etc., form the majority, with fundraising running smaller.

Keep in mind, for our fundraisers, we get 30%-50% of the revenue. Cookie Sales and other GSUSA Council Fundraisers (ours did nuts/candy), only provide about 15% for the Troop. As a result, sales tax and Unrelated Business Income Taxes would be a MAJOR concern if Girl Scout Troops operated under their own EIN.

I disagree baggss.

 

Yes Yes I am familiar with the crew rules and Youth Protection. What I disagree with is it becoming a family outdoor adventure. That was never the intent of Venturing.

 

So what we have is Venturing becoming the new Cub Scouting????? Family camping and all...... Not a good thing.

I was chatting with the advisor, and we were talking about how, in some ways, Venturing is more like Cub Scouts. Not the parental involvement, it's WAY less, but in the outings.

In Cub Scouting, most of our campouts are connected to an activity, we don't camp to camp. We do one hiking/camping trip/year, and the rest are more activity, oriented (Camporee, Cuboree, etc). At the Venture level, you're camping for an activity. Sure it's high adventure and not a youth program, but it's still "camping to go canoeing in the morning" you're not camping to learn to tie knots and practice camping.

The Boy Scout program is the only one where the camping itself is the focus. Also, Venturing/Cub Scouts are similar in that the meat of the program is in meetings, and the outings are raw fun. In the Boy Scout program, it seems that the meetings are mostly to learn the basics, but the real learning is the camping itself.

Just my observation.

Jblake47, The scout has no obligation to allow you or anyone else to examine them on their religious beliefs and if you 'think' they have misled you, then it is possible that part, if not all, of the responsibility for that is yours. There is no place that I can find in BSA documents that state that there is a responsibility for any adult leader to judge or examine the religious beliefs of a boy. Their beliefs are theirs, personally, and not the business of anyone else. If they've signed their name, the best thing for the rest of us to do is to butt out of their personal business.

What I find frustrating is that IRS issues vague letters, with words like substantially in there. It would be nice if the BSA would draft a CAREFUL letter to the IRS governing what is substantial. Often the IRS picks thresholds like 50%.

 

It's possible that a request that would permit 40% of the money in the Scout Account, to be used towards that individual's participation in Scouting, and 60% in the Scout Unit general fund for the mission, would fly.

 

Substantially, the money goes to the unit. The 40% isn't an excess benefit, because it's limited to Scouting.

 

Somewhere in 8 figures of salary, someone can think to call a tax lawyer, instead of depending on volunteers at their local Church/Synagogue to do the heavy lifting.

I think BSA would like to ditch Scout Accounts and have everything go to fund Unit programming under the belief that this will strengthen unit finances and free them up to charge Council Dues on top of National Dues. Scout Accounts make this harder.

I mean, banning Scout Accounts is extreme, while it's possible that a restricted form could be okay.

Look at some of the 501©4 nonsense… Cannot be primarily "political" defined as endorsing/supporting candidates has been ruled as permitting 49% "political" and 51% "issue advocacy."

Primarily and substantially have meaning, they don't mean any.

My Pack Uniform says Pack Committee Chair. Our Troop CC wears a uniform every week to the Troop meetings with a Troop Committee Chair Patch.

Adult leaders should be in uniform. Our treasurer doesn't wear one, but she's in her Girl Scout Uniform since she's also the Girl Scout Leader.

Folks,

 

1) THANK YOU for all the comments, ideas, everything as it does help tremendously. Also thank you for letting me vent on this topic.

 

2) I know I am too close to this topic to see clearly. Believe ti or not, I know I am a bad choice for the UC position, told the DC my concerns and said I would do it until they found another. They did find someone in August, a former committee member from the troop who left town for about 2 years to take care of her dying mom. I don't know what happened, but I was asked in Dec to help them out with the charter, a UC duty.

 

More later.

I was told we were EXTREMELY lucky.

Unique circumstance, as the only Jewish Pack/Troop in our District, a senior Jewish Scouter was thrilled to serve as a resource to us.

Folks,

 

1) THANK YOU for all the comments, ideas, everything as it does help tremendously. Also thank you for letting me vent on this topic.

 

2) I know I am too close to this topic to see clearly. Believe ti or not, I know I am a bad choice for the UC position, told the DC my concerns and said I would do it until they found another. They did find someone in August, a former committee member from the troop who left town for about 2 years to take care of her dying mom. I don't know what happened, but I was asked in Dec to help them out with the charter, a UC duty.

 

More later.

I was told we were EXTREMELY lucky.

Unique circumstance, as the only Jewish Troop, a senior Jewish Scouter was thrilled to serve as a resource to us.

What I find frustrating is that IRS issues vague letters, with words like substantially in there. It would be nice if the BSA would draft a CAREFUL letter to the IRS governing what is substantial. Often the IRS picks thresholds like 50%.

 

It's possible that a request that would permit 40% of the money in the Scout Account, to be used towards that individual's participation in Scouting, and 60% in the Scout Unit general fund for the mission, would fly.

 

Substantially, the money goes to the unit. The 40% isn't an excess benefit, because it's limited to Scouting.

 

Somewhere in 8 figures of salary, someone can think to call a tax lawyer, instead of depending on volunteers at their local Church/Synagogue to do the heavy lifting.

An IRS letter ruling is a different beast, and has some degree of validity.

You don't want 5 people calling the IRS, you want a Tax Lawyer drafting a careful and specific letter that gets them the answer they want, that people can rely on.

I know my CO's troop really struggles with some of the intensive camping stuff... not because they are parlor scouts, but because the numbers are small, and the Jewish Unit, plus Florida's weather, presents a bunch of challenges.

Can't setup a camp or cook after Friday at nightfall, so it's often a race to get Campsites up.

Can't build/construct anything on Saturday, carrying items becomes an issue in Back Country, etc.

So the obvious thing would be Winter/Spreak/Summer Break. The Jewish Day Schools are on a different calendar than the Public Schools, no overlap for breaks. Summer is simply not really camp weather in South Florida. Extremely hot is common in the country, but our Mosquitos and Noseums are out of control in the summer.

Combined with poor adult leadership (the have a great SM and CC, but the rest of the positions are mostly empty), they end up with too simple a program during the year, and using Merit Badge College and Summer Camp for merit badge mills for advancement. By the time my son crosses over, I expect to see more stuff, as we're pushing the Cub Scout program to be more intense, but it's a process.

Every unit has challenges. I understand people skirt requirements, and that's not ideal. In the end, are we turning out good citizens with a sense of self accomplishment, duty to God, and duty to Country? If so, we're having a positive impact on the world, even if our programs are underwhelming in an ideal sense.

What I find frustrating is that IRS issues vague letters, with words like substantially in there. It would be nice if the BSA would draft a CAREFUL letter to the IRS governing what is substantial. Often the IRS picks thresholds like 50%.

It's possible that a request that would permit 40% of the money in the Scout Account, to be used towards that individual's participation in Scouting, and 60% in the Scout Unit general fund for the mission, would fly.

Substantially, the money goes to the unit. The 40% isn't an excess benefit, because it's limited to Scouting.

Somewhere in 8 figures of salary, someone can think to call a tax lawyer, instead of depending on volunteers at their local Church/Synagogue to do the heavy lifting.

Well, I assume that the troop has an Eagle Rank Chart or similar thing. Having done all his BOR there, and earning his Eagle there, he likely wants to be listed with other Eagle Scouts that he came up in Scouting with. Sure, some of it is the friends since Cubs that will also be there. He might be with the new Troop going forward, but he wants to be an Eagle in the same troop as his friends.

 

I would suggest reaching out to the two DEs. Tell them that your son is having problems with another Scout, that Scout is the son of the CC, and attempts to resolve have failed, and your son has transferred troops for his active Scouting. He wants to complete his EBOR with his old troop, and you want to know what needs to be done so his EBOR can take place and he can move on to earn his Eagle Palms with his new Troop.

 

Send it to BOTH District Executives in an email, and they can work out the logistics of the EBOR.

 

Second, why not skip most of the meetings for Troop 1, stay on the roster until he hits Eagle, and meet with Troop 2. Troop 2 is his primary unit.

 

If the District Executives can't coordinate the EBOR, resubmit your paperwork with Troop 2. Get it done, get on with it.

Since it's a cross-district issue with paperwork submitted to Council, there may be more people involved than just the advancement chair.

Caveat, I have no idea what is actually involved in an EBOR. But I'd be worried with crazy CC Mom holding back advancement paperwork and sabotaging it, so I'd make sure higher ups know that something is going on and make things work to not screw over the youth... especially if you need to appeal something, best to have it in writing.

When I did the Pack budget, I put subsidies in the events out of the Pack Budget. Our fundraising goes towards capital needs, and $150-$200 per event, so essentially we undercharge for food/registration and eat it from the Pack Budget. The Pack Budget comes 50%-50% from dues and fundraising (up from 100% dues two years ago).

 

One of the leaders asked me about this, didn't understand why we were subsidizing the campouts from the fundraising. I told him that the people working the fundraisers, serving as leaders, and attending the campouts is largely the same people. The boys that go camping are gung-ho for the program. The boys that show up for a weekly meeting are having fun, but it's not a core focus of their week.

 

When I keep the costs down, we have better attendance. More attendance means more Scouts retain. Are there families that camp and don't fundraise... I guess, one or two. Are there families that fundraise and don't camp? Yeah, one or two. But in general, it's the same group.

 

We have some families that can't pay dues, we ask that they participate in fundraisers and we'll take care of them via campership. We don't use Scout Accounts, we tried, it was a tracking nightmare and didn't seem to serve much purpose.

 

But I have a weird demographic. 80% of my kids are upper-middle class, a good chunk are in private religious schooling. Our food costs have to be managed VERY carefully (kosher food gets expensive REAL fast if you don't economize). It's easier to carry the families that can't pay than to do complicated Scout Accounts.

 

Also, the boys seem gung ho for prizes. They aren't gung ho to save their parents $50 on dues or summer camp.

Cub Scout Day camp costs $115/week if registered early.

So it's the few broke parents that would benefit. I just don't have the energy for a third fundraiser. It a good idea from the "a Scout is Thrifty" point of view, it's a non-started from the Pack18Alex spends plenty of time on Scouting and doesn't want to spend more.

But I'll consider it, it's worth looking into. The boys in need of Campership are also the ones traveling 30-45 minutes to be with our Pack, so the fundraiser isn't terribly convenient.

Well, I assume that the troop has an Eagle Rank Chart or similar thing. Having done all his BOR there, and earning his Eagle there, he likely wants to be listed with other Eagle Scouts that he came up in Scouting with. Sure, some of it is the friends since Cubs that will also be there. He might be with the new Troop going forward, but he wants to be an Eagle in the same troop as his friends.

I would suggest reaching out to the two DEs. Tell them that your son is having problems with another Scout, that Scout is the son of the CC, and attempts to resolve have failed, and your son has transferred troops for his active Scouting. He wants to complete his EBOR with his old troop, and you want to know what needs to be done so his EBOR can take place and he can move on to earn his Eagle Palms with his new Troop.

Send it to BOTH District Executives in an email, and they can work out the logistics of the EBOR.

Second, why not skip most of the meetings for Troop 1, stay on the roster until he hits Eagle, and meet with Troop 2. Troop 2 is his primary unit.

If the District Executives can't coordinate the EBOR, resubmit your paperwork with Troop 2. Get it done, get on with it.

The only possible issue is the sign off. There is nothing unethical in have the cash fronted and the loan paid off. When I took over pack finances I and a few other leaders bought things before the fundraising money was in. Booked it as reimbursements owed, and when cash came in we were reimbursed. I'm not sure why a teenager should be held to a cash only funding model. Funding overruns and securing loans is part of real world finance. Nothing unethical about fundraising and the cash going to the parents to pay off the loan. They can choose to write off the note as a donation or not. But he should have the paper trail. Sometimes is harder to raise funds when the job is done, sometimes easier because people know the work is done as opposed to planned.

When I did the Pack budget, I put subsidies in the events out of the Pack Budget. Our fundraising goes towards capital needs, and $150-$200 per event, so essentially we undercharge for food/registration and eat it from the Pack Budget. The Pack Budget comes 50%-50% from dues and fundraising (up from 100% dues two years ago).

One of the leaders asked me about this, didn't understand why we were subsidizing the campouts from the fundraising. I told him that the people working the fundraisers, serving as leaders, and attending the campouts is largely the same people. The boys that go camping are gung-ho for the program. The boys that show up for a weekly meeting are having fun, but it's not a core focus of their week.

When I keep the costs down, we have better attendance. More attendance means more Scouts retain. Are there families that camp and don't fundraise... I guess, one or two. Are there families that fundraise and don't camp? Yeah, one or two. But in general, it's the same group.

We have some families that can't pay dues, we ask that they participate in fundraisers and we'll take care of them via campership. We don't use Scout Accounts, we tried, it was a tracking nightmare and didn't seem to serve much purpose.

But I have a weird demographic. 80% of my kids are upper-middle class, a good chunk are in private religious schooling. Our food costs have to be managed VERY carefully (kosher food gets expensive REAL fast if you don't economize). It's easier to carry the families that can't pay than to do complicated Scout Accounts.

Also, the boys seem gung ho for prizes. They aren't gung ho to save their parents $50 on dues or summer camp.

Scouts should come and have fun, or they'll leave.

That said, there is a purpose to this program, and we should be asking ourselves, are we accomplishing the purpose.

Young kids LOVE television and video games, it's a quick and easy brain stimulation. The harder work, going out and helping others, is more work to get the same stimulation. We push the latter because it makes them better people.

Other ways to get hormone dumps and brain stimulation? Smoking, drinking, drugs... all will stimulate the brain as a quick and easy fix. Getting the same "high" from clean living is more work, the short cut is to use chemicals to stimulate.

Just showing up, lettering others doing the work, and having fun? It's the equivalent of playing video games or using drugs for the high, it's a quick fix, but ultimately less meaningful.

Our goal is to mold young men into men, men that will do the hard work necessary to accomplish something meaningful. There is nothing wrong with some purposeless fun, any more than there is anything wrong with enjoying a cold beer and watching a football game. But if your only enjoyment in life is beer and football, it's an empty life.

Our troop had to have adult leadership step in to push advancement. The boys seemed content to go to merit badge college and summer camp, collect merit badges, and just kind of hang out at meetings. You had boys 3-4 years into the program with a dozen merit badges and a tenderfoot patch. They collected PORs that didn't mean anything. They were having fun, but without the feeling of accomplishment, the troop was shrinking, not growing.

New Scoutmaster, new Adult led push for advancement, took away merit badge college since the boys weren't advancing... A few months later, some fresh first class Scouts, Scouts planning their path to Eagle. Scouts coming to the Pack when asked to teach the Cubs. Turning Scouting from a video game to a scouting program (with advancement as a core component) and the Troop is growing with new members, and the Cubs are excited to cross over as they move up.

Many here have far more experience in the nuts and bolts of HOW to do it, I have no advice on that. But if you encourage the boys to just "do what they want," that's no different from a parent of a young child sticking them in front of the TV with ice cream and mac & cheese, because that's what they want. I don't know how you do it, but you want to teach them to make good choices. Learning new skills and helping others is a good choice, being lazy, leaning on others, and doing whatever feels good is a bad choice. It's not as bad as waking up, smoking pot, working a menial job that pays enough to cover the rent and more pot, but it's NOT as good as being the leader that serves their family and their community.

We're a values organization that uses the outdoors as a classroom, NOT a camping club with uniforms.

The average American moves every 5 years. That average includes people like myself (one location for 9 years and counting), my parents (29 years and counting), and people that move every few months. Given that BSA needs policies for everyone, it's a different story.

That said, while they insist that you fill out a new application for each position, it isn't real. When you put in re-charter, you can assign new positions to people. Since the Charter is signed by the Unit Leader, Institution Head, and Council, that is the equivalent of a re-application. Now what I can't figure out is why the Committee Chair doesn't sign the Re-charter, when the Committee Chair is required to approve Adult Leaders during the rest of the year. Also, the COR can sign on behalf of the CO, but doesn't sign the re-charter, I guess once/year they want the boss to sign as well.

In addition, if you are moving between Units in your CO, or being added, you can "promote" the person from one unit to the other, and everything carries over. I think you still need to fill out an Adult Application though.

The broken IT systems that BSA uses is startling, but it's part of the financial problems. The lack of integration doesn't help. I don't understand why we can't within myscouting.org and have all the signoffs electronic, but that's the system in place.

I'm lucky. We charge just over $100 in dues, and we charge it in September. Almost everyone gives me a check in September. A few reminder emails and the money comes in in October. A few parents can't pay, I budgeted "Campership" for them, we planned to not fully collect.

For our parent body, it's more effective for the unit to just write off dues from a few people than come up with convoluted structures around Popcorn sales.

12 year old boys are learning to be men. Puberty is taking its toll, and girls have gone from something of limited interest into completely sexual objects. Part of our molding boys into men is to help them shape their views during this time period.

1st Class is a serious rank, from there it's straight on to Eagle if he wants it. Whether you do a serious 6 month delay, or a slap on the wrist for a few weeks delay, you'll be communicating that this is not how men behave towards women.

Teaching him that this behavior is not the proper behavior for a gentleman is a great thing you can do for him. Punishing him is his guardian's responsibility, but shaping his character through scouting is the goal of the program.

Looks like some work on being Friendly, Courteous, Kind and Clean is in order.

I wouldn't wait 6 months, I'd tell him that you'll reconvene in a month and see if he is improving in his living the Scout Law. A monthly review process gives him an opportunity to get constant feedback on if he's getting better.

We end up with a fresh round of recruiting in January, there is a big Jewish Community event then. As a result, we sometimes get new Scouts. So we're all wrapping up our Rank Advancement in January/February for Blue and Gold (was scheduled for mid-Feb, we moved to late-Feb to give one Den a little more time). This way, if new Scouts join in January, they can do Bobcat for Blue and Gold.

For us, February - May is filled with our Council Camporee, our District Cuboree, Pinewood Derby, Space Derby, Camp Cards, and electives, etc. So our Fall Semester is rank advancement, our Spring Semester is exciting fun activities at the Pack, District, and Council level.

You see some of this reflected in JTE requirements. For the Calendar year, they expect Rank Advancement, so remaining Scouts should Rank Advance in the Spring. New Scouts come-in during the Spring/Summer/Fall and Rank Advance via Bobcat.

Technically speaking, a Scout can earn their rank at any time. However, since most rely on the Den to do so, they need to have time for it. If Dens start in October, you have October, November, December, January, and February for Rank Advancement. Given 2 Meetings/Month, that's time for 10 Den Achievements. For Tigers: 5 Go See-Its, 5 Den Projects, plus the home achievements. For Wolf/Bear, you do 10 Achievements, and 2 for homework. For Webelos, that's plenty of time.

For Webelos, it's weather permitting, but that gives them time to Rank Advance and/or finish up Arrow of Light. You also have boys ready to cross over and have some time with the troop before Summer Camp. Pretty sure that Boy Scout Summer Camp needs drive the entire discussion.

Doing Popcorn, the fundraiser is taken care of, and it's easy to plan for. For cubs, where I need family buy in, it's easy to give them an order form, some Show-and-Sell Popcorn, and send them off to sell. For the Troop, where the boys are more autonomous, you can do more advanced fundraisers.

That said, if I want to run a business, I'd rather put the time into my business than a low margin "Scout Business" to fund the troop. Popcorn was easy, a volunteer managed spreadsheets to track, the Scouts sold the items, and the money just flowed in. That required less business development time, and each boy put the time he was willing to to get the prize he wanted.

I call BS on the economy......It is an excuse for people not to spend money if they don't want to. Looking at the boys in my troop and the gifts they received this year......the economy is just fine.

 

 

I you want any other fundraising approved you had better sell popcorn first, at least round here, otherwise you other fundraising opportunity will be denied, well that is if you actually apply for it thru council.

 

 

Far as fundraisers go......Last day camp, they charged$85 per, with a budget of $15 per including Tshirt, Then the Tshirts had sponsorship logos all over the back, so they are making $70 per scout, or how about the $15 BS camporee with a $3 patch, donated site and porta johns....

 

They can cry me a river about money and fundraising.

If you are curious where the money goes, join the committee that plans the events, you'll see where it goes.

I know that our Council and Districts makes money on the Camporees/Cuborees, but they tend to lose money through the year. We did a bowling night for Cubs. It was a good price (10/participant), and the money was split with the bowling ally.

But Council takes money to run. They pay our DE who works his tail off. They have people in Council office that process forms, run the scout store, handle insurance, etc. We can all pay dues, or we can over pay for profitable events.

I know that for my Unit, we subsidize the camp-outs and activities, which gets us more participation than if we over charged. So we lose $100-$250 on each campout, vs. make $50-$100. Those losses are covered via dues and fundraising.

We think that this is a good way to build unit retention, but it's neither right or wrong, it works for us.

At the district level, either we fundraise at the district level and subsidize events, or we don't fundraise and we overcharge events to pay into District that way. If the goal is retention, you fundraise. If the goal is fairness, you overcharge.

With fundraising, you ask those that are gung-ho to work hard to reward those that don't work hard, but you retain better. Without fundraise, you ask those that benefit to pay to cover the costs.

There are about 20 line items on a BSA Event Budget form. Money gets spent.

A Constitutional Convention could in theory offer a new Constitution... The original Constitutional Convention was called to amend the Articles of Confederacy.

I'm not sure that you could call a Constitutional Convention for the sole purpose of offering Amendments and NOT have it be open ended.

I think that if you repealed Direct Election of Senators, the whole situation would solve itself within 10 years. That one was a well intentioned reform that has totally destroyed Federalism.

Do a lot of units do Camp Cards? I keep hearing about them but have yet to see one in person myself. Is it a popular fundraiser?

One of the items on our camp card is $5 off at a supermarket, so the easiest sale is to stand in front of the supermarket and sell them. It's a good fundraiser, and since the cost is pennies (to produce the card), it's a good one.

50% payout to unit, 50% to council, it's a good way to fund council. Since the goal of them is the boys to earn their way to camp, it's doubly good for council, because the boys raise money to spend on council.

I call BS on the economy......It is an excuse for people not to spend money if they don't want to. Looking at the boys in my troop and the gifts they received this year......the economy is just fine.

 

 

I you want any other fundraising approved you had better sell popcorn first, at least round here, otherwise you other fundraising opportunity will be denied, well that is if you actually apply for it thru council.

 

 

Far as fundraisers go......Last day camp, they charged$85 per, with a budget of $15 per including Tshirt, Then the Tshirts had sponsorship logos all over the back, so they are making $70 per scout, or how about the $15 BS camporee with a $3 patch, donated site and porta johns....

 

They can cry me a river about money and fundraising.

Look at the 990 for your Council.